IVF/ICSI/FET - any more for any more?

[jumpingjackhash]

Hi all, we're about to start FET following an unsuccessful round of ICSI last year (well, we got the bfp, but then I miscarried shortly after ). But... time to get back on the bike and go again...

Anyone else going through this?

Hi there
I've been looking for a thread to join, I have to say I've never posted on any forum to date and we've had three attempts now at ICSI. I now find myself with a very practical head on and am keen to share experiences and gain peoples views. I'm not great with the acronyms so please forgive my lack of them in this post.

We have male factor infertility, aged 33 and 34 (hubby) his morphology has consistently been below 3% but his count has been good to really good and motility over 50%. We've had ICSI every time, menopur and cetrotide for stimulation which has worked really well. Always had good stimulation and fertilisation, usually 10-12 embryos and 3 or more reaching blastocyst.

After our second failed cycle we insisted on full genetic testing - chicago tests etc and to have genetic testing on the embryos. The findings were I had mild killer x so I was treated with Prednisolone and clexane on this third round. (April - May 2012)

Result was, we achieved pregnancy for three days post testing date, then read negative there on after.

We have been having treatment at Care Notts and although they have been responsive to our questions/requests, we find they are not forthcoming with ALL the options (generally thinking they are saving you money!). Clearly not if you have to keep having more cycles.

We are now of the opinion that we will try else where and are seriously thinking of using George at the Zita West clinic as he's well known for immune cycles and their attention to detail.

Slightly nervous as this now means waiting until Jan 2013 until we can get our 'spot' (we will see him for consultation in Oct) we will also have to travel/stay down there.

Does anyone have any views about failed Immune cycles with very mild killer x symptoms. I am wondering if we should push fro Intrillipids.

We will def. have genetic testing on the embryos again as we found out this time that 75% of all embryos in a cycle are likely to have abnormalities, this really leaves us a 2 in 10 embryo chance of success each cycle, which seems very slim!

Any thoughts/comments would be most welcome. We would also consider abroad or other treatment centres in the UK if others report good things.

Surprisingly my hubby and I are coping pretty well after failed cycle no. 3. We figure that it's one big experiment in this multi million £ industry of IVF and we want to narrow the odds as much as we can and know all the treatment options to help achieve our dream. Other than that keeping a healthy balance outside of IVF and this sunshine is certainly helping :-)

Lucky star sorry for your failed cycles. We are also at notts care. Got to 8+ weeks. What did your genetic tests show. They have been keen for us to have testing we have been less so. Have had 4 mc. Was surprised they suggested we go for FET only 1 embryo and is not with guideles.
We will continue there some communication is terrible.

Hi all - yes indeed the sunshine certainly makes you feel a bit better about life doesn't it!? I had a progesterone test at my doctors on day 22 this month - jsut to see how my natural fertility was doing - and had a bad result back yesterday from the doctor... seems I had a very low ovulation this last month - and unresponsive follicles, BUT that could have been down to the fact that it was day 22 rather than day 21 that the test was done and also that i've jsut come off the FET drugs last month

Also like you guys we are TTC naturally again - which I am actually really enjoying (pre IVF it was always a bit "what day in mycycle is it - shall we bother etc") .. a glimmer of hope perhaps that it will happen naturally.

I'm taking a daily does of unbelievably strong vits - called Cellagon Anurim - from Germany - disgusting BUT I have to say it makes me feel good, and I have had 2 friends that have used this and got PG... anyway - always hope!

I am going to go back to my yoga classes I think - i bought myself a bike last week (mid life-IVF crisis bike!) and DH and I went for 9 mile bike ride on saturday all over S london which we LOVED... so exercise certainly helps the mind!

So, i will be starting my fresh round (fingers crossed) in July, and we have a trip booked for my 40th to NYC in early Sept, so I REALLY Hope we are still going to be able to fly if i've jsut had the transfer - so we've decided to insure the hell out of our flight tickets in case we have to cancel....

Josie hello - glad you have someone to vent to at work - your job sounds ACE - are you a baker? I would lvoe to cook cakes all day... when is your next appt?

jumping glad you have an appt on 1st June. are you sticking with Guys for a fresh round? I think we will as they know us so well and also they are so handy for work/home etc.

care thank you for your kind words - may I ask - did your hysteroscopy bring up anything at all? Jsut interested to know....

bugsy so pleased for you you are at 8+ weeks - inspirational

luckystar welcome to this funny old thread - i have a feeling it might re birth now as we are all approaching new appointments etc - it's a great place to find things out and i have found it so comforting in my hours of need!
I am so sorry about your failed cycles - I too have an appointment with Dr Ndunkwe at ZIta in Sept - JUST in case this new fresh round also ends in MC... will you do a fresh round at ZIta;s clinic then?

Happy thursday s everyone and long may the sun continue to shine!
x

Thanks for the warm welcome :-)
Bugsylugs - genetic showed 2 out of 10 genetically normal - but one arrested resulting in us only having one put back. 2 only 1 abnormality Trisomy 15 (anglemans syndrome/Prada Wills syndrome) and Mononsomy 13 (facial abnormalities) and 6 with multiple abnormalities. Apparently this is a VERY normal result. So tbh I wouldn't go ahead without genetic testing now as the embryo's with 1 abnormality could very well lead to a live birth.

Zeebee1 - yes we have only had fresh cycles, never anything to freeze, despite excellent fertilisation, but we have always gone to Blastocyst and therefore I understand this is the risk, to loose your frozen potentials. I had George undertake my collection on the first round. I am actually wondering if his reason for leaving Care is for the same reasons we seemed to have uncovered, that they are not as upfront about all the immune and genetic testing options and they dont offer the attention to detail, Care have told us that their business model is 'keep costs down' but their actual IVF/ICSI are no cheaper than Zita West or other London clinics, they just dont readily offer all the extra's unless you ask. We now feel they have probably got a monopoly of the market in the Midlands/North (few other places for couples to choose from) therefore their referrals are always going to be high and attention to detail less imperative, when the funds still keep coming in!!!

Anyhow cynical note over!! Promise, but I think it's important to awareness raise when others are paying alot of money for cycles and investing so much emotional energy too. xx

Welcome LuckyStar sorry to hear about your three attempts but you sound very level headed and strong. And god for you for looking for somewhere new when you?re not happy. I wasn?t happy with my clinic (NHS) so I?ve got my first appt at a different one on Monday and they?re more open minded and willing to try different protocols (quick history ? low AMH, tried long protocol IVF but changed to IUI at the last minute as I didn?t respond very well. Current clinic wouldn?t recommend another cycle but new clinic says they could try short protocol which is supposed to illicit a better response and be more successful than long for poor responders)

Bugsy I?m actually an admin officer but I run a cake baking and decorating business from home. It?s relatively new but I?ve had a cake to do every week this month! It?s hectic seeing as I work 8-5, then have to fit the cakes, and a horse, in afterwards, but it?s all what I love doing so isn?t too much of a chore I would love to do it full time, that?s my aim, and of course when I have twins through my next successful IVF cycle, working from home would make it much easier and cheaper

Bugsy I'm with you on the cake making and the horse riding! Definitely lifts you through this roller coaster journey! Was the previous clinic saying they wouldn't recommend another round at all? Or just not so close to the previous cycle? After miscarrying this is the first time Care had said to us we have to wait three months, otherwise they were happy to start on the next period. Having said that the second cycle (where I did exactly that) I did get a poor result in contrast to my first and third stimulation! I'd also advocate the working from home, especially on a day like this, when a laptop in the garden does just the trick!! :-)

Opps clearly confused, sorry - last message meant for Josie :-)

Thanks Lucky, the previous clinic wouldn't recommend trying another cycle at all as they don't change their procedures and the chances are I wouldn't repond very well again. However, had my first appt at new clinic who said the same could happen with short protocol but they would like to try it, and they're going to try Gonal F instead of menopur as it's apparently a purer form and they want to give us the best try straight away. However, there's a waiting list so we're not starting till October. It could be worse, but I'm not very patient, I'm probably going to tear my hair out waiting! Fingers crossed there might be a cancellation before then. At least I can concentrate on riding and gardening during the summer, then I can take it easy over the IVF and if it works, pg over winter, when I don't ride much anyway, so that'd work out for the best I suppose.

I'm feeling very sorry for myself though - had too much sun on Saturday, got quite badly burned on the top of my back and shoulders and have hardly slept since then as it's so painful. Now that it's a little better, but not much, I have a wisdom tooth decided to come through, so now that's keeping me awake. My skin is irritated all day and my tooth is sore all day, work is so much fun! Oh, and I just found out my ex-friend is calling her daughter Kaitlin and her fb page is covered in piccies of the clothes she's bought with 'Princess Kaitlin' on. V v v v

Ah that's no good, focus on the things that make you happy and if it means avoiding things that make you feel bad (FB) then do it :-)

Where's your new clinic. That's my fear with Zita West (which we are going to try) will have a longer wait than stated for treatment. Our consultation is not until Oct and they say a three month wait until treatment however i worry that could grow.

Feeling chilled right now about some down time, however I wont be if nearly a year has gone by and we haven't accessed our next round! That's if we need it of course, still hoping for a natural miracle :-)

Aw josie so sorry about having to wait til October - fingers crossed for a cancellation - that happened for us on our 1st round - a lovely cancellation and we were so happy to start a wee bit earlier... I hate FB btw- just a place for people to upload silly pics of all their kids and rub your nose in it. I've hidden many a stream of late - just can't Handle seeing happy families....
Anywya I had my hysteroscopy yesterday and all went well - they found nothing wrong with my insides - ie no polyps or fibroids, BUT the doctor said that it took a looooong time for the camera to get to he womb and when it got there he womb was very small. This might explain my failed pregnancies.... In the next breath she said u may like to consider surrogacy and starting a new round of IVF ASAP. Lordy! Lots to think about and google! Will be starting iVF in about 3 weeks time which we had already planned, but if that fresh round fails then we need t look for a surrogate mother!! Anyone had any experience of this??
X

Hi, I'm new to this and really feel I should have found you all earlier. I have already had my first round of ivf/icsi and got a positive result. Even then although, I was soo excited I did not want to get too carried away with the dream that had just come true. It wasn't until I saw the heart beating 6 days ago I felt like it was really happening. So, there we were, all excited, finally talking about it without feeling like we were jinxing it! However, the following evening I started with a few cramps and thought it would be gone by the morning. It was evident after two trips to the out of hours at the hospital that I was miscarrying. So, on Saturday night I passed my baby and since then have been an utter wreck. I can honestly say that I have never felt so depressed and although I still have responsibilities I wld rather lay in bed and sleep. I know this feeling will pass but I just don't know what to do from here. My whole year, my new crappy job and everything was all situated around my ivf and to go for 9 months before I can have another round free feels like an epic amount of time to still be in limbo. I fully understand that many of you will probably have had this worse , had more rounds, and more devastation but I just really need some help from other women who go through ivf. My husband is trying but we all know what men can be like! What makes me so mad is when I see pregnant women bragging about how they drink and even when I left the early pregnant unit on Monday after having my miscarriage confirmed seeing a pregnant woman smoking! I did everything right and nothing wrong and I am not bitter by others happiness but really when I see things like that I just think its too unfair! Maybe I am just feeling way to sorry for myself but after reading these threads it would seem most of you have expressed exactly the same feelings I have had through this whole process. I know that we can have another round and it could work again but I am unsure how to handle life until then. It's constantly on your mind and I really feel for every woman who goes through this. It really does make you realise how precious life is and how some people take it for granted!

Oh Zeebee that's a lot to take in! How do you feel about that? I've no experience of surrogacy but I'm starting to think now, if x is what it takes to have my family then so be it

Niknik I'm so sorry to hear your news. I haven't been through what you're going through but I can almost imagine how you must be feeling. Take all the time you need to grieve. It can be so frustrating seeing other people taking pregnancy for granted and I have to admit that I can be very bitter about other people being happy because it feels like it's been such a long time since I had any good news or was truly happy, but hey ho, that's me. Don't feel bad about it honey, it's natural. I hope you can start to come to terms with what's happened. IVF is so difficult without the heartbreak of a mc, I really hope you're ok

Josiesmith1, thank you for your kind words! I'm just trying to sort a plan out in my head about how I will cope with the waiting, waiting, waiting until my next cycle. I, like you am not very patient and hate knowing there will be months of wondering,panicking and Constant thinking of when and if our baby will finally be. I was on gonal f and responded well to treatment so hopefully it's a step in the right direction for you. I guess the main thing I need to focus on, is that it worked! I was pregnant and for those few days it truly was happiness. Even after the pain of the m/c it hasn't deterred me from going again as it will be worth it if we get a baby at the end! I really feel that however down we get we must try and carry on, to keep trying, because surely one day we will all get our wish. I think anyone who goes through ivf/icsi is amazing as it can be so hard.

Hi, I'm sat here googling my way through every possible question I have regarding icsi and miscarriage. I couldn't believe that after you see a heartbeat the risk of miscarriage was lowered significantly. This only makes me angry because it makes me wonder why did I fall into that small statistic. Not only had I already battled with the 40% chances of it working and the obstacles with mature eggs and fertilisation and not having any frozens, then bam I was dealt with this. I know I shouldn't go online but I want to do everything I can to prevent this happening again. I ordered some zita west supplements today, have any of you taken them? Let me know your thoughts? I'm trying to stay positive but I feel so hard done by at the moment. I also read and was asked by the midwife befor my miscarriage if I was taking aspirin alongside the progesterone. I wasn't and had never been told too. I have been reading recently about people using aspirin. Can anyone shed any light to me on this, like why it is used etc. I'll probably google this anyway now.

Niknik I'm sorry I don't know about the aspirin and I haven't used the Zita West supplements, just pregnacare (for all the good it's done me!) It's inspiring to hear that you responded well to the gonal f though, and surely that gives you better odds for your next try. Inspiring words too, I also think anyone who goes through infertility and IVF/ICSI is incredibly strong, and yes, we must keep fighting! P.s. I'm getting the word 'Hope' tattoed on my wrist soon (not that DH is best pleased about it ) it's going to motivate me

Josiesmith1 - I think that's a beautiful thing to do! It will motivate you and also remind you of what a journey you have been on. Whatever may happen it will always be a memory of hard work and love and after all the only word I can describe this how journey with is hope. Hope that next time it will happen. It's not like it's a tattoo with no real meaning. I pray for all of us that we get what we want, we would all be such loving parents who would never take it for granted. Surely, that's what the world needs. You only have to see Jeremy Kyle for 5 minutes to realise what some people in the world are like.
So October is your next go, well I'm not eligible now until then but won't start until December if I'm lucky. I really am thinking about finding the money again so I can go again sooner. I am of the thinking that money doesn't mean anything to me compared against our baby!

Hey ladies. I am an occasional lurker on this thread. I'm just popping in to answer the aspirin question. niknik the aspirin acts as a blood thinner. The theory is that it improves blood flow to the womb, helping implantation and preventing miscarriage. But some studies say it can hinder implantation! Some clinics use it alongside IVF and others don't.

My ex-best friend has gone into labour

NikNik I have been considering that too, especially as short protocol is cheaper than long, and I'm doing short still a lot of money though..

my (lovely) neighbour, who is a decade older than i am, is now pregnant with her second, both conceived well after we started trying

Hey there all - so many new posts!

We met with the consutant this morning and we're hopefully starting again in the next few weeks!

Zeebee, we're sticking with Guys and the consultant suggested we go forward for a trial/study called TROPHY - it's to see whether hysteroscopies help improve chances with IVF. Basically they want to check my 'cavity' ( lovely term!] and think the mc and struggle I had with thickening up my endometrium as part of the FET earlier this year might be linked. Did you have your hysteroscopy as part of this trial?

It's being led by the head honcho of the Guys ACU (really nice guy, which is reassuring) and if we're selected for the hysterocospocy strand I'd have it quite quickly. If we're not, the consultant would want to so a SCS (saline cavity scan, I think!) to see if there are any indicators of polyps, fibroids or anything else.

I'm a little concerned there may be 'something else' wrong with these suggestions - until now we'd just chalked it down to the IVF 'not working' and it was a case of 'next time...'. I guess though that knowing if there is anything else getting in the way would help.

Completely about what to do and we need to decide quickly, as Day 1 will be here in less than a couple of weeks and we need to confirm either way by then.

Niknik, I couldn't not say sorry about what you're going through. Hope you're feeling a little better now.

Josie - re. ex friend. You'll get there one day though! I was on Gonal-F and the consultant wants to keep me on that - it's apparently easier to use than Menopur and I had no side-effects, so hopefully you'll have a good experience too.

Lucky welcome!

Hi everyone
Hope you had good bank holidays? I went up to Scotland for 3 nights which was great altho come back with an ear infection so am a bit deaf at the moment
Hoping to start the sniffs for the new round on Sunday 17th June which would be day 21. Slightly scary round this one - will it work and if it doesn't we'll have to look for a surrogate mother!! All a LOT to get our heads around - feeling very fragile emotionally at the moment about things...

jumping don't think ours was part of this TROPHY trial - good to have the hysteroscopy done though as they can really see what's going on in there then... and a new round of IVF wouldn't be wasted if there is something that they need to remove from there IYKWIM... do you have a date for it yet?

niknik welcome to the thread and may this next round be successful for you - such shi* times!

josie thank you for your kind thoughts - so much to get our heads round if we do have to look to surrogacy - makes me hate PG people even more (oops - I sound like a freak - i'm not BTW )

care annoying re your neighbour GRRRR

Waves to everyone else x

ZB have you been following the 'Prednisolone....' thread. check out Duggs results. Very interesting.

Well my friend had her baby, obviously, would be worried if she hadn't had it by now and we're sort of talking again. I had to send her a congrats text, not even I'm that bitter (well, maybe a bit ) and I've seen loads of piccies on fb, which, although it breaks my heart, I'm quite secretly enjoying looking at for short periods of time. I was quite low for a few days but I'm coming round, as I knew I would. I'm still a little bit sad and mopey but I've been worse, a lot worse, and I came back, so I know I just have to get through this difficult time. A work colleague/friend had her baby boy yesterday, and then someone else came in and announced her surprise pregnancy yesterday, she had no idea, gush gush. So I excused myself from the room and basically ignored it Got a maternity leaving do in the office today but I'm getting good at just being a bit bah humbug as opposed to completely inconsolable crying my eyes out in the toilets which I would have ben a few months ago, so that's improvement I suppose

Hope you are all well

Sounds like progress there Josie! I've found that being a kind of a maternity scrooge helps, it's far easier to get away with in the office though, as in "why would anyone want to bring their new baby into the office? It's just not a suitable place / it's a distraction from business / it's noisy and I'm on a conference call...". Plus it's easier to escape pregnancy banter and excitement (when all you want to do is scream) when you're at work than in a coffee shop or somewhere with friends!

Zeebee hope the sniffing goes well and your luck is in on this cycle! After a few calls with the consultant over the weekend we've decided to go with the trial and I'm waiting for the now infamous DAY 1 so I can call the clinic and get the ball rolling - the hysteroscopy will happen within the first 2 weeks of my cycle and I can start sniffing on day 21 (assuming all is OK). I've just picked-up more info on it and a prescription for heavy-duty pain killers (lovely suppositories again ) and antibiotics, so now it's suddenly seeming quite scary!

Day 1 is due any time (could be today given how achey I feel and my mood over the last few days! ) I guess I'm back to that weird feeling where it's all very exciting, but terrifying at the same time. At least I feel I'm going into this cycle with my eyes open, but it doesn't make it any easier, does it?

Quick question for any of you SW London ladies - I'm looking at getting some massages - or similar - in for this round, can you recommend anyone (preferably someone who'll do weekend or evening appointments as I can't spend more time out of the office with all the other appointments!)?

I've tried acupuncture once before but didn't find it especially relaxing.