IVF/ICSI/FET - any more for any more?

[jumpingjackhash]

Hi all, we're about to start FET following an unsuccessful round of ICSI last year (well, we got the bfp, but then I miscarried shortly after ). But... time to get back on the bike and go again...

Anyone else going through this?

Ah good luck ZB and Jumping for the next round. I'll be watching your updates with interest. Sorry Jumping can't help with the massage question.

Josie you're sounding very strong good for you. I've had a couple of meltdowns in recent weeks so you're definately not alone in feeling that way sometimes. x

Well, drugs have arrived, my nose it ITCHING to start the sniffs on Sunday - here we go agggaaaaaaiiiinnnnnn (although this time with a nice price tag of £540 so far for the drugs!)
How is everyone else doing on this thread?
xz

Hey zeebee, I hope you're well. Good luck for this cycle!
Are you on the long protocol?

As for me, I unfortunately miscarried.
At our first scan (6+6) our embryo was measuring a week smaller but had a heartbeat. Then at a scan a week later (8+1) there was no heartbeat. So I believe that's called a missed miscarriage.
I wanted a natural end, and so after 3 agonising weeks (11+1) Bur left me and is now helping a new rose bush bloom x
We've decided to get some sort of life back over the summer and see what nature has to offer.

I hope everyone else is doing really well and enjoying these rare few days of sunshine x

Hello angel - I am so sorry for your loss- just horrible to have so much hope and expectancy for it to be dashed. You sound incredibly brave to have let it pass naturally without operation. I really hope you are feeling like there are things you cam look forward to - a holiday or something that can get your mind out of it for a while. Has your consultant had any meetings with you to discuss why it happened?

Thanks for your good wishes - I have been sniffing for a week now. Felt quite blue yesterday and my husband who has to work today has gone in feeling very blue... Sometimes it's hard to know how to deal with his feelings too... He's just worried it won't work again and we'll have to start looking for a surrogate! Plus he's up for asking my brothers wife if she'd consider carrying for us - but I just don't know... Very very difficult decision that we might have to make. I just can't let my mind go there right now.
How is everyone else on this thread? Jumping - did you have the hyseroscopy?

I have to go and meet some friends in tower bridge now - which is a to get to from here and it's started raining, so off I trot in my waterproofs!
Happy Sundays all
Z

Hello everybody,

Am on mat leave and was surfing mumsnet and found this thread with many familiar names on it and wanted to wish you all the best of luck. I'm nearly 38 weeks and am due to have C section on 9th July (low-lying placenta) so will hopefully soon meet my first DC.
To offer some hope of miracles, after our first ICSI in October, they collected 31 eggs from me, but by 5 days later there was only one little blasto left, rated at 3bb. I was convinced it wouldn't work/I would miscarry but it has stuck in there and is growing nice and fat.
Fingers crossed for everyone going through cycles at the moment - I'll be sure to be joining you again in a year or so for another attempt...

Is there anybody still out there? This thread's gone awfully quiet.

Zeebee and Jumping are you both still cycling? How's it going?

Angel I was really sad to read of you loss. Thinking of you at this time.

Josie how are you doing?

Lumili are you lurking out there?

I know I've been away for a long while. It's been quite a struggle to stay on top of everything that's been going on so internet usage became non-existent. Sorry for deserting the thread.

Well DH had a much needed couple of weeks away in May, but we came back to quite a bit of emotional turmoil. FiL's cancer isn't suitable for surgery and the radiotherapy wasn't effective. Last week we got the sad news that the benefits of chemo (life-prolonging) probably won't outweigh the side-effects. Basically FiL isn't well enough to go through it . He's been in and out of hospital and it looks like he'll be transferred into the palliative care team. DH doesn't think he'll make Christmas and is devastated - he's very close to his dad.

We've moved house too so everything has definitely happened at once.

And on top of all that, we were booked in for a third fresh IVF cycle, which we decided to go through with. In a way, with everything else going on I stressed about it a lot less!

So we did the antagonist protocol again, and I broke every rule in the book. I continued to drink caffeine as normal and didn't cut down until the day of ET. I also continued to drink moderately throughout stimming period and had my last glass of wine two days before ET. I think I'd given up caring about doing things right. DH and I also had drunk far too much during our holiday too - we were in France after all!

But the outcome wasn't as disastrous as they'd make you believe it would be.

We had our best ever cycle. We made two top quality blasts (a hatching 5/5/3 and an expanded 4/5/3 - my clinic has adopted a numerical grading system now, but those are equivalent to a 5Aa and a 4Aa), which were transferred and two reasonable quality blastocysts (both 4/2 or Bb on the old scale), which have been frozen.

14dpo my betaHCG came back at 167. Clinic told me that gives me a 90% probability of having a viable pregnancy . They don't even confirm pregnancy unless a beta comes back at greater than 70 (about a 70% probability of viability), and even then they like to see a beta of more than 100 (when the probability of a viable pregnancy increases to around 80%).

I had my beta repeated at 21dpo and it came back at 3,169 so my doubling time is good (unlikely to be ectopic) and well over the 1,000 that they like to see!

So I'm 5+4 today and I'm booked in for a viability scan on 19th July when I'll be 7+1. Fingers crossed that there will be a healthy heartbeat - and maybe even two.

Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack the thread but wanted to share a positive experience and just to say that a big part of IVF success really is a numbers game. We had a biochemical on our first cycle followed by a failed thaw, and then a failed fresh cycle before finally getting this far. Of course, I'm well aware that we might not get the news we want on scan day, but I have to remember that this is the best cycle we've ever had and it's taken a few attempts to get this far. I've come to the conclusion that a lot of hope, big dollop of perseverance, more than a dash of luck and an expectation that it's likely to take a few cycles for it to work are definitely necessary to cope with the process!

Gosh mega post again! Hoping that you're still all out there?

Hey Knackered, I was just thinking about this thread yesterday and wondering how everyone was getting on. That's such fantastic news, I love a success story! Best of luck for the scan, but those hcg scores sound huge to me. Very well done for the perseverance. And it actually helps as we've been thinking about whether to do another cycle next month. Sorry for the FIL news. Why is it that good things have to come with bad, iykwim?

How's everyone else getting on?

Angel, so sorry for your news, I do think that after going through such a lot to get pg ivf ladies should be exempt from any further trauma.

ZB how's the cycle going?

AFM since the last round of FET also failed to implant, like my first fresh round, I've been to see a private fertility specialist who diagnosed me with very high natural killer cells (I think this is quite a controversial area but the theory is they stop the embryo from implanting thinking its a cancer cell or something), and I've done 2 rounds on a 'super ovulation' plan with taking meds to boost ovulation and then immunosuppressants. I've also done this greek test thing (long story) for infections which came back positive so I'm currently taking antibiotics. I was kind of hoping that the infections / immune system thing might be the solution to our problem on its own, but I went to see a fertility consultant last week about possible further IVF (part of my NHS referral, yes i am very lucky in the postcode lottery) and he gave the bleakest assessment of my reproductive ability I've heard to date, reducing my IVF cycle chance from 40% to 25%. So I've been a bit confused the last few days. I think we have more or less decided to complete the antibiotics, start ivf again next cycle, and also take the immunosuppressants during the cycle, which should cover all bases. The thought that all that might have a 75% chance of not working is fairly depressing, but I guess the only thing to do is plough on and like you say knackered hope our numbers come up! I like the wine in france approach, but am too chicken to plan that on purpose!

Be good to hear from anyone else either about to, or been through, or going through ivf, either old names or new ones. x

Hi Care

How come your Consultant has given such a bleak outlook? No wonder you're confused. How many days were the embies that you had transferred, and did they tell you the quality?

Although it's not particularly accurate, there is definitely a correlation between the morphology (what it looks like) of a blastocyst and chance of pregnancy.

The embryologist told me that the transfer of a 5/3 (Aa) blastocyst gives about a 70% chance of pregnancy.

The transfer of a 4/2 (Bb) blastocyst gives a 30-40% chance of pregnancy.

And having two transferred doesn't double the chance of pregnancy, it increases it by 5-10%. DH and I opted to have two blasts transferred because the risk of another failed thaw was unacceptable to us.

So I'm confused as to why your Consultant is so bleak. The quality of embryos can vary quite a lot between fresh cycles, and if you make some beautiful embryos and continue with the meds to suppress your immune response then surely it can happen?

On the flip side of the coin a 25% chance of pregnancy is actually very good. That's about the same as a fully fertile couple have in any month of trying naturally.

Hi Knackered, thanks so much for that I've never heard that before. I've also never understood the grading system! The embryologist told me all mine were 'very good' and I thought the fact alone that they were suitable for freezing (and defrosted fine) meant they were fine.

I had the following: 4AA, 5BA, 5AB, 4BB, 3BB x2

The first 3 have been put back (on 2 different cycles) but didn't implant. I have been thinking it was purely an implantation thing, but am now thinking that egg quality may be playing a bit part.

So will the 19th July be your first scan? Bet you can't wait. A whole new 2 WW to get through! How are you feeling, are you having many symptoms? Also, did you 'know' before your result? x

Aha! Found the thread again! I'm crap at updates, sorry!

Angel, sorry for what's happened to you - I hope you and your DH are OK.

Wow Cloclo! Of course I remember you from the earlier thread - glad you're nice and fat... and having Mini-Clo TODAY! Hope all goes well, keep us posted!

Fab news Knackered! Fingers crossed for a VERY uneventful nine months ahead for you!

You know, since I was last on here another 2 friends have announced thair pregnancies, one just seemed to look at her DP in a saucy way and was up-duffed. It's a real kick in the tits sometimes. However, hearing about BFPs from you lovely ladies is the big boost we really need. When it seems just about anyone except 'you' can get pregnant at the drop of a hat (or pair of knickers), it's good to know that there are successes among those of us going though this too.

Zeebee hope all's well and your sacne show your follies are behaving nicely.

Shit Carebear, that sounds complicated and tough with all the drugs. However don't think about 75% chance of it not working - focus on the 25% chance that it WILL. If there's a chance, there's a chance.

AFM, I had the hysteroscopy - it was the day of the doctors' strike, so the hospital was eerily quiet! I was terrified about the procedure (and what it might show) but dosed-up on painkillers first and tbh it was all a bit of a doddle . The consultant was lovely and I even got to see inside my womb - it was pretty weird but amazing (I also saw my fallopian tube openings). The tests showed a good womb, nothing to suggest I should struggle to become pg or not carry to term, which is good. But also frustrating, as it means they don't know why the last icsi and FET didn't stick, so no 'fix'. Yes I'm a control freak!

So, I've been sniffing for a week and a half now - can feel AF is going to start this week (already in a bad mood!) so hopefully I'll be on the Gonal-F soon. I forgot how awful the naferelin tastes and the raw, stuffy feeling it gives you! Fortunately though no other side-effects.

However rather than worrying about the success of the icsi, I'm more concerned about diary dates, as best friends have just sprung a surprise, very 'imtimate' weekday wedding (we're the only non-family guests) on us in a few weeks and DH is the best man. Hoping with all I have that EC/ET happens the week before or after!

Hope everyone else is well...

Ah Jumping, lovely to hear from you. Glad the hysterocopy went well and know what you mean about the good news that they didn't find anything but also still not having found 'the thing' that is stopping it from happening. Hopefully you and I are just in the % that take a few goes same as Knackered. Oh no about the possible clash, lets hope you avoid that date.

And nice to have someone else cycling same time as me - I'm due on AF at the weekend / early next week ish and will start on Menopur then I think. No downregging for me - I didn't last time either, which must have been on the basis of my reduced antral follicle count but they didn't explain that at the time. Am feeling a bit more positive now, now that the consultant's word are no longer ringing in my ears!

Glad you're feeling better about it Carebear. Knackered's right - your chances are about the same as anyone's if you boil it down. Plus they're generalist stats - you just need that one emby to root in and cosy-up!

Were you on Menupur last time? How do you find it?

No Jumping I was on Fostimon last time. tbh out of everything i've taken so far the only thing i really really didn't get on with and hated has been clomid. the cons said Fostimon and Menopur are very similar. What will you be on?

Sorry i've just re-read your post, you did say, Gonal-F.

Yes, Gonal-F. I was on this last time (got 10 eggs) and got along OK (no major side-effects, really easy to use), but I asked the consultant about Menupur as I'd heard about potentially higher egg yields. After much discussion we decided to stick with Gonal-F (know it, felt OK on it, got OK results and Menopur claims don't put it at an advantage...).

Hi all
Lovely to be on this thread again - it had gone quiet, and tbh life seems to have just been so busy over the last few weeks i've not even had time to sit and post (hate doing it on my phone). so hello all!

I am cycling again (2nd fresh round)-been doing Gonal F for 7 days now. Had a scan yesterday and folicles seem to be responding as they should so far - so thats good. I must say i've been absolutely exhausted on this round - emotionally and physically and so worried that i'll feel jsut terrible if it doesn;'t work this time round. I've had a bit of accupuncture - it has helped a bit with the relaxation element. There is thought that EC might be this Friday... feels very soon.

Knackered - congratulations! Fantastic news - my fingers are crossed tightly for your 7 week scan. may it all go swimmingly. I also love the fact you had a holiday in france and ate and drank what you wanted and got such great results - you've inspired me to open a lovely bottle of red tonight to have with roast chicken i'm cooking...

Care - so happy you are about to start your new cycle too... sorry you've been having a bit of time of it with the consultant etc. It's so hard to get negative facts out of ones head isn't it. WHen I was told my uterus was on the small side and we might have to consider surrogacy, that's all I could think/dwell about - the negatives. anyway I am really glad you are feeling more positive following Knackered's excellent response.

Jumping - wow re seeing your fallopian tubes etc - were you not under general anesthetic then - ie did you see a screen with all those interguing things, or some photos of it afterwards? I was shown photos of my "small" uterus afterwards in recovery, and that was it - tbh - cant rememeber much whilst i was in recovery.

Cloclo - congrats to you - lovely to hear of a success story on here - keeps us all positive.

ZB

Zeebee, what point did you start injecting? I didn't have a scheduling appointment this time and whole I'm due back as the clinicbon Thursday, I wonder if AF will come before then and can't remember when u started injecting last time?!

I was totally awake for the hysteroscopy, it was kind of like ET in terms of the speculum and then a probe (yuk) but it was done in the EC / surgical rooms, rather than a normal consulting room or ET suite. I saw it all 'live' on a screen, pretty weird! I was on strong antibiotics for neatly a week after and can't use tampons when AF comes (will feel like a 12yo again with pads!). Nice! Glad I had it though, as it has given a bit of a boost in that I know there's no reason an emby shouldn't stick.

Yay - the thread's going again!

Care Jumping's right. It simply takes multiple goes for some of us. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong - no rhyme or reason it's just luck that all the conditions are right at the same time.

Your blastocysts are amazing so I really wouldn't worry about your egg quality. First round I made 2 x Ab's. My other two blasts were D/E and unsuitable for freezing. Second round that failed I made two poor quality blasts and 2 reasonable Bbs. Despite each blastocyst having a 30-40% chance they both failed. It wasn't till my third round that I made the 2xAa and 2xBb! It will be interesting to see whether it's one or two that have made it!

Jumping Glad to hear the hysteroscopy went well. How do you feel about doing another cycle this time?

Zeebee. Did you enjoy that glass of red with your dinner? Gosh, Friday for EC day. Nearly half-way there. I'm crossing everything for you that this is going to be your cycle.

AFM, yes, it is exactly like being on the 2ww again and it's going so slowly and it's not as if I can cheat and do a home test. Forgotten who asked, but I found out really early as I just "knew" the cycle would work. It was really weird this time, I just had a feeling. Anyway, I got a very faint positive - hardly visible - on a First Response at 4dp 5dt (or 9dpo). I got a positive at 5dp 5dt (10dpo) on an IC and CB digital. I then got obsessed with seeing the pink line show up!

Since then I've had a lot of lower abdominal pain, which was especially worrying as when I first got it at 12dpo it was accompanied by a three day bleed, which the clinic says was an implantation bleed. The bleeding stopped but the cramps have continued but I'm being told it's my uterus laying down muscle and the ligaments softening as it prepares to stretch.

I haven't had any morning sickness yet, but I have had extreme fatigue - it's a real alien feeling. I'm in bed by 9pm most evenings and I was off work for the past few days (we moved house) and had to have an afternoon nap rather than unpack! But I really shouldn't be complaining!

Morning Knackered, so pleased for you! Hope the move went OK, the unpacking can wait!

I feel quite strange about this found - relaxed about the process now I've done it before, but more wary of the stages we need to get through perhaps. It's still eay on for us and there are a lot if 'ifs' to get beyond (if the drugs work and we get enough eggs; if the sperm sample is ok; if any fertise; if any are transferred...). I'm probably stressing more about my diary and what's going to happen when though, which is at least taking my attention away from the process itself!

I'm not letting myself think about a bfp or neg test yet!

Round, not found. On phone!

Yes, I felt like that for my second round too. I definitely wasn't as anxious, but as you say the bliss of ignorance is gone. And there are so many ifs, which I found quite overwhelming.

I agree I think it does help - in a bizarre sort of way - to have other stressors to focus on rather than the cycle.

Hiya
Jumping - After I received my drugs a few days later i got a letter from Guys in the post with that green sheet that you fill in with what Gonal f you will be administering... on that sheet was an appointment written down for my 1st scan appointment which was 3rd July. I had my AF 4 days beofre then. If you haven't had that green form in the post I woud give Guys a call...

Knackered so happy to read of your symptoms - they sound very positive... yes I REALLY enjoyed my glass of red with dinner last night, although had a sleepless night worrying about everything coming up and how EC will be a nightmare if it's on Friday as it will clash horribly with something i'm doing at the moment - anyone any thoughts on how long sedation stays in your system? Trying to recall from last time....

LIFE - gets in the way with Life eh?!
z

Life gets in the way of life is what I meant!

Thanks zeebee, I've had that form and my scan is booked in for Thursday, so hopefully AF will be along any time now (by then I'll have been sniffing for 2 weeks and it was around that long last time).

It's funny how this process becomes all consuming, but then there are other 'key events' which you just can't shift that get in the way! Does anyone know the deal with saying to the clinic, 'actually, I can't do it then, can we do it the following day?'.

I mean, when we started this whole thing I thought it would really be dictated in its entirety by my body/the science. But so much is by their schedules and work plans, so surely there's some flexibility?!