Fantastic 40+ thread - part 6

[Curlylox]

Over here everyone

Hello lovely people. Italian hope all well with FET and Miasmummy hope you are feeling less numb now.

Hi Twirly, I can relate to your situation and wanting to be grateful for what I have and not insensitive to others. I'm 47 and lucky enough to have a grown up DD {her birthday today :)} she is wonderful and for years I longed for a bigger family. In my 30s I had IVF with exDH (azoospermia) still remember 2 embies we lost but I know it is nothing like the pain of losing a child.

When I met DP in 40s I thought I was too ancient but he is childless and desperate to be a dad so we started down the investigation route and egg donation was suggested quite early on. It has taken me a while to get used to the idea and looking after his Mum who has dementia has made it hard to pursue.

I started using Duofertility last year and it has given me a lot of information about my cycle as well as being a lot easier than other methods of temping. I'm just mentioning this in case it's relevant for you - its a lot cheaper than IVF!

Their report led to us going for a fertility MOT and this may have saved my life as an ovarian tumour was seen on the scan. After a lot of discussion I was given fertility sparing surgery and I'm getting over that and trying to get some fitness back. I need to process the emotional impact of all this and try to get some clarity about whether it is right to try egg donation. Meanwhile watching the Duofertility chart and hoping for a natural miracle.

Isxx

Can I just ask those taking DHEA - do you take it after Ovulation? (I heard that this might not be a good idea...) xxx

Thank you all for the advice - I started various B vits today and agnus castus, have a GP appt on Friday when I will see if they will do bloods on the right days (if I can work out when the right days are!). Have bought a new thermometer as the last one must have been wonky given that I was at sub-zero temps every time I tried it.

Isabeller - I will look at those charts that you mention too, thank you!

Hi Beangrower. I took DHEA for the first 2 weeks of my cycle and stopped at ovulation as I'd also heard it was not advisable.

Hippy I took 25mg of DHEA each day; when I upped it to 50mg I noticed my hair falling out . This told me that I probably had some of my own DHEA still and I just needed a top-up. Others may need more/less. Fertility clinics recommend 25x3 per day (75mgs) but I'm not sure which brand they are using, what the content is and what the patients' general count is. The recommended dose for memory and muscle loss (as opposed to improving egg quality) is only 5mgs a day (with over the counter brands). Jolls did you say you'd used it last year? How did you get on with it?

Twirly I know how you feel. I'm 46 in a couple of weeks, I've got 3 lovely DCs and felt guilty that I wanted a fourth when others were trying hard for their first. BB made me feel better, though. Is this little one number 5 or 6, BB? And Diege will be wanting her 6th soon, as she likes even numbers . We're all entitled to want a baby, whatever the circumstances. Luck and good timing, in equal measure, seem to be the only deciding factors for whether or not you get one.

I've resigned myself to buying a people carrier and hearing all the jokes about catholics/plymouth brethren. My boss is horrified that we'll need to buy a 5-bed house soon. I'm unrepentent. I can always watch Cheaper By the Dozen if I need to feel better about my choices!

Hi
I used DHEA 3x25 a day for about 6 months. Used it throughout the cycle. I only stopped in December because when my period arrived again I went on strike on taking pills; I'm not a easy swallower and the AC, DHEA, extra Folic and Preg Vits were getting RIGHT ON MY NERVES!!!

So ironically when I got my BFP in Jan, I'd been on absolutely no supplements at all for a month... cue hurriedly downing the Folic and Vits.

I've definitely suffered with increased hair loss, but my hair was fairly thick to start with so I wasn't that fussed, and more facial hair (which I'm prone to anyway) so me and my tweezer have been closer than ever...

I was recommended DHEA by the private clinic consultant I saw, and separately by a client of hers who's a friend. The NHS consultant I saw was more cautious saying only that the research on improving egg quality was in its early days and there was little strong evidence at this point.

I remember Gum posting some interesting info on how you should take DHEA to ensure its efficacy and I wasn't doing any of it! Something about taking with oils and at 3 seperate times a day and only wearing purple knickers? I was just chucking 3 down my neck before bed...

Who knows if it's made a difference? But FTIAP, 9+4 and still feeling sick.

Love to all x :)

Hi all,
i had acupuncture last week and the practitioner mentioned DHEA, it was the first i'd ever heard of it. I'm unsure about it, how much has it been tested? are there going to be long term effects on mother and/or child? Anyway she said it looked promising but at the moment there was little hard evidence and it was unclear whether it did more than for instance royal jelly. Doesn't it have to be bought from the internet and come from the USA? One thing both the acupuncture practitioners i have spoken to have said is the importance of women over 40 TTC taking quality supplements. They didn't specify which (except obv folic) and weren't trying to sell one brand.

Hi thanks for DHEA info. Isn't that sod's law Jollster, but perhaps it made a difference - it's the three months before the BFP that the egg is getting ready to pop... You can buy it in the UK blackcat - couple of websites selling it.

I'm on CD1 again. AF came on eve of cd24 - cycle seems even shorter than ever and I really do wonder if acupuncture, vits etc are making even a jot of difference. I can only hope that it's down to low sperm count and DH only having acu/no booze for short time so we won't see improvements there yet.

I shall be chucking in the towel in a few months time. TTC is just too damn grim. I really don't feel that at 40 it's game over but I must be on about cycle 14 or 15 of trying and I'm beginning to feel so effin angry - not just miserable - that I can't get pregnant. Which is probably halving my chances of conceiving anyway.

Sorry CD1 moan over.

9+4 is fantastic, btw.

beangrower CD1 moaning is definitely permissible (I generally think some all month round moaning on about how bloody unfair it all is, can sometimes be permissible to....) Understand why you feel you might be chucking in the towel. I think that may be the way forward (if not assisted conception) is to pretend 'not' to be trying. Flipping almost impossible though.

I'm on CD19, a while to go till AF arrives, and feel that this month is unlikely to be 'my' month. Didn't manage to SWI on the positive smiley day because of logistical reasons (hubby at work), so not feeling hopeful. Bloody angry it took me so long to find a decent bloke to settle down with. Not that I would have settled with any of the half wits that I met in my 20's. I'm lucky to have hubby in my life, and certainly very lucky to have DD. Chin up beanie - you never know it may just still happen (and more than likely when we're both least expecting it to) xx

i was wondering what people felt about tests? Both acupuncturists i've seen have suggested i have tests for progesterone, and another standard test done early on (can they be done on NHS?) and then something about ovarian reserves- AMH/ FSH?? One I know has to be done privately. I conceived easily last time but then had a MMC. The woman i saw today said it would be helpful for her to know more so she could treat me accordingly.
My issue is that at 44 IVF has a very low success rate and I don't really have that sort of money so its not a route i'll be taking. DP isn't interested in egg donation- something i would be ok with (if we could afford it- which we can't). I'm concerned that if i have tests- other than maybe progesterone which does seem useful to know what if i get poor results? I'm the sort of person who will feel so deflated by that it will mentally send me down. I have heard of women who have had dreadful results and then went on to conceive, isn't it better to have some self belief? At this point there are no known physical problems with either of us, its just most likely I have duff old eggs. So isn't it a bit of a waste of money for someone in my position?
I can see how if TTc was really becoming all consuming and i felt i should know one way of another maybe getting bad news would convince me to stop trying and just move but i'm not at that point yet.

I've now been taking good quality supplements for around 6 months which will help- though i know they are not a miracle cure at all.

i suppose what i'm saying is, if i'm going the natural conception route is there any point in having tests done? If so which ones? thanks everyone.

Ah - thanks Knicky; you're so sweet. We have to keep believing it will happen for both of us - it's just taking sooooo long, the bugger. I so wish I could be more zen about the whole process. I keep trying to balance everything out with sensible thinking (win-win etc) but AF hormones seem to grab me by the hair and drag me back to the neanderthal cave of broodiness (dare I say desperation?)!

Sorry to hear about missing your smiley. If you managed to dtd close to that day you could get lucky... I really hope so.

I feel SO like you about the decent bloke situation. Angry. I didn't half hang around with some knobs during the fertile years and, after all that, the goodun was staring me in the face (we met at school when I was 15 and have been friends - or v close friends of one mutual friend - ever since).

Plus I just can't quite believe that we could have been so lucky with DC1 (2-3 cycles TTC) and now this. I'm sure this is exactly what you and your hubby are going through. My DP is quite philosophical about it all - v happy with one tbh - but it's not the same for men is it?

Anyway - here's to your DD and my DS, the sweeties. Plus relationships that really work! It could have been so much messier I suppose.

Really appreciate your message. My Chinese acupuncturist was v lovely this morning too (I was a bit weepy to my embarrassment) - bless her.

Waving at everyone else, wishing them all the best, btw!

beangrower we were exactly the same with TTC DC1 - I say TTC, because ridiculously we got pregnant first cycle round. Given how things have panned out this time it seems unbelievable now. I think we have lots in common with our DPs - mine is very philosophical too. He only said at the weekend he feels he already has everything he wants with me and DD - and if happens it happens. Definitely different for men - I wish I could be more like that and continue to try to be, though that first day of AF is so tough when you want it to be something else. Here's to what we have. Lovely blokes and wonderful children (and for us, 2 cats by the end of the year if I haven't fallen.....)

blackcats I went to my GP re blood tests and have been able to have them on the NHS. Day 1 or 2, then day 21 for progesterone (having that this Friday). I'm crossing fingers I still may get referred on the basis of my 2 m/cs last year (albeit one was a chemical pg so very early days). I'm 39 (40 at the end of the month). I think you should visit your GP for some blood tests. Me and DP have decided not to go down the assisted route mainly due to finances so I can't help you with other tests which you could help.

Maybe some of the other ladies on here could help?

Hi Blackcat

A few thoughts on that. Totally get that you only want good news, so maybe it's not for you if it would demoralise you hearing that you may have low egg reserves etc, which is fairly likely given our age. I did the tests because I needed to know whether to stop torturing myself with the possibility of another pg in case it really was impossible. But then I hadn't conceived at all since my DS was born (he's just turned 2) and that seemed odd to me after conceiving quite quickly when we tried for him (which will be 3 years ago in April, aged 37 me/40 DP).

I went private for bloodtests as the NHS don't offer the test for AMH. (This measures ovarian reserve and is quite a new test.) The NHS should agree to test your FSH around cd3. If this is high your ovaries are working hard to release eggs and this suggests fertility is waning/challenged.

It sounds like you should test your progesterone if you had an MC as this could be low post Ov and may need boosting for another pg... Progesterone should be tested 7 days before AF is due if you are regular (7 days after ov).

Going private (£300) also meant I got two scans showing the womb lining and ovulation process - well worth knowing. The scans also showed that I had 11 antral follicles in the ovaries which was encouraging. 15-30 each month is normal during the fertile years.

Personally, I tested because I thought something was up and I was right - my DP had a low sperm count. So the tests helped me to get him off booze and give ourselves more of a chance. However, I would have been devastated if they'd shown that I was perimenopausal... I was lucky because they just showed that if I'm not a spring chicken (AMH = 9.5 = 'low fertility'; FSH = 9.5, slightly elevated) I'm still ovulating and progesterone is ok and therefore it's possible to have another. However, I am also getting my tubes tested on the NHS... just in case.

Hope that helps.

Wow - that was fast, Knicky. Well done both of you! Yes - I feel like the DPs are in the perfect place. Mine had been single quite a long time so he's now got lots more than he's bargained for, and loves it but doesn't really feel the urge to 'expand'. I envy him, though feel sorry for him when AF comes along and I get all morose.

Hurray for cats - hopefully you'll get them and have another baby! Your DD will be very happy about that addition to the gang!

DP and I moved in together in April 2009 (a bit stressful, after a month-long trip in SE Asia, our version of a honeymoon) and fell pg in May. Fortunately I'd been taking folic acid for a good while, waiting for him to finish his job abroad and join me in the UK - so it all felt very fortuitous like it was 'meant to be'. It does make it all the tougher now though - doesn't it? I have asked myself if a second one 'isn't meant to be'.

I'm also stuck mulling over how great my birth was at home and how it all felt so natural to be a mum (therefore should be allowed to do it twice!) My childminder has just announced her 2pg (she's a spring chicken at 34) - she said she wants to book in for a C-section. I do understand but I can't help thinking if only I could do it for her! Weird or what?

Agreeing with you and Blackcats - assisted route is a lot of money (which could be spent on DS) and stats aren't v encouraging though there are ladies here who have beaten the stats, thank goodness. For us it would be too tough emotionally and I personally don't want to take the meds. But it's easier to say when you have a child I think.

FWIW I would get progesterone levels checked as that is something that can be supplemented relatively easily.

The ovarian reserve thing is a controversial one, in that if you are someone who really needs to know all the facts it might help you BUT I know one woman (who was 44 I think) who got very depressing results, and that very month got a BFP and the result is a gorgeous nearly one year old... As I understand it (and am prepared to be corrected by someone who's looked into it more) that is really gives you no indication of quality, just likely quantity. And if you are still ovulating (even if not eery month) there is still a chance. OF COURSE the chances are lower, we all know that at 40+, but it only takes one egg and the right circumstances, and you all know the rest.

hi all

Isabeller I'm intrigued by what you said about duofertility - I've never come across this, did some reading on the website and it sounds really good - plus you get your money back if you don't get pregnant within a year, would you recommend it?

I'm still doing IUI's at the moment and hoping pne of my final 2 will help but it would be useful to know if there's an alternative if they don't work. I filled out the online assessment and they said that they felt they could help me

am having dreadful PMT at the moment so AF is definitely on its way, I felt positively murderous this morning and my poor cat got the brunt of it when he came in dripping wet (I apologised to him afterwards for shouting so i think he's forgiven me now! ;-)

I never used to be this bad but the last few months have been terrible!

sorry for typos - am usually such a pedant

Hi all,
thanks for the info so far. Once my cycle is back on track i'll see about getting what I can on the NHS. One glimmer of hope was when we had the scan and saw baby's heartbeat (before our loss) the (private) sonographer mentioned i had lots of eggs! I suppose she meant follicles ? This is all new to me , anyway i could see a cluster of them.
I have one grown up daughter and having an only child worked well for me over the years- especially after i got divorced. She had a half-brother though who stayed alternate weekends so maybe she wasn't quite as much an only child as some. I have asked her if she wished she had a sibling living with her growing up, if she had been lonely, but she said no. We were always very close which helps. I'd just would like to see if DP and I could have a child together .

Yes - the AMH test is new and not necessarily helpful, but hey Jollster's friend got pg and had a lovely baby despite depressing results so the test didn't make a damn difference either way. (I got ok results and am still not pg!) The main thing is to know you're ovulating, that the womb lining and progesterone levels are ok and that the sperm is ok. Like I say - we did discover something that needed working on - better wrigglers - so I feel that we are closer to that elusive pg now than if we'd not bothered and just hoped for the best. Great news about the sonographer mentioning lots of follicles - sounds like you should be encouraged, Blackcats.

I don't think my DS would mind being an only and we would certainly have a very nice life together and less pressure financially. It's really only me in my family who minds!

Fx Blackcats that there's another one coming your way.

ps Tina - know what you mean about PMS. Do you think it's because of TTC = increased awareness or are your hormones playing you up?

Hi ladies, I think it is time I take another little break from Mumsnet, I am struggling at the moment, the fertility drugs are making me very emotional (ended up crying at DD's school today!) and also something (possibly the thyroid and blood pressure medication) is making me feel very tired. On top of that am not well, so struggling to keep on top of all I need to do workwise etc. I will pop back and let you know about FET but it has not happened yet. If anyone has any wondeful news, please do message me. Hugs to all.

oh italian sorry to hear you are struggling. Fingers crossed it will all end well for you... (FWIW, I cry pretty much everywhere and anywhere, can't help it and don't even try.) You are doing something incredibly challenging, because you have so much love to give. Hope you can be gentle on yourself. x

Good luck Italian - we are all gunning for you. xxx

Italian I'll miss your posts, but you must look after yourself. You've got such a lot going on, it's no wonder you feel exhausted and run down. Take care and be lovely to hear from you again when you're ready. Lots of love XX