TTC/ pregnancy on Prednisolone or similar part 2

[Arianrhod]

Starting up part 2 of this thread since the old one closed at 1000 posts!

iggi lots of luck for today, hope it's nothing - I know it doesn't help but I know lots of women have spotting and/or bleeding in pregnancy and it still goes ok. Definitely call the EPU, get scanned - it's worth it, honestly, at least you will know one way or another. Virtual hugs coming your way.

free I also started AF properly this morning, so looks like we may be both importuning a friendly witch for a good fertility spell on Hallowe'en? I know exactly what you mean about the scary stuff ... a small part of me was actually sort of relieved when I didn't get a BFP purely because it means I don't have to go through the whole worrying about miscarrying all over again. Bizarre, but there it is.

iggi Just echoing what the others say really, it could easily be 'just' a stomach upset, especially with the medications, pred is known to really mess up the whole gastro system. I'd certainly ask your midwife about the possibility of some reassurance, the worst she can say is 'No', right? Try not to worry too much, and keep yourself as hydrated as you possibly can.

free I've wondered the same thing about the EWCM to be honest, I'm not sure how you tell - but I get confused with the texture/consistency of my CM all the time, so I'm really not the best judge! CD15 for me too, and as far as I'm aware no sign of OV for me either yet. I always get a lot of OV pains and haven't had anything yet, and I now have the Fear that this is going to turn out to be an anovulatory cycle. But then the rational part of me says blow that, it's the pred buggering around with your body. shrug I don't know. My CBFM showed a High this morning but that could be because I had to start a new pack of sticks, you're not supposed to change packs mid-testing but I've used more this cycle than I would normally and ended up having to start a new pack. The stick certainly showed a much fainter oestrogen line than yesterday, but FSH line isn't showing any signs of getting any darker, so it could just be the different stick registering differently. Certainly OPK last night still showed no OV imminent.

Hate this, just when I thought my cycles were back to normal, off it goes. Grrrrrrrrr ...

/waves to everyone else, hope you're all feeling fab this morning and didn't get too many ghosties and ghoulies keeping you awake last night

I have never really been able to stretch my cm as it were but I have noticed that for two days around when I get the ovulation pain it's slippy upon wiping in the morning. BTW am I spelling slippy wrong? Wondering why it is underlined in red when I type. Surely it is a proper word?!

I am feeling a bit sad for my friend actually. I've just had a text message - from my best friend from school, the one who is having the bad scans after IVF - and she has started bleeding heavier now and is going to A&E. I do hope it all goes well for her but it's not looking good. Could be a haematoma? If she has a miscarriage I am definitely wanting to get her checked for NK cells. I realise it is a controversial area of treatment but she has tried for years to get pregnant, no seen problems, had four rounds of IVF with one chemical and now this.

slippery free :) don't think slippy is technically an English word (although it could be these days!)

Oh no, your poor friend, I really feel for her :(

Doh, and there's me a writing professional 'n' all. You just can't get the journalists these days!

Yeah, I feel awful for her too. It's bad enough having recurrent miscarriages but when you are having IVF to get pregnant in the first place it makes it even worse, if that can be possible.

free I wonder if my logic might help your friend? IVF is such a big investment - financially, emotionally and physically - that I want to be tested for the immune issues before I go there because if my body is making embryos but they just are not implanting, there is no point pumping myself full of drugs and then paying someone 5 grand to create an embryo in a lab only to have that not implant. With four rounds of IVF she is further down the line to me but maybe it makes sense to spend some money on immune testing before putting herself through more IVF? In my case, if nothing shows, I will sheepishly say goodbye to the pred thread and believe it is truly just a matter of time as there is no medical reason why I shouldn't get pregnant by myself (or with IVF help). At least I will know. It's nothing like the emotional impact of a miscarriage of course, but it does make me a bit sad to think that my body might be booting out tiny embryos month after month.

iggy I really hope all is well.

iggi Oh honey, it's really really hard to resist The Fear. I think we all have our MC 'warning signs' from previous experiences that just happen to crop up in perfectly normal pregnancies (which, btw, is what you are having). Mine is headaches and also Sinister backache. Some nights I have back twinges as I'm trying to fall asleep - I wake up and realise they're gone. I agree with the others that there are plenty of much more likely reasons why you are having an upset stomach. Hope your new job can distract you enough today. Your next scan is on Monday right? Do you think you can hold out till then?

free oh that is very sad news about your friend . I would definitely plonk the 'Is Your Body Baby Friendly' book down in front of her, along with Mr S's number and also the ARGC (they are one of the best fertility clinics - Dr Dimitri is a consultant there who treats for immunological issues).
As for your spunk/ewcm conundrum - I think just keep going til its not slippy anymore. I usually find that the days leading up to ov are the slippiest then ov day itself is not normally that slippy but cervix is always wide open. But then not sure if you ever got as far as cervix position checking!

Had a bit of Fear myself last night after realising that I'd not felt any flutters for a few days. Had quite a lot of aching yesterday, so just think my womb is expanding a bit more and maybe baby has a little more room to swim around and isn't able to touch the sides as much! Oh well, will find out how everything is doing on Monday. Poor DH got it in the ear about how Bloody Disorganised our tiny house is and how the hell are we going to fit a baby in with all it's crap on top of all the crap that we're already drowning in...think I was feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Tuesday 1st Nov List
TTC
duggs1976 - High/V High NKCOv 28 Oct. Pred.TTC #1 Testing 11th Nov?
batteryhen - High activation NKC, factor v leiden. TTC#1 Testing 12th Nov?
Suemays - V High NKC TTC/ov 31st Oct.
Freelance - V High NKC TTC#1 /ov 1st Nov. Hydroxchloroquine, Pred, Intralipids. Thyroid/hashimotos.
Arianrhod - V High NKC, MTHFR homo, hypothyroid, TTC/ov 1st Nov
eurochick - awaiting first appointment (in Nov)/cd9/ov 31 Oct-2 Nov
ChoccyPud - V High NKC / TTC #1/ 4th Pred cycle/ov 3rd Nov
Cheerfulcharlie V High NKC (intralipids on BFP, no Pred) TTC/ov 5th Nov.
Snoopygirl - V High NKC TTC/ov 16 Nov ish/will be Ist try with Pred Itralipids
Havingkittens - High NKC TTC again from November

BFP
Stogan - V high NKC - BFP 9/7/11 cycle#2- 21+3 Due 10/03/12
Digitalgirl - High NKC - BFP cycle#2 -16+1 Due 16/04/12 next scan 7/11
Coconutfeet - V High NKC, Factor II gene mutation, underactive thyroid - BFP pre-pred, started at 6 weeks - 13+0 next scan 15/11
Iggi - High NKC & Hypothyroidism - BFP cycle#2 - 10+0 next scan 7/11
Comedy - V High NKC - BFP cycle#2 - 9+4 due 1/16/12 scan 2/11
BrownieGecko - High NKC, Hypothyroidism, & Glucose Introlerant. BFP on cycle 3 of Clomid - 8+5 next scan on 2/11
Scooterchaser - V High NKC - BFP cycle1 - 5+2. Due 01/07/12. Scan 10/11

Hi guys

This thread moves so fast - I was about to post last week to say that I matched up with scooterchaser exactly - yay scooterchaser- but sadly mc over the weekend. which takes mc to 6 in total. So pretty devastated - my hopes were so high that this one was going to be the one.

best of luck to everyone with twinges and aches and odd pains. I looked back at my diary from when I was pregnant with my DS and I had constant back ache and cramps in the first trimester - so it can be a really positive sign.

will see Mr S on Monday and hopefully waving to a few of you in his clinic. I'll be the one with the out of control toddler in an inappropriate setting so quite easy to spot.

I've taken the liberty of adding myself to the TTC list below.

Tuesday 1st Nov List

TTC
duggs1976 - High/V High NKCOv 28 Oct. Pred.TTC #1 Testing 11th Nov?
batteryhen - High activation NKC, factor v leiden. TTC#1 Testing 12th Nov?
Suemays - V High NKC TTC/ov 31st Oct.
Freelance - V High NKC TTC#1 /ov 1st Nov. Hydroxchloroquine, Pred, Intralipids. Thyroid/hashimotos.
Arianrhod - V High NKC, MTHFR homo, hypothyroid, TTC/ov 1st Nov
eurochick - awaiting first appointment (in Nov)/cd9/ov 31 Oct-2 Nov
ChoccyPud - V High NKC / TTC #1/ 4th Pred cycle/ov 3rd Nov
Cheerfulcharlie V High NKC (intralipids on BFP, no Pred) TTC/ov 5th Nov.
Snoopygirl - V High NKC TTC/ov 16 Nov ish/will be Ist try with Pred Itralipids
Havingkittens - High NKC TTC again from November
pureequeen - High NKC TTC #2 again from November (BFP cycle one but mc)

BFP
Stogan - V high NKC - BFP 9/7/11 cycle#2- 21+3 Due 10/03/12
Digitalgirl - High NKC - BFP cycle#2 -16+1 Due 16/04/12 next scan 7/11
Coconutfeet - V High NKC, Factor II gene mutation, underactive thyroid - BFP pre-pred, started at 6 weeks - 13+0 next scan 15/11
Iggi - High NKC & Hypothyroidism - BFP cycle#2 - 10+0 next scan 7/11
Comedy - V High NKC - BFP cycle#2 - 9+4 due 1/16/12 scan 2/11
BrownieGecko - High NKC, Hypothyroidism, & Glucose Introlerant. BFP on cycle 3 of Clomid - 8+5 next scan on 2/11
Scooterchaser - V High NKC - BFP cycle1 - 5+2. Due 01/07/12. Scan 10/11

Oh Puree I am so sorry to hear that. Was that your first one on the treatment? It happened to me too if that is any consolation, I know when it happened to me too I found it really hard to track down other people from whom it has also happened as so many of the stories read 'got treated, had a baby'. But I have since looked into it and it's not completely uncommon. The best thing is to pick yourself back up and try again, which you appear to be doing. But it's awful, I know. I don't have any appointments lined up until I am pregnant again, so I won't be there to see you on Monday! But good luck with it all.

Digi how about putting the baby in a drawer to sleep? I've always found that quite cute :) Glad you are getting stretching pains, I think it is a good sign. I am definitely posed to post Dr Beer's book to my friend if the worst happens. She feels there is no hope - been given a scan at 4.30pm so we will know more then.

Hi all

Sorry to hear of the bad news Pure and fingers crossed free for your friend. Iggi I'd echo the others and suggest you try to find a time to get scanned or listen to hb to set your mind at rest.

Well I got a smiley ov stick this morning so back on the Pred a couple of days earlier than expected in contrast to free and Ari so who knows what's going on. Could someone update my stats with ov 1 Nov so testing 11th onwards? Can't do it on phone. Am therefore joining Battery on the 2ww and anticipate needing a slap myself shortly. :)

Tmi alert: On the cm/spunk identication thing, agree its hard to tell the difference esp when there's always plenty of the latter knocking around at the relevant time! On ov day regardless of what else is there I get stretchy lumps I'd almost describe it as tbh. Sorry - I did warn of tmi!! Hence why I hadn't previously bothered with ov sticks. Also get twinges on one or other side so expecting them later today I guess.

So I can't make suggestions re cbfm etc but I'd say keep on shagging until you aren't slippy (must be a word... Born Slippy is a great song!).

iggi if my office is anything to go by you've just got a good, old fashioned bug - and the steroids mean u even more prone to catching.
I've just sat for 3 hrs at my first st marys appointment - i was referred in the summer before dr s. So I thought I may as well turn up, although was a bit anxious as i ended up seeing mr raj rai who doesn't believe in nk cells. I did pluck up the courage to ask him outright and his response was flakey to say the least. not enough data, inconclusive blaa - ( I did imagine whipping out my phone and showing him our "list") they are state funded NHS so I do understand they need much more time to make these decisions - but I guess I am reassured that he told me nothing I hadn't read in Lesley Reagan's book.

He did say my scan showed a slight "septum" and he wants to send a camera in there - dec next appointment.

I don't really know what that is so dr google it will be, but it can impact on embryos at implantation stage. I am testing next tue or wed so once I know if I have a bfp or not will ask Louise.

Thank goodness I food dr s and u guys otherwise anti climax just isn't a strong enough word!!

freelance so difficult advising your friend - so many people do just take the advice of their consultant and as we've all discovered - how that advice can vary. Best of luck there.

puree hi just wanted to say sorry for your mc over weekend, that's rubbish. good luck with Dr S on monday and good on you for picking yourself up and getting on with things, it's so hard I know. Looking at the stats on list things are pretty hopeful for a BFP within first few cycles so fingers crossed for you x

digi and iggi hope worrying pains go soon and things calm down.

Good luck to the girls with scans tomorrow - can't wait to read the news.
x

Err I'm starving hence typo in last post - the word "food" snuck in rather than "found" - enough said!

Just wanted to say so sorry for your MC puree, with any luck (although that sounds odd) it was just down to an egg chromosomal issue and nothing to do with what you're being treated for. I know I for one am hoping this treatment will result in the next pregnancy being The One, but of course at the same time I know (especially with my age) any pregnancy is still liable to the egg not being exactly right, so there's still the usual chance of MC.

choccy Woohoo on the OV front, get to it girl!

I think I've put you in the right place Choccy. Euro I do hope you have high NK cells in a way as then you will know how to start treatment. And you can stay here and chat either way of course. duggs really interested to hear about St Mary's. You might have missed it but Digi was seen by them too. I don't think they gave her anything but it is reasurring to be tested. I am still waiting for an appointment from them! My first referral in April went missing and I had another one in early Sept so I hope to see them as well. Might as well take any investigations we can.

Updated list:

TTC
duggs1976 - High/V High NKCOv 28 Oct. Pred.TTC #1 Testing 11th Nov?
batteryhen - High activation NKC, factor v leiden. TTC#1 Testing 11th Nov?
Suemays - V High NKC TTC/ov 31st Oct.
ChoccyPud - V High NKC / TTC #1/ 4th Pred cycle/ov 1st Nov
Freelance - V High NKC TTC#1 /ov 1st Nov. Hydroxchloroquine, Pred, Intralipids. Thyroid/hashimotos (MC on cycle 1)
Arianrhod - V High NKC, MTHFR homo, hypothyroid, TTC/ov 1st Nov
eurochick - awaiting first appointment (in Nov)/cd9/ov 31 Oct-2 Nov
Cheerfulcharlie V High NKC (intralipids on BFP, no Pred) TTC/ov 5th Nov.
Snoopygirl - V High NKC TTC/ov 16 Nov ish/will be Ist try with Pred Itralipids
Havingkittens - High NKC TTC again from November
pureequeen - High NKC TTC #2 again from November (BFP cycle one but mc)

BFP
Stogan - V high NKC - BFP 9/7/11 cycle#2- 21+3 Due 10/03/12
Digitalgirl - High NKC - BFP cycle#2 -16+1 Due 16/04/12 next scan 7/11
Coconutfeet - V High NKC, Factor II gene mutation, underactive thyroid - BFP pre-pred, started at 6 weeks - 13+0 next scan 15/11
Iggi - High NKC & Hypothyroidism - BFP cycle#2 - 10+0 next scan 7/11
Comedy - V High NKC - BFP cycle#2 - 9+4 due 1/16/12 scan 2/11
BrownieGecko - High NKC, Hypothyroidism, & Glucose Introlerant. BFP on cycle 3 of Clomid - 8+5 next scan on 2/11
Scooterchaser - V High NKC - BFP cycle1 - 5+2. Due 01/07/12. Scan 10/11

thanks guys, I really appreciate the support and good wishes.

Just talked to Mr S's midwife who has made me realise that we won't be trying again until January as we need two "clear" cycles before starting again.

Desperately trying to look on the bright side as I melodramatically feel my eggs shrivelling and dying with every week that passes and we are not trying....I can drink champagne at Christmas- weh hey!

purequeen so, so sorry to hear this. I must have missed your earlier post. Will be interesting to hear what dr s says. freelance you've gone through this whilst on his treatment plan - it must be so much more difficult (if that is at all possible) when u know the plan of hope is not a blanket miracle. Just out of interest "purequeen" did u go to dr s as a self referral?

I am fantasising that we could all live in a big cocoon house somewhere gorgeous and be real life support for each other until we conceive and make it to the " safety zone ". No one can be as supportive as people who are or have been going through similar journeys. If we can be of any help even if just with information just post as however irrelevant it may seem it might just be a rock to upturn that one of us hasn't considered?

I only discovered you guys a week ago and I already check back here all the time

So sorry Puree, I hope this'll be the last time you have to post that - good luck for January. (Btw he told me to wait one month after an early mc, but I suppose we're all different).

Free, I seem to have stopped having ovulation pain in recent months - clearly there are still eggs on the go though! Doesn't help you plan though, does it.

A BIG thank you for all the posts today trying to calm me down - I'm reaading them on the bus on the way home, no reception for MN in my new office on my phone, and everyone can see my pc screen! I don't feel any better, ate soup for lunch but nothing else (if you knew me you'd know how rare that is!) I hope dh will be ill when I get home (awful I know!) so it will seem like something I've caught.

puree am so sorry to hear of your mc . It's incredibly unfair when it happens on the treatment - the one thing you can take away is that you did everything you could to prevent it - so it's much more likely to have been a chromosomal issue. That may not sound helpful now but when I found out my last mc had been down to a chromosomal problem I was almost glad to have got my 'bad luck' one out the way - and felt the odds would be much more stacked in my favour next time.
Hope you recover quickly. I remember Louise saying 2 cycles, but Mr S saying one. I'm not sure if this was because I had such long cycles (my WTF cycles average 60 days), or if he is just v aware of how much time is of the essence.

duggs I also saw through my St Mary's referral. They didn't tell me anything I didn't already know but they did do a TEG test which is the time sensitive test Lesley Regan mentions in her book. I think thus can pick up a certain clotting disorder in some women that other clotting tests don't pick up. It's worth getting it ruled out though. Tbh I was on aspirin when I had both the pre-pg TEG and the pg TEG - so not sure if I skewed my results but they both came back normal. I saw Mr Horner a couple of times and was up front about my treatment with Mr S - I was partly expecting them to ask why I was there if I already had a diagnosis but they were fine with seeing me - just cheerily told me they wouldn't be able to prescribe any of the meds for that treatment. It wasn't a complete waste of time as they scan you every two weeks from 6 weeks till 10/12 - so you can ration your scans with Mr S if you need to cut costs.

Pure- so sorry to hear about your mc. You sound very brave and positive and it is at least a good thing to have a break from trying again over Xmas. Don't be afraid to let it all out on here.

Iggi, I agree with other comments that tte progesterone can cause stomach upsets- doesn't it slow your digestive system down? It always causes stomach problems with me. You could always try a bit of acupuncture to ease it, it is supposed to be very good for digestive issues and very good for the first trimester.

I'm very interested in any charts or stats on our group! Bring on the pie charts! It's interesting to hear that many of us or our mums have autoimmune probs. I have nothing diagnosed and my mum easily conceived my brother and me (did have one suspected early miscarriage in-between) but has recently suffered with vitiligo , joint problems and lactose and glucose problems which I think will be autoimmune things.

What's the general opinion on alcohol when ttc? I'm thinking if I am going to have to give up when I get a bfp I kind of want to have a little glass or two when I'm in the ttc phase, but should I stop before ovulation?

I'm about to ovulate but going on a 5 hour plane journey on the day of ovulation or thereabouts and now worrying the radiation will harm the egg and spermies about to fuse. That is total rubbish, isn't it?? I hope?

Anyone else doing cyclogest from ov? I've been prescribed this by my other gynae (I think dr Shehata said just from bfp?) but I tend to spot before af so this is to stop the lining breaking down before implantation.

Better go, it's bedtime and it looks like I'm ovulating in a day or so ;-) ....

cheerful I am about to get af and ov hopefuly around 16th nov. I am still drinking wine of an evening but trying to generally cut down. I'm sure moderate drinking won't harm anything up until BFP, but hey I'm no medical expert. Wine expert yes!!! I stopped with my son when found out I was pregnant at 4 weeks with him, although was in France stuffing cheese and wine as I didn't know. Oh and on the other point I'm only on Cyclogest from BFP (if I get it!) Wonder if I should have told Dr S that I get slight brown watery discharge before af. Is that what you would call spotting?

Oh to add to the conversation my mum had 3 m/c's before 3 successful pregnacies. Dr S did ask about history of mother. I think she said she was tested back in 64' and was told she had a lack of magnesium or something.

Hello all, bad news from my friend - she has had a miscarriage confirmed. I just feel so awful for her - 4 rounds of IVF (fortunately on the NHS) and all the waiting, egg harvesting, injecting, drug taking, healthy living and everything that goes with that, her first proper pregnancy and she has to go and have a miscarriage :( Apparently the sac has gone and the rest of it is on its way out so she just is at home waiting for the 'products' to pass. Just so awful. My heart breaks for her.

It's so strange that this is my very best friend from school, the one I did everything from the age of 7 to teenagers when we moved away from each other. I have Dr Beer's book here waiting for address as I really think she needs to get tested for NK cells. Poor thing though, we all know how much this sort of thing sets us back. And it's not like she can just go and have sex to TTC again either.

Puree they asked me to wait two cycles after the miscarriage too. Mr S said it was to give my body a break from the Pred. I was really frustrated by this at first but it went quickly and I have really enjoyed the break - eating and drinking, going out and having fun, not taking excess drugs, going to the gym, not having to check my pants every minute... I am a bit reluctant about the whole TTC thing now! But I know I have to get on with it as it is the only way I will ever have a successful pregnancy by keeping on going forward.

Duggs I am up for the big cocoon house I envisage it like one of those homes they used to send pregnant teens to back in the day to quietly have their babies out of wedlock. Except a lot more luxury :)

Interesting about the lack of ovulation pain Iggi. And we can safely say you definitely ovulated! I might have to poa ov stick tomorrow just to check. And just keep hard at it...:)

CHeerful I think I have forgotten but are you not in the UK? Or just have a very early bedtime . I am fully for drinking whilst ttc...but don't listen to me, I'm a recurrent miscarriage sufferer... Really, I think a few drinks isn't going to do much harm considering. And yes, you are fine on flights I have looked into it. Cyclogest only on BFP for me.

Snoopy even the mention of wine and cheese makes me want to crack open a bottle. Actually I am pretty good with not drinking at home - so unless I go out that means I don't tend to drink on weekdays. The trouble is I have what technically amounts to 'binge drinking' on the weekend. I am going to try to limit it to three small glasses of wine at a time if out now and that only one night a week. Hard though. Hmmm, wine....

To add to our mum's pregnancy history theme I had a chat with my mum earlier. I knew she had never had any miscarriages but her periods were very irregular and she took years to conceive my older brother. She said some months she didn't have a period at all and had no idea when she ovulated. She was very thin though but says she doesn't think it was that as everyone had a 22 inch waist in those days! They must have starved... I quizzed her to see whether she might have been having chemical pregnancies and I don't think she was. But she does have the early stages of arthritis.

What's a WTF cycle? Assume it's not What The F*ck!!

Puree I'm not sure if advice is different with the Pred regime, but after my mc earlier this year at 8+ I was told to wait until after af had returned but not that I needed to wait another cycle after that. After September's chem pg slash possible mc at ~5 weeks, Louise just said to crack on straight away. We were pretty sure it hadn't implanted from the timing of when I bled, which I assume had something to do with her advice. But everyone's different. You sound pretty pragmatic at this stage and as Digi says you're doing all you can to prevent it, so maybe this one was just bad luck. Use the time over the next couple of months to regroup and look forwards... New year new start?

cheerful I am also partial to a bit of wine, but I'll stay off the booze from now for the rest of this month out of paranoia. Also I found I went RIGHT off any alcohol when pg especially red wine (my favourite thing to drink!). I tried G&T, beer... Just couldn't bear any of it. I confess to more than making up for it after the ERPC.

freelance so sorry for your friend. What a journey. my mum had 3 mc - 2 before me then another one then my brother. Back in the 70's they prescribed progesterone injections -which she thinks is why I am here as they moved house when I was a baby and her new dr didn't give her progesterone - didn't believe in it and she
mc again. She got pg again and had the progesterone injections and my brother was born. I mentioned this to raj rai today at st m and he said there has only been I study done with 123 women over last 60 yrs and said that is why they are currently working on the largest progesterone study trial and would I like to join.but I might get a placebo tablet. I didn't bother to tell him I already had 3 packs waiting for me at home thanks v much. Of course under other circumstances I would be v up for helping medical research ESP in this field. It does make it easier to see how nk cells trials haven't got that far by nhs standards.

Anyway we all covered as dr s says no harm to have them when pg.

Can the cocoon house have hot tubs and wine cellars pls?

free just read your post..so sorry about your friend, but she's so lucky to have you there to talk to and give her support. I can't imagine what she's going through, mc plus the knowledge that it will take time to even conceive again. If she can afford the NK test suggest she goes for it, even if only to exclude it.

Right, off to take my evening cocktail now the aspirin's dissolved...

free so very sorry to hear about your friend. I hope the Dr Beer book rings some bells for her, and she finds some answers.

choccy I've always rather liked the notion of a What The F*ck cycle

I'm definitely up for the cocoon house ... I'll bring the wine, if you like, I don't drink! (not that I haven't tried, LOTS when I was younger, I just never found anything I could bear the taste of :( ). Hot tubs ... well bizarrely we have one in our garden, in a sort of summer house ... don't ask, we didn't put it there, it was there when we moved in. You're all very welcome to use it :)