TTC for 10+ months, part 4

[eurochick]

Time for a new thread as the other one is just about full.

Fingers crossed for lots of patiently-awaited BFPs on this one!

Joycep The problem is that we are becoming less and less fertile, due to various things plastics, the pill etc. So more and more people need help. Also medical help means that babies who would have died survived and so inherit things from their parents taht make it hard to conceive (low sperm count, narrow hips (difficult births)) etc..

He is indeed GORGEOUS, stasi. But sorry that comment brought tears. Have a non-MN-hug.

I told my mum quite early on when things were not progressing as I hoped (or as happened to my sister) and she is still upset about the time it took them. I was hoping to get some coping tips, but what she said was that she spent most of that time despairing (not what you need to hear, although all lows have been validated). Both mum was, and I am, one of those people that are considered natural mums. I love kids, they tend to love me. I am patient with small people, and I can do all the challenging day-to-day routines: bath and bedtimes. And everyone tells me that I would make a wonderful mum. Even at work (where there are no children)... It makes me feel :(

But on the upside, I believe that I am coping a lot better than my mum did. I am sometimes despairing, but that is not the overall feeling I get when I think of the period we are in now. My DH and I do try to make our own fun, to spend time together and have (as he calls it) other projects. Bit daunted by the "get drizzle to dance" project coming up after Xmas...

I agree that a significant number of the 40.000 would have had a natural BFP eventually. It is just how long do you wait. And how desparate do you get. I reckon my parents would have been very ready for IVF about 3 yrs before they got their first baby...

Completely agreeing with joycep about the stepping away from those sorts of stats. Really we had poor timed SWI a number of months, but frankly, if enough months pass, you know there is something not quite happening as it should. Sadly. Don't obsess over it. In fact, I can recommend our frequency regime, even if it makes for knackered Friday

And not sure I agree with karbea about the lowering fertility because of treatments. Our generation (except perhaps fatima) would have been here regardless of ferti-treatment. The environmental factor is interesting, but a large part has to do with starting to TTC later in life, I reckon. Look at our stats in that way!

Anyhow, work anyone?!?

Also how many of those 40,000 are older? My parents were much younger when they were pregnant with me. People don't try for babies till they are older.

My acupuncturist said the other day that what we now categorise as excellent sperm was categorised as average in the 1970s.

what i meant drizzle was that it's going to get worse, as people inherit things.

Hello! I have nearly written 3500 words which is half the chapter. I'm bored so have come to hang out here before going off to write my last 120 words. Them my brain will have had enough.

stasi you look so lovely in your wedding dress! I didn't realise you could put photos on here, or click on people? It's nice to put a face to the name. I'm not brave enough though! Sorry no honeymoon baby. Now, I try to waver between sunny optimist and eeyore hypochondriac pessimist (I like posting my hypo thoughts of the moment in here - it saves dh). But, making a baby is no easy feat and a lot of people who fall easily are very lucky or lying

There are so many things that can go wrong along the way. It could be a duff egg one month or an ovulation that doesn't quite happen. Or a minor mis-timing, or an egg that didn't divide quite right, or implant properly and so on and so on. all I can think is that it really is a miraculous thing and like runner says, we are just on a journey and when we get there, we wouldn't have wanted to take another route because even though we don't realise it, everything is playing out as it should (bit woo talk but I do believe it). I can't say that out of choice I'd have had to climb this particular mountain but, it is not without some glimmers of silver lining (admittedly they are small). I will never ever take my child for granted, or moan incessantly about being pregnant. I've found out all sorts of ways for dealing with stress this year that I think are good life tools. I won't ever say anything crap like I got given this week 'well, I've got lots of friends your age who adopted' or relax and it will happen (aghhhhhhhhhhhh). It is a bit like me and dh are weathering a storm too, which whilst I'd rather we weren't - it makes me realise that we can?

And just to burst my own bubble of trying to be sunny - I am 35 in 3 weeks. Boo Hoo! 34 sounds more fertile. But I know this is silly.

Ugh back to writing.

runner good to see you back. Only a few weeks to go!

Stasi you look beautiful in your wedding dress.

I've been charting since March (9 cycles) and noting the timing of swi since we started properly trying (3 earlier cycles). In every single one of those we hit the fertile period (i.e. the day of ov and up to 3 days before), mostly several times (once I was travelling for work and we only got one shot but it was just before ov). You'd think out of 12 cycles of perfectly timed swi we would have seen something? Particularly now we know my hormones are fine, I am oving, my tubes and clear and hubby is producing some decent swimmers. It's frustrating to have the diagnosis of "unexplained infertility".

karbea I noticed when my husband got his sperm results that what is considered normal now is hugely below the average of some 1950s figures I found. Sperm counts are dropping hugely. That can't help.

I have also wondered about how many people having IVF would have got pregnant eventually. I suspect a lot what have, but the problem of starting in your 30s rather than 20s (as is so often the case now) is that you just don't have the luxury of time. I am still rather averse to the idea of IVF, but I am coming round. As someone said a couple of pages back, I suspect once you are pregnant you quickly forget about how it happened. I think once I have been through the immunology testing, I will feel easier about IVF. Because if that doesn't pick up any problems then I know IVF is the best option left. If it does, we can try some natural cycles with the immunology treatment before moving to IVF.

I've hoovered all the downstairs now so I deserve a break! Today has been so unproductive, far too much time on MN. I need to make a start on dinner but you lot keep pulling me back in

I think age is a factor. It isn't such a big deal for someone who is 20 to try for 5 years because then they will still only be 25. Whereas those of us who are 30plus can't keep trying for years because then we almost certainly won't be successful even with IVF so it is a risk to keep trying. I'm sure that given enough goes we would eventually get pregnant if our problem really is only that DH doesn't have very many sperm. One time one of them would make it. But my fertility will be declining now and we don't have that many goes left, whereas if I was 20 then I could have another 20 years of trying so double the number of goes that I have now. Also, I really would like 2 children so that is another reason not to hang around. ICSI hasn't been around very long (since the early 90s I think) so we really wouldn't have had much option then. I am so grateful that science has moved on and that's why I feel a bit when I hear people talk about it being unnatural. Surely it's unnatural to be infertile?

I've decided to do a sort of every other day hybrid. We SWIed yesterday morning so then I think we might tonight because we're out tomorrow and I don't think we'll get back until the early hours and we'll both be too drunk tired.

stasi my gynae said that it is possible to not get a temp rise but to still have ovulated but that if you get a clear temp rise then you have almost certainly ovulated. I don't believe everything she says is right but I'm inclined to believe her on this one because the cycle where the scans showed I didn't ovulate was also one where my temps were very different to previous months and I got no clear pattern.

I knew something was wrong because I'd noted dates and I knew that we'd had loads of months with perfect timing. I do think that some people get the BFP later simply because they'd got the timing wrong assuming they ovulated on CD14 rather than working it out for themselves. But I was certain that our timing has been right.

God ladies I really can?t keep up

Firstly and most importantly, well done on the hoovering mrsD. I hate it, but this has been somewhat alleviated by buying a Dyson Animal. Now it takes 6 times as long to do the hoovering, but I feel like some kind of hoovering superhero ? think of the Charlies Angels/MN logo, but replace it with me and a little hoover .

I have been thinking back on my post about no-one on here conceiving miracle-baby no 1, and realised that this may be an issue to me because I don?t talk to anyone in RL at all about TTC. So actually I have no idea how long it took any of my friends. Well I have an inkling that one couple took a while and eventually went IVF, my sister took ages and had her boy via IVF eventually; but that?s it. Perhaps if I knew about some people just taking a while in real life, it might feel less scary . That said, I refer you back to my friend on another thread who is now 8 weeks, after 20 months of trying, PCOS etc. It CAN happen, and it will for us repeats mantra whilst banging head off wall

Karbea I have seen Horrible Bosses recently, very funny. Also Hangover 2, Limitless, Paul, Bad Teacher, Cars 2, Transformers (umm, 3?), Captain America and Bridesmaids. And probably some others (in my defence, 4 or 5 of those were on our flight on holiday recently, I don?t normally see that many films!). Anyway I can recommend them all for various reasons, apart from Captain America which was a bit dull. Bridesmaids was hilarious. Oh also Planet of the Apes but that was shit . Oh I see joycep also recommends Bridesmaids, so that's a double vote.

stasi I check my phone app like that once in a while and it makes me sad. I realise that I could have got pregnant nearly every one of the 17 or so cycles we have been trying, so the statistics aren?t working in our favour. Come on tae fuck, as we say up North! (translation ? hurry the devil up, won?t you, there?s a good chap )

Work, lemon? What?s that?

I love the theory from runner about (in my less eloquent words) that the baby you are meant to get is the one you eventually get. Who knows, maybe the one I?d have got if I?d conceived last cycle would have been a gurny, grumpy, miserable sod! Of course I?d have loved it anyway, but it clearly wasn?t meant to be the one I end up with. No, because that will be a happy, delightful, sleepy little baby that only fills it nappies with roses.

Age isn?t a factor mrsden - lalalala I can?t hear you. Now that OH are engaged and TTC, and frankly happier than ever, I have to fight the temptation to get unbelievably cross that we waited so long. Regret is futile, but oh how I wish I was rather closer to 30 than 40 :( Although actually I think you meant age is a factor in why so many people turn to IVF quite ?quickly?, in which case yes age most likely is a factor. If I?d known this time last year that I?d still be TTC a year from now, I?d have gone for IVF straight away. I would also like 2 children, and there barely seems time for one these days.

This is a bit long isn?t it? I should stop now as I?m making no sense, and that?s before I have even cracked open the .

Oooh just realised it?s Friday. Hurrah :)

woo hoo, 4070 words, let the weekend begin

I have won two books this week, one off MN and one from goodreads. I now have far too many books to read. But I have read 5 n=in the past month since deciding to replace google and infertility books with fiction. That was a lot of misery time!

My acupuncturist said that fertility is like a big balance and you keep putting stuff on the balance scale and eventually it will tip. Currently I'm throwing onto my scale:

folic acid (lame)
acupuncture
wellman vits
pinebark
vit c high dose
dh v low caffeine
me no caffeine
under 5 units of booze a week for us both. sad face.
yoga for me
meditating (I'm actually going to a class!)
hypnosis at end of month (mostly for anxiety)
gillian mckeith style diet zz
good sleep
dh swimming
I'm charting again, my new acu loves them.
Smiley face sticks.
last but not least...shagging! every other day this month. We always get patterns wrong tho.

maybe iui/ivf are the big fat whopper weights that make the scales come down with a bang?!

cross post nelly and at nappies filled with roses. Dh informs me that we are having wine tonight. yay!!!

karbea we saw that film with Jake Gyllengall (have no idea what his surname actually is) where he has to stop the train from being blown up and i liked it. But he can do no wrong for me! Also enjoyed bridesmaids lots and limitless, even though the ending was a bit

i have been sat in the same place all day and now it is dark.

This has been the longest week EVA. I am sure some fvker added a couple of extra days somewhere in the middle.

Source code, do you mean, with the gorgeous Jake Gylenhall? I enjoyed that way more than I expected.

I feel rather uncommitted now as I have done very few of the things on your list . I think I may have cut down alcohol a bit but probably still too much really (for TTC, not compared to the "safe" weekly amount) and have not really changed diet, exercise or anything. That said I already eat relatively healthily, exercise quite a bit with the ssssshhhh hobby, only have one coffee a day etc, so I hope that all helps on the balance scales!

Yes thanks nelly, source code! I thought meh when dh downloaded but ended up really enjoying it drooling

It sounds as if you're doing loads to me. My upduffed friends have done... nothing!!! And one still eats mcdonalds every lunchtime, one whose dh smokes weed every day and another that is still drinking. Not that I'm judging!

Thanks wine and LOL at your judgey pants

I wish OH would stop smoking. It's only one home-rolled cig a night, and his SA came back fine, but when I've asked he said no as he didn't see the point. He seems more on board now though, so I might tell him ask again.

It would be nice if the whole TTC thing worked completely differently. Every single couple would get a guaranteed pregnancy by completing a 'course' set by Mother Nature/God/The Government

For one month you must

1. Eat 100% healthy
2. Completely give up smoking, drinking and caffeine
3. Exercise every day
4. Take folic acid

At the end of the month, you are freed from imposed restrictions.

Like a mini taste of ttc, and a lesson in what it's like to put your need for a baby ahead of yourself.

Disclaimer: I don't think anyone here is bad if they haven't done that list - I know I've not done any of them!

I really don't know about the healthy eating thing. I just think if you're going to have a problem, you're going to ahve one. Healthy eating isn't going to sort it out unless of course you are terribly overweight or underweight. The alcohol thing is confusing. The amount of people i know who drink far too mcuh and whilst they ttc'd all had no issues getting pregnant. My father was an 80 a day ciggy man in his 30s (yuk) and they conceived 3 kids. However, of course when you get to our stages, you can't help but try things just in case it does sth.

wine - i like your silver lining. Tis good. We will all be better people and better mothers because of this. Although currently i have turned into a she-devil. And does Gillian McKeith have a style diet ? . I was surprised to see that she had kids and had them mid - late 30s as i've always thought she looks terribly unhealthy. She was very strange on last years jungle celebrity! And I'm going to meditation next Wednesday too. When are you off?

Have a lovely weekend everyone.

Joycep, I didn't mean it as advice for us. I still drink alcohol, eat take out, and don't exercise enough. I meant it as an alternate reality 'ideal'. Where no one ever has trouble conceiving, just a simple check list.

I agree with joycep. The healthy eating thing is balls (unless you are v overweight or have a truly terrible diet - but think of all the pregnant people in poor countries who don't have much nutritious food to eat who still manage it). There have been studies on the effect of fags, booze and caffeine so cutting down on those is sensible if you are having problems. Exercising every day would leave me too tired for swi. As far as I know, folic acid has no effect on fertility (but does a valuable job of reducing spina bifida).

There really is no rhyme or reason for it. For most of the last century, almost everyone smoked, men and women. They were all pretty fertile. People who drink heavily will get up the duff the one time they forget to use a condom.

It would be nice if we could "pay our dues" and win a baby but it's just not that simple and I don't think ttc-ers should think their failure to lead perfect lives is in any way responsible.

folic acid is good for sperm apparently. But in a "normal" person these things wouldn't make a difference I don't think. We all know people who do all the wrong things and manage it. However, I did read somewhere (and DH was told by urologist) that smoking is bad for sperm and does have an effect. Obviously, it doesn't matter for most men but if you have a slight problem it might be enough to tip the balance. There is also a study that I read that showed that men who smoke increase the chance of a miscarriage happening because of chromosomal damage.

Hello,

I've downloaded bridesmaids! And we are having pizza, I've had to "make my own" as Dominoes dont do a full house anymore, annoying!

There are all sorts of things that effect things though aren't there, like tight trousers, non cotton pants etc... But I also keep coming back to the African ladies who get up duffed in the middle of wars during famines etc,

I agree with you all too. I've posted something that's easy to misunderstand, sorry.

joycep agreed, Gillian is hideous! But I quite like her cookbooks. It's a bit odd for me with food. I was quite anorexic in my late teens to mid twenties. I really am fixed now but eating green, organic and generally woo stuff is my probable last hangover from the disaster that was me aged 16-26, not particularly because of ttc. A quick look along my city alerts me to the fact that there is a rather fertile community of mcdonalds munchers! Thats twice I've slated off maccie d today. I actually like their nuggets! And milkshakes.

I like to think that time didn't do lasting damage, and consultant thinks not because I'm ovulating. Best left alone in my head! But i do eat all things full fat and cake and chocolate, it just doesn't occur to me to snack or eat much fun stuff, dh reminds me though and generally all is good. I haven't weighed myself for um 8 years? But I was weighed for my pre-op last week and it wasn't great . I just haven't had much appetite because I've been so ill. My bmi is now 18 which is prob not ideal. Dh has bought sticky toffee pudding and clotted cream for later and croissants for breakfast. Sorry to outpour about this on here, but it does worry me. My acupuncturist is being very good at suggesting foods though, and also said I was a bit too thin. When I was in hospital years ago I was always warned about the effects on my later fertility, but having a family seemed a life time away then.

But, on a cheerier note, we are cooking a big fat chilli and I'm on little glass of wine number 2. I hope this isn't the last post before the weekend, it feels a bit glum.

Stasi it's fine, I knew what you meant! A kind of 'prescription' that would work. And biscuits I knew exactly what you meant about the weekend away. But you're so thoughtful, I know it will be fine.