TTC/ pregnancy on Prednisolone or similar part 2

[Arianrhod]

Starting up part 2 of this thread since the old one closed at 1000 posts!

iggi lots of luck for today, hope it's nothing - I know it doesn't help but I know lots of women have spotting and/or bleeding in pregnancy and it still goes ok. Definitely call the EPU, get scanned - it's worth it, honestly, at least you will know one way or another. Virtual hugs coming your way.

free I also started AF properly this morning, so looks like we may be both importuning a friendly witch for a good fertility spell on Hallowe'en? I know exactly what you mean about the scary stuff ... a small part of me was actually sort of relieved when I didn't get a BFP purely because it means I don't have to go through the whole worrying about miscarrying all over again. Bizarre, but there it is.

iggi yes the group is so small so no real substantial value in anything noticed! It is a bit 'dangerous' even poking about but hopefully some of us can find some comfort, or direction in some of you guys further along. Am sure you will be ok , is easy to say and natural for u to feel vulnerable. Looking forward to meeting up those who can make it. I'm staying away from stats now. Am dpo 12 and more blood today so think that is that - had 2 margaritas tonight in consolation and staying stay free for a few weeks - trying anyway. Hope all is well in our world. A tricky time in the cocoon world right now for many x

iPod meant staying stat free

AF here but I guess I knew it.. hence the margaritas and typos last night! Ahh well I was first in the OV/DPO line....best of luck for some of you moving over to the new group xx Here's to try 3..

Morning all, I last remember looking at the clock at 3am, and I woke up naturally at 7.40am. Thanks Pred! Weirdly i don't feel tired - another thanks to Pred. I had manic energy highs last night too, got really stressed and had a mini flip out about all the things I need to go before going away. All felt somewhat overwhelming.

Another BFN this morning from me at an estimated 10DPO (assuming ov was CD14). I even wasted a FR one rather than a Poundland cheapie. I notice the Poundland cheapie says can be used from day period is late, which isn't early enough obviously. So if no BFP tomorrow it is either intralipids in the US or BFN, which am fine about the latter, it's just intralipids in the US will be a pain.

Sorry about the BFN this month Duggs, yes you were first in and first out, which makes you first in to try again soon too. Nice work on the margaritas!

Talking of Stats - is it only iggi and I who have had a mc on the treatment? iggi did you start the treatment late with that pregnancy? I started on time and had the whole shebang - intralipids once and higher level Pred.

Snoopy I don't feel bad about my experience at 19 either. Even if I never go on to have children I don't regret it for a moment. Think how different our lives would have been. It would have been a terrible thing to happen to me at that time. As it is I know I have had a brilliant life so far. If the worst comes to the worst and I can't have children I know there are a lot of fun ways to live!

Battery not sure about whether you should see Mr S or not - why don't you drop the clinic a line? He certainly seems to have some egg-encouraging potions available but maybe he considers three months isn't that much to try. Worth asking. Like Comedy, Puree and others say Pred can mask symptoms.

The thing with me is I swear I AM getting weird symptoms and I am still getting BFNs. Might just be imaginary or from the drugs. Or of course I am worried that something is there but it's just not very strong iykwim. Sue I too was hoping that my symptoms couldn't just be down to the drugs and HAD to be something else but now I am not so sure.

I hadn't heard about Pred causing nausea either Ari and Coley did someone mention that? The Hydroxy I've had added does cause nausea though and I was certainly getting some at the beginning of the week. Coley it is really reassuring for me to hear that even with your DD you only got a faint positive at 14DPO. It helps me with my fear of faint positives after the last time (the mc on Pred - foetus never grew and had ERPC at 8 weeks - all tests had been faint except a CBD which was spot on).

Kittens the nk cells thing is fascinating. I mean, is there a possibility that we might be immune to other things too? I am not really trying to think back to when I was last ill and I can't remember it was so long ago! I used to regularly get a bout of hard core cold or flu that laid me out for a good week but haven't had that for at least a couple of years.

Talking of which, has anyone had the flu jab? I do want one but I am wondering whether that will be a step too far when on all the drugs etc.

Cherry, my NK Cell Level Twin, I joined you last night in the manic stages. Haven't yet had moonface this time but last time (as I was on the high dose for a while for the failed pregnancy) I definitely did and I also noticed I was a lot hairier. Actually for the first time ever I had threading about three times on my upper lip (when I got my eyebrows done) which I was really embarrassed about but the good thing is it hasn't come back! I fully recommend it.

Euro did I ever say thanks for the PM? Sorry if I didn't. Can't wait for your appointment, although it will be another couple of weeks after that until you get your results.

Phew, that was a long one and got tons of work to get on as my Roid Rage can attest :)

Roid Rage ... ha! love it free

Morning ladies .. I was just doing some research into the possible effects of corticosteroids on ovulation, since the reaction of my CBFM this cycle really surprised me (I know CBFMs aren't always reliable for some ladies, but mine has always been reliable for me). Essentially the oestrogen line never really dropped enough although the LH line did darken (but not as strongly as it should have done for a Peak indicating forthcoming ovulation), although my CB digi OPK had very dark lines as it should and as I mentioned, did clearly indicate approaching OV.

I understand prednisolone is generally felt to sometimes mess with ovulation, but being a curious sort I wanted to see if there was any actual scientific study into this effect.

Anyway, I found this study in the online Journal of Endocrinology, which might be of some interest:

EFFECT OF CORTICOTROPHIN AND CORTICOSTEROIDS ON OESTRUS, OVULATION AND OESTROGEN EXCRETION IN THE SOW

R. M. LIPTRAP

SUMMARY

Corticotrophin (ACTH), hydrocortisone or prednisolone trimethylacetate were administered daily to sows from 24 hr. before oestrus or from day 14 of the cycle until the end of oestrus. Treatment beginning on day 14 delayed the peak in urinary oestrogen excretion normally seen, postponed the onset of oestrus by 1?3 days and shortened the duration of oestrus. Treatment begun before oestrus did not appear to alter the pattern of oestrogen excretion but shortened the duration of oestrus. Administration of ACTH, but not that of corticosteroids, also interfered with ovulation.

joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/47/2/197.abstract

It's interesting (for me) that this shows an effect on oestrogen excretion in the urine - this after all is one of the two things the CBFM tests for.

Sorry, these things interest me, I like to know exactly why things are doing what they appear to be, if you know what I mean. Geek mode off :)

I think you did free but you certainly have now anyway! Hone your cynicism and come join us.

Sorry to hear you are out this cycle duggs. I'm due Monday/Tuesday and pretty certain that this cycle won't give me a BFP.

Arsicles duggs sorry you're out this cycle . Brie, pate and more margheritas tonight as a treat.

ari very interesting. Is oestrus the same as ovulation? If so, then taking pred on the same day as you'd expect to ovulate (ie during the LH surge) can delay it? But taking it the day before before doesn't delay it, just reduces the amount of oestrogen in your urine?

free still too early to call it for you I think.

Have a packed weekend ahead. Seeing friend who's due imminently tomorrow morning, NCT friends in afternoon - haven't seen for ages so will be announcing. Visiting ILs on Sat - first time since officially announcing, they knew before but it wasn't allowed to be mentioned, dreading it actually for some reason still don't want to talk about it with them. Family round for Sunday lunch. Then off to glamorous Centerparcs next week.

Crikey ... I just went to look at the definition of oestrus (also written as estrus) ... see here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrous_cycle , I now know waaaaay more than I ever wanted to about this stuff!

oh god - not something to click on while eating my lunch!

Gross article ari doesn't do much for my self esteem being lumped in with cows and pigs! Although fascinating that in the human female we apparently start having sexy thougts just in time for OV. Mother Nature is amazing! .... do they think only men think about sex the rest of the month!! Perhaps we are just too busy thinking about baking cakes and knitting...not

LOL at the thought of me baking cakes and knitting - am incredibly domestically challenged. In fact right now I think the steroid are making me very jittery - my hands don't work properly when typing and grilling myself some fish fingers (classy!) for lunch was a particular feat. It's a jitteryness that eating doesn't seem to cure too.

I've never been to Centreparcs Digi but they sound fascinating! What a great time of year to have a break too.

Does not explain sexy thoughts whilst PG (or maybe it does, couldn't read beyond first paragraph). I have had several nights of rude dreams involving DH and various other imaginary men wanting to have their wicked way with me.

And now you know why I didn't cut/paste anything from that article into here .. I thought it just rather too much for Mumsnet!

Well I do have a sneaky liking for baking ... cakes, that is ... but that's mostly so I can eat them afterwards. :) Any other form of domesticity is right out, I'm afraid, probably much to DP's disgust.

Mmm Now you've got me thinking what I can very quickly have for lunch ... can't be @rsed to cook anything much beyond a boiled egg, I never bother cooking for myself, too much hassle. Being veggie that does produce some challenges, there aren't many quick things you can throw together (except salad, and I'm right out of that).

Oh Centreparcs ... I've heard they're good, digi, have you been before? I'm trying very hard to think of something nice to do to celebrate DP's 50th birthday next Feb, but nothing too expensive since it will have to co-incide with DD's half-term and all holiday destinations put prices up madly during school holidays. Wonder if Centreparcs somewhere might be an idea .. although I guess not in this country, given the weather here early February is pretty rubbish!

I've got that jitteryness too free, and as you say, eating doesn't seem to make any difference. Not nice :(

I have had those type of thoughts when pg too digi! Weird isn't it. It can't be an evolutionary thing as we had them when already updiffed by one man - so not a survival of the fittest type thing!

Ari I am a non-meat-eater but I do eat fish. Not sure if that is actually fish in fish fingers of course.

Am trying to calm myself down and get rid of these jitters by making my physical movements nice and slow but it's not working very well. Agggh! I feel like shouting my head off and picking up a car at the same time!! I actually have a PT session in the gym later but for some reason my desire to lift traffic always seems to wane when faced with dumbells. And I have to tell him to take it reasonably easy of course just in case I am pregnant.

Sorry to hear AF has arrived duggs - it is really a tough time knowing when to test or if we should just wait and see if AF arrives.

Have any of your found that pred delays AF?

My nausea from yesterday seems to have disappeared and I'm fairly convinced I will have a BFN this cycle. I am temping and still high temps but who knows? Will test Sat AM and then stop pred if no positive. Luckily I have had no side effects whatsoever from the pred - maybe slightly more hungry but nothing over the top. Fingers crossed it stays the same next cycle!

free - I have the same trepidation about faint positives that you do. All my pregnancies have only started as faint positives and luckily one has been successful. I think it must take a while for the Hcg to get into my urine? I hope you have an answer either way before you go away.

Speaking of travelling - what is Dr S's stance on travelling whilst trying and having treatment? I'm hoping to book a trip away over new years with the inlaws but don't know if I can as I don't know if I will be pregnant.

Good luck to all those testers in the next few days and look forward to some BFPs!

free, in answer to your question about being immune to other things - I rarely get ill and don't tend to catch bugs even when my OH has one and breaths into my face all night long! I have had more bugs since being on pred than I have in years!

I too am a non meat eater an am often frustrated by the lack of quick and easy things there are to eat for lunch without faffing about making something or eating cheese which is not the healthiest thing to eat on a daily basis.

I don't think there is a problem with traveling coley. I asked the consultant at his NHS clinic the other week because of all my traveling to France and she said it's fine. You can fly up until 36 weeks but to take any sensible precautions to avoid DVT on longer flights. The only problem with traveling would be if you have to have intralipids, as free's early testing frenzy indicates.

free "Roid Rage" is a term I have been using since my first week on the Pred. And sadly, like you, the invincible energy feeling doesn't carry through to the gym. Oh gawd, I'm not looking forward to starting them again next week!

I have just sent and email to Mr S's private clinic to find out if I can get a private appointment just to get the fertility drugs and to find out how much that would cost, just for the appointment and prescription. If I wait for my referral on the NHS it could take 2-3 months to get an appointment and then there's the waiting for test results, waiting for a follow up appointment and then finding out whether they are willing to give me the drugs empirically as I have a feeling my results will come back normal. By which time I will probably be 45! I might go belt & braces and get the referral too just to check there isn't a problem though, and hopefully cancel it due to being up the duff.

Hi all. Not read the article, nor sure I want to frankly, but I thought I'd add that I get rather, umm, horny coming up to ov. Not sure how that makes me fit in with farmyard animals but guess I'll have to read it later and find out. :)

Not feeling much of anything today tho do feel I'm fighting a cold or something. Great time for my immune system to be on fight alert if that's how these things work. Have had the odd af like low tummy twinges. Bit icky driving to work this morning too. I've had to go onto 5mg Pred this cycle as nearly out of 25's. They don't seem as nice to my stomach and are chalky and taste horrible. Never found that with 25s so am wondering if anyone else has found that and also if that's the simple explanation for my symptoms this month?! I do feel quite calm and "whatever happens happens" though.

Sorry Duggs about the bfn this month. Enjoy the break and crack back on next month.

Finally, fortunately my dh is a way better housewife than I am - I've never been troubled by a pred fired need to tidy and clean. Yet.

Oh my god, get Duggs to add that to her chart quickly - we are all particularly bad at housework :) and there are at least three of you who don't eat meat. Gosh, imagine if mr s told us to go eat steak and start doing some bloody housework.

Re travelling he told me if i was pregnant he wouldn't want me to go too far away but I think that was just so I can make all appointments and scans. I am having a holiday booking dilemma too as I want to go away somewhere hot at new year. Going to wait until know what happening this month to book.

Help please....does anyone know if there is anyone down at NLC that you can talk to re advice when Louise is away? On the subject above re travelling and Itralipids ...I emailed her last week and left voicemail and no reply. Just tried her and she is now away training. It's just on the being away and Intralipids being nearly a week late before I get back to UK (IF i get a bfp this month) Ov is imminent (Moo)! and still not sure to TTC if it's going to be a problem. May have to get them while away like free if needed. Can the nurses advise?

Sorry about your bfn dugg good luck for next month. x

hi all. In answer to free's questions, yes I have also had a mc while on the treatment (first cycle). Saw Mr S on Monday (minus toddler, managed to trick him into an extra afternoon at nursery) and he got me to have another NK test in case I am one of the small % of people whose cells go up even higher in pregnancy. I think that also may be because i have had 4 mc in 14 months and 6 mc in total. And have not had a cold since I have had my son come to think of it....

so depending on the results of that test I may go up to a higher level of steroids when we try again in Jan.

On that topic, I think someone else asked, I had my flu jab a week after this last mc. I didn't want to have it while I was in the first trimester and rattling with drugs - no scientific basis for this of course.

i have also been inhaling sushi had having very hot baths. think I need to add magharitas to the mix!

snoopy you could try speaking to Cheryl at Epsom NLC. She is the one who just emailed me back and on the details it says she is his PA

snoopy I'm now going to forever link OV with cows!!! I don't know anyone at NLC yet, but why not email the office (Cheryl), she might be able to tell you who else to talk to?

The pred and nausea ... sorry, maybe I misunderstood, I thought Coley you thought the pred was making you nauseous a couple of days ago? Certainly I'm feeling mildly bleugh today, and I can only attribute that to the pred, it's too early at 6dpo to be anything else!

Bit of a success to report on the acupunture front ... following last night's session, I actually managed to get a better night's sleep than I've had since Saturday. I still woke up a few times, but not as many and I was at least able to go right back to sleep, which hasn't been the case the past few days. Cautious success, I think. My acupuncturist said that pred "heats" internal systems (hence why many of us get hotter on pred, I guess) and mimics dehydration in the body - or causes dehydration, I'm not sure. Including the ever-lovely constipation (sigh), and a host of other things. Nice :(

Thanks kittens but spoke with her last week and she said call Louise! Never mind spose I'll just have to take a chance.

Oh bugger, that's annoying! Can she give you an idea of when Louise will be back?

I've just spoken to Mr S's NHS PA to chase up my last NK Cell test results. She isn't allowed to give me the results herself but they have been put in the letter to my GP which he will get next week. She apologised for being "cloak & dagger" about it but couldn't tell me but said that there was nothing to worry about but there would be a slight change to my treatment. Hmmmm. I wonder what that's all about! I hope I don't have to take 40mg. The 25mg make me feel bad enough!

ari sittin here laughing, breastfeeding/expressing with DS also brings to mind similarities..oh the joys of being a woman.. yes will email cheryl ta.

kittens she is back on 14th. I am dreading the pred 25mg for first time in couple of days at ov then 40mg on a bfp. Starting to wonder what I've got myself into. Are you going to be taking the drugs this cycle again? If so they need to get your doses sorted out quick don't they as you are next to me on list for oving shortly?