Assisted Conception (and all the bits in between) volume 8

[lucylookout]

Looks like we need a new thread for Italian, Scrummy, Beginnings, womanly, lissy, rowing, fretfree, Teds77, keziah, frustrated and anyone else who wants to chat about assisted conception!

Hi everyone, could I join this thread please? I think I qualify. After trying for 15 months we're being referred to fertility specialists for further testing/assisted conception, don't know what to expect, or even what to think, I think I might just cry for a week. Then be poked and prodded by well-meaning doctors. It wasn't supposed to be like this

JosieSmith1 welcome. Yes, it is not meant to be like this, it is a slog. But somewhere along the route you find the things that help. And if you are fortunate you get your lovely take home baby. I was lucky 7 years ago and got my darling DD and if I did not have some confidence it will happen again I wouldn't have been on this road. So although it is tough I think the alternative (of not trying) is tougher. And whatever you find that helps you, whether it is being nice to you, or getting fit, or getting clued up with lots of reading up, just do what works, and if we can help, we will.

Thanks, ladies.

Lissy congrats on the scan ? a girl, how fab. Hope the piles will be sorted out soon.

Keziah thank you for your prayers, I do appreciate it.

Rowing thanks for the handstands. I appreciate your efforts.

Londonlottie lovely to hear from you.

Mojangles you sound really great, you sound like you have bounced back. So Jan it might be! Our FET will most likely be January so maybe we will end up as cycle buddies again!

Flip, Scrummy, weller, level, Lucy, Beginings and tametortie thanks for all your kind comments and thoughts.

I did re-test and it is still negative so I know it is what it is.

Love to all.

Italian just wanted to send you some and hope the ((hugs)) with DD have helped with the sad news. I'm a lurker more than a poster but your posts always seem so positive and I've found they help with me with the 'slog'. Thinking of you xx.

Thanks Italian that really helps. It sounds like you've had a tough time recently, I'm glad you can still be positive about this whole process

JosieSmith1 you are very welcome and I'm sorry that you are in a position where you have to join us. The best piece of advice I would give you is to keep questioning all of the time. Make sure you understand what you're being told and don't stop until they give you an answer you're happy with. We went blindly along for the first few months without doing enough reading. Now I question everything and will not accept no for an answer unless I'm sure it was the right one. Also, depending on your circumstances and issues, make sure you think outside the box. Sadly, the NHS would probably never have been able to help me or if they had, it would have taken a lot longer than it has done.

italian I too am praying for you and crossing everything for your FET.

Thanks Beginnings I will remember that. I was at work today and someone announed they're pg, someone else is bringing her newborn in sometime this week, and someone I know has just had a scan at 13 weeks and now my fb is full of her scan pics and congrats messages. There are actually no words for how low I'm feeling today. I bet you've all been through this aswell [hsad]

Hi all,
Italian I hope you are OK. Please take it easy! Do you have a blood test and review coming up?

I'm just popping in to say that AF arrived and I have to start my progynova now. EEEEEEK! I'm so scared!! [hides behind sofa]
The Euro is so high at the moment, it's killing my budget [what budget] I had hoped not to use anything but savings, but it's going to be so hard. Oh well. Sorry, not sounding very positive at the moment, but it is so expensive all this and this is treatment number 5. Grrr! WHy us!

rowing here's a virtual hand for some handholding....((())) we'll be here to support you. Really hope you get to have a baby at the end if this one.

Welcome Josie I too am in early stages of this journey and have already had my fair share of fighting for our rights. So do take beginnings advice to your heart. If you want, I'm happy to do the run-down of what to expect in the early stages. Do you mind me asking how old you are? It is sometimes hard with other people's babies. I've been fairly good recently but just found out our neighbour is pregnant and i must admit my first thought was 'why her and not me?'

Italian how are you doing? I want to give you a big hug - but please know that you're being prayed for (yes, i've even started saying prayers for us all :))

welcome Josie you're in good company here. i've found much comfort from the lovely ladies on this thread.

rowing i'm so excited for you - stuf the Euro and go for it

Hi to everyone xxx

Hugs to Mojangles thanks for your lovely comments.

scrummy glad your scan was fine. What is the plan?

ted thanks for your lovely kind comment.

Josie it is up and down, it takes you by surprise. Maybe enjoy any bits you can (like the feeling you are taking control), take time away from it (don't let sex become all about TTC), find people who you can share with - like us online or if you do meet people in real life who you find are helpful, take the help, and survive the other bits.

Beginnings and pocket thanks for your prayers, what kind of a pray-ers are you? If I may ask. It always amazes me when I mention prayers that others come and say they are praying for me, so lovely.

Rowing hugs to you, get those Progenova down you mate. It?s scary; it?s like jumping in a cold swimming pool. Just dive on in. I know it is hard but we are all willing you on. We have a follow up with our ?man? next month at the clinic and then I am just hoping that we can get the treatment in by January.

Josie I 100% second Beginnings advice about questioning everything, making sure you understand what you are being told etc. And yes, it is hard, but I guess we have all had different experiences. My advice is also to do what is right for you in terms of how you cope with friends etc. I have tried it all ways. I have told people how their pregnancy made me feel, and I really do not recommend that route. A pregnant friend (or even colleague) can?t help being pregnant and it is not their fault you are not, and sometimes to talk with them about it is more painful than helpful for both of you - especially for you. But it is your call. So I have avoided people and situations which I know would make me feel uncomfortable. But in such a way that I did to need to explain or admit why!

Josie Other times I have ?forced? myself to be in the situation with people for brief times and although it was hard I have felt better for it, stronger, only you will know what is right for you. One thing that happened to me was I went to see a friend with her new baby in hospital, I sat on the bed and held the baby and a tear slid down my cheek. About a month later I was taking a pregnancy test and I was pregnant! Just as I was sadly dancing at a friend?s wedding alone, years earlier, when (unbeknown to me) a lovely man was waiting in the wings to meet me! I guess what I am saying is we do not know what is around the next corner. I so much hope a lovely baby is around our corners and for all of us.

I was in a restaurant today and saw a baby. I was feeling very generous of spirit after a beer and started chatting to the baby! He was covered in food, as they always are! But I said some nice, kind things to the young mum and dad, because I know that parents love to hear all that. I was not gripped by any urge to run away with the kid! It's kinda nice to see others kids, saw how cute they look but not have to deal with the contents of their dinner when they have worked their way through to the nappy section. pregnant ladies this post is not for you! pregnant ladies your babies will be the kind of babies who (in the words of the cute one from Peek show) do poos that look like Maltesers and smell of popouri!

I am amazingly feeling very well. I don't know if it is madness but I don?t think so.

Well, I am enjoying some things that I have not been able to enjoy for a few weeks - a beer, tea with caffeine it, sex with my super-hot hubby who has the body of a 22-year old! That's what I am choosing to think, anyway!

Today at work we had a really good kind of service thing (you guys know I work for a Christian organisation). It was all really positive and uplifting and ended with a service where we got the chance to pray with a colleague. I prayed with a young woman I do not know very well and we both ended up in tears. I did not need to explain why I was crying and she did not ask, we just shared a few words and prayed for each other and it was really touching.

I know that being a Christian does not make life any easier but it does make it better for me, it doesn't give me any easy answers but I felt a real sense of peace.

I must be honest and say I am not feeling very positive about the fact I have three possibly low grade embies in the freezer - I think I will call them snowflakes instead of in the freezer! I am thinking of Serentis, Jenever and May. I just kind of want to get the treatment over and move on. I know everyone says be positive etc but I don?t know that I can anymore. I just want to give it a go and then move on. But maybe last year I felt the same way, and once we are back into the stride of injecting etc, I will be different, hope will take over! I think I know now, also, that unless something major happens to change my and my hubby?s thoughts we will look into adoption. DD has asked a few times if we can adopt. She carries around huge teddy almost as big as a sibling and I so much wish to give her that sibling. But I kind of feel maybe this womb has run out of steam! Like my clapped out oven at home it is naff. I must admit I do not feel as sad or bitter as I thought I would. A couple of days ago I felt like a total failure but now I kind of feel OK. I had been led to believe that with donor eggs it would all be OK but after two different donors and two different donors we are still baby-less. My last look into it will be a final glance at immunology issues and see if killer cells could be my problem. So if anyone knows anything about natural killer cells or can send me any links, or tell me any personal stories, please feel free. I am all ears.

Hugs to you all.

Italian wow. You are doing so well. I'm so impressed by you. I'm a sort of lapsed Catholic by the way......lots of faith and belief and enjoy my new testament, have a couple of motivational challenges with the institution of the church.....

I had raised NK cells. Hence the steroids which I started on day four of stimming. Most people start on day 7 but I have a short cycle naturally so they started me early. I started weaning off them at 12 weeks as it's just a first trimester issue. I don't have any links to hand, I'm on the train at the minute, but I'll try and post some later. The Lister gave me a paper of their research and that combined with talking to them was my main source of info. The tests are expensive and there are only,i think two places in the UK where they're processed. Otherwise they're sent to Chicago and are often referred to as the Chicago tests as that's where a lot of clinics still send them. Mine were done in Epsom.

Rowing don't be scared!! This is the good bit! We're all cheering for you and are right next to you as you do this.

Bit of news from me, and I really hope this doesn't upset anyone but we had our 12 week scan yesterday and all is very well. We're very pleased. Oh, and the working title is the Grommit. Ladies, i can't begin to tell you how much I've valued the support here since I joined in June and I'm wishing so hard for good luck for you all.

Thank you so much everyone. I had a bit of a breakdown last night but luckily DH was there to hold my hand and talk me through it and although I'm still pretty sad, I know we'll be ok no matter what the outcome and that we will always have each other. We've agreed to work on our relationship so that WHEN we have a baby we can give it the best possible home.

I'm really pleased everything is well Beginnings it must be so exciting!!

Italian I'm not religious myself but I can understand how it might provide comfort, especially in times of need, and sharing that with someone, without exchanging words, sounds like avery supportive community

Scrummy a run-down of what to expect would be really really helpful, I've always been one to want to know everything and not just leave it to the docs. If it helps, I'm 26, DH is 27, my BMI, blood pressure etc is normal, regular-ish 27-29 day cycles, blood tests showed my oestrogen is high and progesterone is only just over what they would expect to prove I'm ovulating. My GP thinks I might have a cyst, or less eggs than normal, and is worried that my progesterone doesn't prove I'm definitely ovulating

Just wanted to add:

Rowing I have no idea what that means but by the sounds of everyone's responses it's exciting so I wish you the best of luck!

Go Rowing go! We are GOING to have a BFP on this thread this autumn and you're GOING to be it! I'm with you on the euro - what's that about, when all we hear is that the currency is on the brink of collapse? I keep hoping that it'll drop a bit before we go back to Greece.

Italian I know what you mean, I actually felt a bit relieved (as well as sad and angry) after my BFN. There's so much pressure on during the 2WW and when it goes, even for a bad reason, you can breathe again and as you say, enjoy some banned things.

Very good idea to look into natural killer cells. But (rant alert) this is one of the things that absolutely kills me about the system here and what drove us to seek treatment abroad: why put you through an expensive test, or, in the case of several people I know, multiple miscarriages before investigating? Steroids are inexpensive and correctly prescribed will have minimal side effects, and can save so much heartache - IMHO they should be prescribed as a precaution in cases like these. My clinic does it as a matter of routine. (rant over).

Josie welcome and good luck! There's a lot of wit, wisdom and support on here and it sounds like you have lots of time and the right attention to make an excellent start.

Scrummy glad things are progressing and I hope the clinic sort out their errr communication issues, well done for picking them up on it!

Beginnings congratulations on little Grommit! Hope s/he keeps going just like this for the next 28 weeks.

LondonLottie eek to a sudden move with twins! Your hubbies work sounds a bit like it expects regular upheavals from its staff - I hope there are benefits to match

waves to everyone

xxx

rowing hope your treatment goes smoothly for you this month.

Italian glad you had that service at the right time for you and your faith is a source of comfort and strength for you. I really recommend testing immune issues - apparently they tend to be worse after having one pregnancy. We saw George Nduwke (now in london) who did our Immune tests, as that is his specialist area, - level 1 and 2's (2's are the NK cells), well actually he told us to get as many done by gp as possible before paying for the rest and for us that was the issue (along with blood clotting), so I really rate it. Different dr's have different protocols and for us we like G's fairly relaxed approach, in that we were discharged after 8-12 weeks, with no more retests (cheaper to have another intralipid than restest), whereas I know places like ARGC really look after you - so depends what you are looking for, where you live etc. Think some Dr's now do telephone consults as well. We weren't able to go down the adoption route, but if that is your next step after you use your snowflakes (hope they stick though!) then I am sure some child will be blessed by having you.

Italian - we had steroids (also for NK raised), levothyroxine, 3 intralipids, clexane, aspirin, higher dose of utrogestron/gestone instead for our immune issues. The cost in total was about £1200 (as needed everything to week 12). Main cost was intralipids at £285 a time, but at least they came to our home for that!

Italian I'm pleased you sound so at peace and am glad you have your faith to help you in this difficult time. It sounds like immune testing would be a good idea for you before FET (interesting that it can be worse after one pregnancy, I never knew that Keziah). I have had mine done at ARGC, but I also read a book called 'Is your body baby friendly' by Dr Alan Beer that explains what can go wrong with the immune system and what that results in. I believe he was one of the forerunners in realising the importance of immune issues and successful pregnancies, and is held in very high regard by current practising doctors. I know you like your research Italian so here's the link:

www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Body-Baby-Friendly-Unexplained-Infertility/dp/0978507800/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319024337&sr=1-1

Welcome Josie. I'm sorry that you find yourself here but I hope we can help. As the others have said, do whatever makes you feel better. For me as soon as I had an appt, I felt better as it meant things were set in motion. Wait and see what the results of all the tests are, but keep telling yourself that you're young, and your eggs are young, so with any luck you will receive successful treatment very soon.

Beginnings congratulations on the grommit (ha!) Sounds very lovely.

Rowing yay for starting treatment. I know you have your worries, but that IS exciting! And remember, it's grim determination and perseverance that wins this game. You'll get there girl!

Mojangles good luck with the health kick. January's just round the corner!

AFM I'm fine. Second dose of Humira is on Friday. The fact that I have no idea what my cycle might be doing this month is possibly a good thing, it means I can't calculate when AF might arrive and get all wound up about tests etc. I'm having to relinquish control a bit and just go with the flow (which is soooo not me, but hey, I don't have a lot of choice).

Hi to everyone else!

Hi all,

Thank you all so much for your support, I'm feeling a lot more chilled today. It is just one of those things you kind of get on with really isn't it, you know, when the initial panic subsides!

Lottie OMG so you are headed back to the UK then? How are you feeling about that? Did you get used to the lovely, tidy, Lindt chocolate-laden [she dreams] Swiss toddler groups?

Moja I KNOW, those blooming Eurocrats keeping the currency high. There are some more big decisions coming in the next week or so, including allowing Greece to default on some of the debt, so I'm holding off buying until then. I feel like a forex trader, you can see how exciting it must be to completely bankrupt a country by buying and selling currency. [hconfused]

Italian you sound as if you are dealing with this very well and being super-philosophical. Still though, pamper, pamper, pamper! Get a manicure!

Scrummy thank you for the hand holding!

Keziah how are you getting on! Are you back in the swim? Are you racing those young, fit men or staying behind the flowery-capped, breast-strokers?

Lucy now you're getting it! Reliquishing control, that's the name of the game! I tried the control thing, didn't work! In the end you have to just carry on with life as normal or end up in a padded cell. Do you find yourself postponing or not committing to things just in case you are in treatment or pg at that time?

Josie that sounds like a good talk with your DH. Thank you for wishing me well in my mysterious treatment. I have had a couple of IVFs and Fets with my own eggs, none of which worked and this is my second frozen embryo transfer (FET) with a donor embryo - so this is actually going to be my sixth treatment (can't count! )

Beginnings I was wondering where that cheering was coming from. how are you feeling?

Pocket you are right! Somebody needs to keep that old, European economy afloat - and that's my job!

So day 2 of progynova, have to organise yet another smear and get the bloods done because my old tests are now too old for the clinic (over 6 months). Hope I get everything back in time - hahaha [crazed laughter]. Oh it's so much fun doing everything at the last minute!
Down Euro! Down Euro!

Glad you're feeling better today Rowing. I can honestly say I stopped not planning things in case I was pregnant about 8 months ago, and around the same time started buying clothes again that I liked, even if they were slim fitting etc. I do however find myself not planning stuff now in case I'm having treatment. I think that's more of a practical thing though so am not beating myself up too much about it. [hsmile]

Beginnings thanks for sharing your lapsed Catholic state. I?m a lapsed Anglican! Well, I now attend a free church but I love the dear old creaky Anglican Church too. I feel at home in most churches (and sometimes not at home in them at all!). Happy to hear any links you have got about NK killer cells, please. When you say you have a short cycle, how short is short? Mine was always 25 days, which is short. I have had Predisolone and also Clexine, but I am wondering if I had them soon enough! (I also had baby aspirin but I think that was for something different!) Enlighten me, please, dear Beginnings! Please do send me the paper if you feel able to. My email is my name here, my pretend age (39) and that is at the usual yahoo dot co dot uk address, please. No worries if you will not be able to do it or can't share it. No worries at all.

Beginnings Please do no think that we will be upset by the news that Grommit is all well. We are delighted for you and you r little one. Big hugs.

Josie hugs to you. Thank you.

Mojangles thanks, and yes, I agree, but we did have steroids so was that what that was for! Maybe we did not have enough! Please see what I wrote to Beginnings and feel free to add anything.

Likewise for you dear Keziah, please see above and below. We did have some GP tests and we ended up with a very similar list to you:
steroids (not sure exactly what for) Levothyroxine for my thyroid problems, with TSH is now less than 2 (hooray!), clexane, aspirin, utrogestron (what this higher dose stuff, gimme gimme gimme!) What are intralipids at £285 a time, and how many do you need!

Hugs to Lucy go with the flow and may it be flowing to baby-land!

Rowing have bitten my nails well down, a manicure not on the cards but maybe a pedicure one day! I have had them before and love them!

tametorti how are you honey? Hang on in there.

Rowing - Yes, planning, yes, tell me about it, I have spent six years not knowing whether I could eat prawns when I pre-order my Christmas meal weeks ahead! Now I feel blow it, I will order what I like!

Flip, Scrummy, weller, level, Lissy and all - hugs and thanks, thanks to you all lovely people.

We used to say on this thread hugs and chocolate boobs to you .

Serentis, Jenever and May are very safe in their snowy kingdom, but I want them with me. So basically we will try again as soon as we are allowed to, which is hopefully January. It all comes down to the medical side, they like me to have two or three cycles, so that is 50 to 75 days, about 9-11 weeks (I guess at least 8, or maybe 9 at the least), but possibly more.

Hugs to you all.

My goodness this all sounds extremely complicated, what have I let myself in for! I'm feeling a little less 'down' about it now the shock has settled in a bit. Just hope my appt hurries up, I'm desperate to know what's going on.

Hope everyone is ok, loving the hugs and choccy boobs [bisuit]

JosieSmith1 it is all complicated but remember that those complications are different for all of us and there is a really wide range of issues on this thread. The good thing is that when we get together and talk about them, we can give each ideas of things to investigate as well as the support. If I were to give you a primer in this, I would say (and please others shout me down or correct me!) get the following checked:

• Get your DH checked. He needs to be checked for quantity, motility (movement) and morphology (shape)
• it sounds like you've already had blood tests done but make sure they've checked your FSH (follicular stimulating hormone) levels. These should be below 10 and if it's not, then it MAY indicate a problem with ovulation but don't panic as they can go down. Mine have ranged from 14.4 to 8.8
• also get your AMH (anti mullerian hormone) checked. Someone else will have to remind me what the levels should be. Mine is very very low, which is not good as it gives a strong indication of low egg reserve. That can cause issues with ivf as it means that you can find it harder to respond to the stimulation drugs. Again, don't panic, they got 10 out of me the last time!
• get your thyroid function and iron checked
• have yourself checked for blockages, cysts, etc that could be causing a structural problem. Some of these can be treated and you could go on to conceive naturally
• you'll hear us old timers talking about immunology tests and other tests for clotting issues - often referred to as level 1 and level 2 tests. These are important and many can be done at the GP but some you have to pay for and are very expensive. I'd do all of the above before I'd start those.

I should say that I have no medical training at all but I wish I'd had a list like this a year ago, so I hope it helps. Others may change some of the stuff I've suggested and give more ideas.

Italian my love i would be delighted to give you the paper. I'll go and have a hunt online for it though as I'm now away for the weekend. Worse case I'll scan it when I get home on Sunday and send it to you then, is that ok?

Thanks to all of you who offered good wishes on the Grommit. We're so pleased. I swear my belly has popped out since Tuesday! Trouser expanders, here I come!

Did I just do bullet points on an Internet forum ???

PowerPoint addict, clearly!