IVF / ICSI - everyone welcome for questions, hand holding, and waggle dancing

[Gardenpixie]

Ladies, we ran out of space on the old thread so here is a sparkly new one with dedicated areas for waggle dancing, hormonal outbreaks of bonkersness, sniffing, injecting and progesterone pessary related fartiness.

For anyone thinking about starting IVF / ICSI or going through it at the moment, do come and say hello. These wonderful ladies have kept me sane through the last few months and are a source of all knowledge concerning tests, down-regging, ov stimulating, DIY injections and much more so if you need any info or just some company, do join us.

So here's a welcome for everyone and an enormous waggle dance for many many more BFPs to come

Teds I am so sorry I didnt see you post as hadn't refreshed my screen.
I am so sorry for your BFN but you are so right to be looking to the next cycle as I am. Huge huge hugs, we might even be cycle buddies next time.
xxxx
ps avoid cat litter tray at all costs lol

Hello Ellan and Louise - thanks for welcoming me...

Ellan - sorry to hear your DH has problems too... it's really horrible for them isn't it - and horrible for people who love them too as there's nothing at all you can say or do to make them feel better... I have to admit I don't know what ICSI even is but I'm sure I will be an expert soon! I hope that things are going ok for you?

Louise -Thanks for your congratulations. We had an appointment booked 6 weeks ago, and then when we turned up we were just told it was cancelled and we would have to rebook. And of course the next appointment wasn't until 6 weeks time... so here we are today. I think it's just for information and to meet the feritlity people at the hospital... as we haven't met them yet. Sounds like you've had a horrific time of it, and I will be thinking of you toward the end of the year... are you a teacher? My hubby's a teacher and DREADING going back to work!

Millymoo

Hi ellan how are you? Onwards and upwards is definitely right xx

Hi Louise. I'm as well as can be expected- that is fine unless I try to talk about it then I'm a blubbering wreck! I had to go for the blood test this morning, which just felt so futile as I know already there's no way I'm pregnant. At least then I can book an appointment with the consultant here and talk about why it all went wrong!
Just so you know, you can be tested for toxoplasmosis antibodies to see if you are already immune. I requested it as I have cats, and have a field of sheep right behind the house which can also carry it. Lots of people are apparently already immune and it might give you peace of mind.
milly if the sperm are well below normal parameters, they do IVF but instead they take single sperm and inject one into each egg to fertilise it. My DH has a count of only about 1 million at the moment, which is not sufficient to guarantee fertilisation using standard IVF, esp as they don't swim well either. The formation of the sperm do seem to have improved a bit since he gave up drinking completely though, He drank about 20 units a week before I think, so a reasonable amount. Vitamins are always worth a shot too.

Hi Milly
We had ICSI because of DH low motility, they basically inject a sperm straight into the egg after 'washing' it for the most effective (sorry thats a bit basic lol) Its better than letting them swim around the eggs in a petri dish as you have a better chance of the egg being fertilised.

Yes I'm a primary assistant head, the IVF business is better to handle when Im at school because I literally dont get a minute in the day and the kids are totally adorable :-)
Back to school next week and Im always like this after every holiday, even get butterflies!!Once the kids are in after half an hour I dont feel the benefit of 6 weeks off work! Obviously this holiday has fitted in well with the IVF, things wont be as easy next cycle as Ill have to take time off work.
Is your DH a teacher is primary or secondary?

Ellan - Thanks, that makes sense - I do think it is amazing what medical procedures they can do nowadays... I think I had only really heard of IVF before. I have just re-read your posts and sounds like you've had a horrible time of it too lately... I hope you have lots of people around you being lovely to you! Also interesting to know about the cats... I have 2 little black furballs and should maybe ask for that test too. I am trying to wean DH off the booze. That sounds terrible doesn't it - he's not a huge drinker. Before we got tested we were being really good and not drinking at all but since he got his results I think he's just felt like that's it, and it's not going to happen, and he's given up with the healthy living and gone back to his usual 15-20 units. I've let him as I know it made him feel better short term, but I think that if we start looking into treatment I am going to suggest maybe he cuts back again. I think it really does make a difference doesn't it?
Louise - DH is secondary - starting as head of year 11 this year. After the summer holidays he always gets that sunday evening feeling, but it lasts about a week! He does love it really though. I'm lucky as I work part time, so I'm hoping that I can fit anything that needs to happen around by flexible hours, and yes I agree, I think that school will be a good distraction for DH.

Right... this is it - wish me luck - I will report back!

* Clasps fertility questionaire in hand, and walks out the door *

Well, just got off the phone with the clinic, they are going to get back to me with possible dates for the future but they have asked me to go on the pill to regulate things...anyone else done this before IVF, never even been on the pill...bizarre

Lou

Hello lovely ladies-well so much has happened and I've only been away the weekend.

A big well done to Boddecia and Nocake all sounds very positive. You must be thrilled. Big hugs and sending lots of love and thoughts your way.

I am so sorry Louise-I know only too well the horrid downturn after a BFP and suddenly its a MC-heart wrenching and my heart goes out to you and your DH. When it happened for us last year (after IUI) I felt lost really and was shocked at how quickly joy turned to absolute sadness. I know people say 'at least you've been pregnant and you will be again' and it is bloody annoying-I am trying to hold onto that concept and turn it into a positive for me! Some say its too soon to think about your next cycle but I did exactly the same as you and I think it helps you focus on something and the 'end goal'-obviously not everyone is the same.

Wanting also to say to Teds and Ellan am so sorry about your news. Its strange you said you both had a 'feeling'-I had that last failed cycle of IVF. Let's just get back on this bloody road!!-its going to be fine in the end I'm sure of it. We must keep the positivity going and the hope is still there.

Welcome Millymoo hope you find this place as useful and a great haven as I'm sure the rest of us do-it will surely provide some of the support for your 'journey'-sorry some people I know hate that phrase-such a cliche.

Well for me, 2nd cycle is well and truly underway-have my DR scan tomorrow to see if I can start stims-fingers crossed. I am now officially termed a 'poor responder'-yet another phrase to make me feel inadequate-so will beloaded with stims on both menopur and gonal-f-monster?? Well 2 more days of work and then a weeks holiday and then 2 weeks off sick-don't know if thats sensible in 2ww or not?! Work certainly don't do me many favours so am grabbing it with both hands! Off to cinema tonight to see one day-any good? Going to seaside for DHs birthday this weeknend. Decided re:accupuncture to give it one more go and then decide how the vibe is this time-will be asking my clinic if there is any connection between egg quality and short luteal phase-the answer will probably be 'not in western medicine' and then I suppose they don't have to endorse complimentary practices. Just what does it do exactly and how does accupuncture improve success rates of IVF so much? Am trying to be open minded about pins being stuck into me but she didn't make me feel relaxed-just annoyed and paranoid!!
xx

Hi all,

Louise, I was so sorry to hear your news. At least you know you can get on with another go soon. Haven't heard about the pill thing but I wouldn't go back on it if they paid me - I had a terrible time on it, and it turns out I didn't even need it anyway. It sounds like you are being really positive which is a good thing.

Cake and Boddecia - great news on your BFPs ladies.

Teds and Ellan, sorry about your BFNs, will you be trying again soon?

It's really interesting to read the causes of others infertility. We are also male factor - very low count (4-5mill) and motility (7-12%) - with no obvious reasons like operations. I think my DH's type one diabetes may have contributed, though there is no real research into this. We are both fairly young - I'm 29 and DH is 31 - so they are being quite optimistic about our chances.

We therefore also have to have ICSI.

How many ladies on here are having ICSI and how many straight IVF? If you are having/have had ICSI which cycle are you on/how many did it take for a BFP? Would love to know it is possible with infertility like ours.

I'm just waiting (im)patiently for my injection appointment a week on Thurs. Thing is, that is due to be day 1 or 2 of my cycle, so I'm hoping they'll let us start that cycle and not wait for a whole other one to start (they implied we might have to) :(

In the meantime I am also a teacher and have been into work trying to get everything sorted today - so much to do! Not too depressed about it yet - I will be on Sunday though!

louise I started the pill before my icsi cycle. I took it for 14 days before starting DR. It meant that as soon as I stopped taking it I had a bleed so wasn't waiting around for that to happen before I could start stimming. So my treatment went
14 days ocp then, 7 days DR then 7 days later started stimming, 14 days(ish) later EC.
HTH

Hi everyone,

Millymoo how did you get on today?

Owl interesting to hear you took the pill before ICSI cycle, as Ive never been on the pill before its all new to me. Can you actually control the day you start bleeding? It would be helpful for me to time my cycle this time around the school holidays in Oct or December as I will have to take time off unpaid.

Pumpkin thanks for your comments, people have said to me 'oh, you've got loads of time' and I feel like saying, 'it's ok for you..you've got 3 DC's and are not 30 yet!' Sorting the new cycle has made me feel so much more positive, just wish I'd had some frosties from last cycle as not looking forward to the Ovitrelle rash and progesterone suppositories!!!

cloclo my clinic include ICSI with all their IVF packages but I know in the UK this may be different as privately they charge you extra for the ICSI element. Back to school soon! A parent just passed my window (as I'm slobbed out watching Outnumbered) carrying a load of school uniform shop bags and wearing a big smile on her face! I am going in on Thursday/ Friday as I have some teachers starting who want to come in and sort their classrooms out (Im soooo impressed already!) My work is sadly home-based paperwork which I need to get on with asap!

Going back to slobbing in front of the television, school clothes shopping tomorrow and must do some housework (whoops) and washing (whoops)

Lou x

ps where is the lovely garden? xxx

Will you need to take time off unpaid Louise? I have spoken to my head (I'm in secondary) and he has been very sympathetic. I've told him I'll need two days for EC and a day for ET, as well as hospital scans, and he has asked me to give him as much notice as possible, and I will try to arrange cover within the department where possible (colleagues are very supportive). The consultant has told me they don't advise people to take any more time than this - he used the example of natural pregnancies, when people aren't even aware they are pregnant and therefore don't take time off. I may eat my words when it comes to it, but I hope he is right!

Hi cloclo
Because our clinic is abroad its harder for me to go there for individual appointments although as it was so straightforward last time I may try and book the monitoring scans and blood tests for follicle tracking in the UK as there are places that do this and fax the results to your clinic abroad.

I had two paid days off in July and the others fell in school holidays. This time I might see if I can get my day 2 bloods appointment paid, have my scans in the uk and fly home between EC and ET as its only a 1hr 40 min journey. Going to chat to my boss next week, they are great but I think I'm the first member of staff to go through this in a long time and its all new territory. The NUT guidance says its at the schools discretion.

Lou x

Ah, I had forgotten you were getting treatment abroad, makes sense that you would need more time. I'm fortunate that work is only 20-25mins from the hospital (though having said that, with trying to find a parking space I should prob add on 15mins to that time!).

I am not sure if anyone else has been through similar at my school - there are over 90 staff so I suppose somebody must have in the past though.

Im loathe to change clinics now as I had the same dr, nurse and coordinator with each appointment and I love them! It would be much easier to choose a new clinic in the uk though.

cloclo re. ICSI We have obviously just had the one cycle ending in BFN. The main problem seemed to be sperm quality as after day 3, none really developed properly. That's the main problem I think with ICSI from what I've read. Fewer embryos will make it day 5 on average, due to problems with the genetic material in the sperm. If they can fertilise naturally, only the strongest will fertilise, but when they're choosing, they have no idea if they're choosing 'good' ones or not. Having said this, the success rates for ICSI are just as good as for standard IVF, but this may be because some clinics are using ICSI for people who don't really need it, because it increases overall fertilisation rate.
My BIL and SIL have twins from ICSI. His count was around 2 million, don't know the other figures. Their first cycle failed completely, 2 poor embryos put back at day 3, no frosties. The second went to blasto, they put back 2 good ones, and had about 5 more to freeze I think. My conclusion- it's luck! The cycles were right after each other at the same clinic, so no other variables.
Just one more point about time off- I actually don't think I would have been able to work for at least 2 days after EC as I was in a lot of pain. It took me a week to feel normal again. This seems to vary hugely- Garden for example wasn't in any pain after her EC. I'm not trying to scare you I promise! I was just surprised by it that's all.
I am a teacher too incidentally (it seems to be compulsory on this thread ) although I am at home at the moment with my little boy so not working.

Teds I am so so sorry to hear your news, take care of yourself xxx

Thanks Louise you are really kind (((hugs)))) and thanks for the follicle growing vibes. Am sitting here with a hot water bottle trying to encourage them to grow (is this something I read somewhere or made up?!!!). Good that you have the beginnings of a plan for the next cycle, I am really pleased for you

Welcome Millymoo, all the terminology is so confusing at the beginning isn't it but you will be a real expert soon! Hope the appt went well. We are also being treated for male factor (motility) and also having ICSI. We had our first cycle last month but my follicles didn't grow as they were meant to so it had to be cancelled before egg collection (EC). Am on 2nd cycle now and going for first scan tomorrow to check progress. Very nervous!

Congratulations nocake that's lovely, wonderful news :)

pumpkin hope the scan goes well tomorrow and please let us know the verdict on One Day

Love to all xxx

Just lost long bl*ody post, gggrrrr. Sorry no time left as only just finished work and want to spend evening with DH as he's away for rest of the week.

NoCake, congrats, fab news .

Am so sorry Teds that it didn't work this time. Big hugs to you and DH, glad you're thinking about next cycle, am sure it has got a little superted written all over it xx.

Ellan and Louise, hope you're doing ok today - thinking of you.

Welcome MilkyMoo, glad you found us, this thread is full of lots of lovely ladies. Hope the appointment went well, its good to feel you're finally getting somewhere.

Shall be waggling tonight for Pumpkin and Dannygirl for your scans tomorrow. Hope follies are behaving Danny and Pumpkin we'll be here to hold your hand through all the drugs.

Waves to everyone else .

Hiya Ladies...

Well, what an interesting time I had yesterday!

We've definitely had it confirmed that we need IVF/ ICSI. I know that I already knew that deep down, but it still made me a little teary hearing it in the cold, hard light of day. I think deep down I was still a tiny bit in denial about it all.

So, what to update... because DH has only had one test he needs to have another one, as there is just a POSSIBILTY that he might have been ill or stressed or something and that's why the count was low... but the fact that we have been trying for 3 years and nothing to show doesn't mean it's very likely... so he will be tested again mid October to determine the best plan.

Also yesterday they did a scan on me, and found out that I have PCOS to boot - so that's another thing to throw on the pile... so I felt quite low last night...

The next thing for me is a lap and dye (eek!) in mid November and then we have to pick our clinic. We have a choice of Cambridge, Oxford, Hammersmith and St Barts... Does anyone have any suggestions what to look at when picking or have any personal experience?

Well, that's about the sum of it... I feel quite up and down today, but we've decided just to take things one appointment at a time and not try to think about the big picture yet... it seems more manageable that way!

Anyway, sorry for banging on about myself - I hope everyone else is ok? Pumpkin I've just finished reading One Day... does the film live up? Ellan How are you doing today? Louise Started planning any lessons yet?

Also Hello to Dannygirl I will be keeping everything crossed for you today - here's hoping for some supersized follicles! (I learned why that was impotrant yesterday - feel like such a novice!).

And hello to Skitoo, nice to meet you...

hi everyone, just a quick update from me. I had my scan today and saw a heart beat - we measured at 6w 2 days but now am officially discharged from the clinic and back with my gp. One day at a time.

hope the 2ww is going fast for you garden and skitoo - wave to everyone.

Hi everyone,

Milly delighted that you got the ball rolling and you will feel up and down at times for sure. IVF doctors don't consider PCOS a problem and with ICSI it only takes a few sperm, did they give you a print out of DH's spermiogram? There are lots of things your hubby could try to improve some of his sperm quality, did you say he'd been ill as a child? Cant flick between pages. You could try googling, we (he) did some of them, including giving up beer (or cutting down) etc and it did work.

So far not done anything school related apart from lose ALL my files from the computer yesterday! I'm non teaching now :-( so dont have any prep to do at the minute but it all kicks off next week so my workload will start up as soon as the staff hit the ground. Enjoying a few last days of peace.

Had another phonecall from the clinic today, they explained that I can go back on the pill today and take it until roughly the 10th October, Ill then come off it in time to start stimms. Guess we are back in the saddle then! I am going to book a private scan for 2 weeks time to check out my ovaries and uterus before the next round. Feel so positive for getting the ball rolling. It has brushed away the sadness.

Lovely to hear that everything is well womanly how is everyone else?

xxx

Hey beauties,
Scan went well-all downregulated so had to inject the 2 stims infront of the lovely nurse-am gonna be bloody sore with 4 injections a day but hey ho! I havn't really felt ill this time round so hopefully this will continue with the stims-was evil moodster last time! Have been given prov EC for 13/9-exactly 3 months from last time-don't know if thats good or bad?! Eek-am just so scared in case the same thing happens and we don't fertilise again. That means only 10 days of stims again-is that normal? My friend is certain she had 14 days. Don't want to chance a thing this time-it could be that I'm on a combination of menopur and gonal-f and they said its not cast in stone anyway. Also I asked a question and the nurses are going to ask the consultant. Have been taking pregnacare and also royal jelly tablets with ginseng but wanted to add co Q10 for egg quality-have any of you ladies done this with the stims or before?

Louise you sound so much better-you really are a trooper-I know its prob different story in private with DH but youre focusing on next time and I think thats good. What age group will you teach when you return to work? Hope they re well behaved kids?

Milly try not to get too down although its hard I know and it all seems like a huge kick in the teeth. I don't know about any of your choice of hospitals but I felt as if it had to be convenient for travelling to, I wanted to 'like' the staff but I suppose the general feeling is what are their success rates? Google the consultants maybe or go on 'Fertility friends' and look in the regional area bit-theres normally lots of chatter.

Dannygirl How did you get on my fellow scanner? Hope things are moving for you-one step at a time... We ll face it together (((( )))) I have heard about the hot water bottle thing-also massaging around ovaries (not sure about that as my tummy is so sore and bruised!) 'One Day' was good although anne hathaways accent was quite irritating (she says only a few words in a yorkshire accent and then sounds poshly english!) The male actor was lush though!-My friend has read the book and was very disappointed which I have read is the problem found by most reviewers-I havn't read it but it will be my next buy on amazon! Have just bought 'Inconceivable' by Ben Elton which is meant to be funny and also 'How to be a Woman' by Caitlin Moran as not everything in my life should be baby related!

Thanks for the hand holding Skitoo-I'll definately hold you to that! How you feeling?

Womanly that is fantastic news-Another mile stone achieved!

Anyway, lots of love to all-having a 'loungy evening'!! xx

Evening everyone,

Pumpkin Ive been non teaching for a couple of years now, because of the paperwork load it would be impossible for some deputies and assistant heads to teach a class. I do miss it though altohugh I do assemblies and children are often sent to me to show good work etc I do try to do some teaching as I worry Ill loose my touch! I have the younger children, 4-8, they are lovely.

4 injections a day, gosh that's a lot, I have got all that to come again....
At least EC/ET is not far away for you!

xxx