Clearblue Fertility Monitor Support Group Buddies Vol 4!!

[boba82]

Time for us to move home again ladies!

knackeredcow I bow down to your superior knowledge!!!!

Yeah it probably did work, and I will probably keep going with it next cycle, I'm just getting very frustrated at the late ov/short luteal phase. MC was in July and I'm starting to wonder when or if I'm going to get my normal cycle back!!!

storm I think the Chinese lanterns sound lovely, we're planning on doing something similar on my due date (21 Dec), as it's something nice we can do as a family to remember DC3 and DS and DD can be involved without it being morbid. I think it's a great idea x

Thanks guys, we did the chinese lanterns thing about a week after my termination back in may, just cos we both felt like we needed to do something - our baby was so alive in our hearts and although we never actually got to meet him/her it just seemed right.

We're planning on doing it again, like I said, for some sort of closure, cos every week since I've been like "I would've been 20 weeks this week and so on" - I've been counting down the weeks/months, every scan that would've been, every doc/midwife appointment that was never and every movement that I never felt.... for nothing really!!

Missy & Izzy you can write on the lanterns if you want to0 - just need a couple of them sharpie markers.

Thanks, yes a cry did help - just got lots out. Dh not well after a week on antibiotics right now (he is NEVER ill) so sending him back to dr's tomorrow and not allowing him to go to work. Got bit stressed about that, not sure why.

Missy - understand your logic. When I first went it was good to hear we were doing all the right things and I got offered general blood tests etc - to check things like thyroid etc, to see if any physical issues that can prevent pregnancy etc.

How weird I'm super nervous about seeing the doc. Hope he's understanding and doesn't just say carry on trying. Wish me luck girls...........

Hi ladies, just popping in (being back at work is very inconvenient, has severely curtailed my MN'ing
)
Good luck Missy, hope your Dr is on the ball.

Storm, I think the laterns are a wonderful idea, your post made me very sad for you.

Am still waiting on AF, day 33 - will it ever come? I thought it was settling down as last month was 28 days bang on, but no my body has other ideas

I have the huff today, bloody tube strike took me 2.5 hours to get to work

Best of luck Missy, let us know how you get on.

Good luck Missy

Well, that went better than I thought. He booked me in for bloods on day 21 which'll have to be next cycle now as I'm on day 24 today. I'm also going for a smear with std tests to rule all that out. Hubby will be next so I'll get him registered at the surgery.

I feel better just having done that. The ball is rolling.

Poor notnearly 2.5 hours? Wow. My cycle goes from 32-42 days so can empathise with you.

Thanks for good wishes boba KC Keziah and NN plus anyone else I've missed. A weight has been lifted for now. Next stop bloods. :)

Missy Did your doctor book you in for bloods on day 21? As your cycle is 32 - 42 days, this is probably a bit early. Bloods should be 7 days beefore AF due. So for you, anything between day 25 and day 35. They are going to be a bit harder to estimate.

When did you get your peak day on your CBFM this month. Just thinking you might not have missed the window to have them done this cycle...

keziah I promised to report back after my appointment with my GP re possible impact of 'depression' in my notes affecting my chances of receiving IVF. She was very reassuring, and said she didn't think depression should be a factor and that people had 'ups and downs' throughout their lives.

I pressed her though, wanting to know exactly what my notes said, and it turns out that although I was not diagnosed as depressed last year, one of the psychiatrists I saw has nevertheless written (after a 30min meeting) that she thought I was 'prone to recurrent bouts of depression' in ym notes. This little gem has never ever been relayed to me before. I was appalled that that was in my notes, and when I said to my GP I thought that was a big stretch to make after such a short meeting, my GP turned all 'expert' and said, "Yes, but these people do this all the time and they are trained and they know what they are talking about....".

So I guess because my notes say I am prone to this, that as far as anyone in the NHS is concerned, I am. This is despite the reality that I experienced depression once in my early twenties after a violent attack, and a second time nearly two decades later when I had a MC. There you go, expertly 'labelled'. Maybe I'm just stupid, but I'd have thought it not totally weird to experience depression in the wake of shocking traumatic events.

So although I am reassured that my GP thinks I should not be denied IVF based on my medical notes, I am nevertheless a bit bothered by the fact she insisted (thinking it would support me) that both she and the aforementioned psychiatrist should be involved in the decision if it were to become an issue. I have no idea what that pyschiatrist would think! So.... I just have to cross fingers it doesn't come up.

And I am more certain then ever that no matter how much of a crisis I ever find myself in pschologically, I will NEVER EVER again turn to the NHS for support. Learned my lesson well.

The only thing I can offer you in support though for you experience, was my GPs feeling that depression alone should not be a reason to deny IVF. x.

Actually ignore my last post Missy, I just scrolled up. You peaked on day 15 so you will need to wait until next cycle. My brain's not working properly today. Preparing for an interview tomorrow and v. stressed at the mo.

I peak on day 15 and ov day 16 (28 - 29 day cycle). I had my bloods done on day 22 and they were fine.

Choccie I am so sorry to hear what you have found out.

However, it does appear that you GP would be supportive. IVF can only be denied if you are likley to pose a significant risk to a child OR they do not have enough evidence to demonstrate that you are unlikely to pose a significant risk. Do you think it might be worth discussing the HFEA guidelines with your GP in advance so that you know that she understands it is about risk to a child and NOT your ability to cope with IVF. If she understands this and knows you are unlikely to pose any risk then it might pre-empt the situation and prevent her sending irrelevant information regarding your depression.

That said, I am really worried about what's on my medical records now. I have had three diagnosed bouts of depression in 10 years. I've had time off work, been on AD's and undergone counselling. All on the NHS. Fortunately, I've never seen a psychiatrist though, so maybe that's a good thing....

Thanks for advice KC I'll wait until AF this cycle then book in for day 21. I will mention what you said about 7 days before and see if they say anything.

Choccie how awful about your notes. Bloody 'professional opinion" What do they know after 30 mins? I hope it doesn't effect any treatment for you.

KC what is the next step for you now then? Have you has SA for DH? When were your bloods done? Sorry if you're repeating anything.

Thanks so much KC

After your heads up I did some research and even the NHS website says that (I did believe you but I needed some evidence incase they asked me where I got the info from) Anyway long story short, I'm booked in for my blood test tomorrow. I'm due on day 32 so thats 7 days before. It may be slightly wrong but I'd rather do it twice then wait a month.

I hope I've done the right thing.

Missy That's great news and it stops you having to wait one month for a test that was going to be done on the wrong day!

When you have the blood test done, check that they have actually ordered progesterone. My GP had forgotten to tick the box so first time round they only did LH/FSH, oestradiol (not really necessary), TSH, rubella antibodies and fasting blood glucose.

I had my bloods done on Wed 20th October, which turned out to be 8 days before start of AF, but the progesterone levels showed that I had ovulated. I had had my initial set of blood tests done (when they forgot to do progesterone) 4 weeks prior, so the error did cause a one month delay in referral grrrr

DH has his appointment with the andrology lab for his SA on 18th November. Once those results are sent forward to FC, we should receive an appointment through as GP has already done the referral.

Sorry for long absence ladies. Hope everyone is well. Unable to read back as just "dipping in" from mil's bedside: she's taken a turn for the worse re: kidney disease with diabetes.
Good to see you getting closer to your goal KC. FX for you hunni x

choccie that's pretty shocking, a lesson to us all about reading our notes! As you say though hopefully it'll not be an issue for IVF for you. Can you make a complaint & ask for it to be removed?

Missy glad you've got the ball rolling.

Hi fedup, hope your MIL is ok?

KC - all the best with interview.

Choccie thank you so much for that feedback. It has made me feel better, that:

• 2 people here are ttc and undergoing tests and have history of depression, i.e. it is not just me.
• your gp said it shouldn't be an issue
• other people have supportive gp's.

I have got my gp to "talk" which is helpful, but awaiting clinic's decision!!

KC and Choccie - it is interesting, isn't it. I would recommend being honest on the forms if you get as far as needing IVF etc, as not being honest is probably worse!! But also, I am now more hopeful I will get treatment, and if I can so can you. For eg, there is such a thing as 2 parents being involved for us and you I think and people are allowed FT as a single person; supportive partners help; there are reasons why we get depressed (eg incidents in past, etc!!!!), stats such as 1:4 people have mental health probs in their life etc. And KC, the fact you had support, treatment etc shows you open to working to get help etc!! Seems bizarre thought that one of you saw a psychiatrist but no "official diagnosis" and one got treatment but no psychiatrist!! Me, I seen everyone but no treatment - hehe!!! Yes, going private keeps thigns sort of off record - so equality laws should let us be treated I guess. --- sorry, in a bizarre mood, trying to be positive which is weird after 2 weeks ago!!

Fedup - hope you ok and things stabilise etc.

Hi ladies. keziah and kc, I am optimistic about IVF, but still appalled at my notes. I made the comment to my GP that even though she thinks those notes have no bearing on me now, that there's no way of knowing if they'll be read out of context by an overzealous NHS'er in the future.

I would love to complain boba, but the thing about 'mental health issues' is you don't want people wisely nodding their heads and going 'Yup, she's paranoid, just what we thought....' I really feel as if I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. I wish I'd not got myself in this situation in the first place. So Dh and I are keeping our mouths shut. But this is something I will re-visit in a few years time for sure when I have 'proved myself'.

I think you make a good point about the varying quality of treatment keziah. I have been shocked by my treatment - yes, I have been referred for help which is more than others get, but two of the people I saw didn't LISTEN to me at all. It was so frustrating and irritating. A third was brilliant, but ironically she was a student in her final months of study. But she actually helped and did some good. Unlike the two 'qualified experts'.

In my twenties I saw three different psychs after my experience of violence (this was in South Africa), and the quality of care there with mental health is in a different world compared to here, even twenty years ago! Those people in SA literally helped me put my life back together - so I am not anti-psychologists in any way. I just don't think Britain is geared up to treat mental health issues very well - not in my experience anyway - and I'm not sure it can be treated well with time pressures and a cash-strapped NHS.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that had I seen either of the two British psychs I saw here after my exprience in my twenties, that I think they'd have done a lot more harm to me than good. A sobering realisation.

Keziah and Choccie: sorry about the experiences you've had with the health professionals here. They ought to be ashamed of the way they abuse their position: as it is in essence what they have done. The psychiatrists assessing you should have realised that you were just venting your frustrations on them as a release outlet; not helping them to categorise you into psycho box. The real psychos don't get found and end up committing serious crimes when by and large it is far too late to protect society from them. Whereas the people like yourselves with consciences and good intentions at heart are misunderstood on purpose in order to elevate the positions if the professionals in charge of your care. All in all it is a sorry state of affairs when caring and compassionate people in our society are being penalised if they dare to seek help. Sorry for the long self indulgent rant. Just really furious about this. Have 'no' personal experience of this - but the more I hear about these misdiagnosed cases and the inflated threat that psychiatrists claim they are to society, the angrier I get. There is a place for this awareness, but the criterion is incorrect. The purpose of the people you guys saw was to judge whether you were fit for treatment- but like you so correctly say: they can judge that in under 30 minutes: well rounded analysis then! What happened to references from employers, friends and family to get a bigger, well rounded picture? I AM seriously furious. Then the appeal process is so lengthy: by the time you have taken that route, you have lost your original motivation to pursue the treatment you originally set out to do or moved further down the queue. Apologies for the layout and grammar - am on my phone. Good luck ladies- hope it all works out for you, and this can be but a distant rubbish memory. Glad to hear that the dr is accepting that he's in the wrong keziah, FX that things move more quickie hereonin x

Can't help but feel that in order to relieve the pressure off a cash strapped nhs, they are justifying not offering treatment to people by misplacing the blame. Sorry- am very angry mainly because someone in RL has had a similar experience to this quite recently. She sought the help of a psychiatrist as she is new here- family and friends back home in Australia. She needed to offload her anxieties. Little did she know when they came to ask for fertility treatment it would all be thrown in her face. End result: she's going abroad for treatment: after having paid taxes here for over ten years (both her dh and her). They are higher tax payers too, not that that has had any influence on the final outcome.

I don't get why, if you have problems conceiving naturally, the medical profession is entitled to stop assisted conception on the grounds of risk of depression. Isn't risk of depression possible for most people? Just because you've never been treated for depression before becoming a parent, who's to say that that won't change?

Yet if you can conceive naturally over and over, have a track record of being unable to look after your own children, have them repeatedly taken into care, they won't stop you having more children. No that would not be PC! The authorities will just "monitor" you.

Isn't there some big double-standard going on?

Lychees: it's a " validated reason" to stop or not to commence treatment. The real reason is that the funding is just not there. So, obviously someone who IS a danger to children, but has never approached any psychiatrists or has kept that side of themselves to themselves, then they'll get the treatment: 'no' probs. So, it's a case of: share any/ all info with us at your peril, to your own detriment. Therefore a problem shared becomes a problem doubled. Sorry for sounding so frustrated. My personal experience of listening to friends and friends of theirs accounts seems to confirm this. I can and do understand the danger posed by those undiagnosed; but this is political correctness gone too far. The psychiatrists can surely judge someone having a bad day from someone intending to commit murder?!?

Hi ladies,

I'm really sorry for hijacking your thread but wanted to ask your expert advice on the CBFM.

I've been ttc #1 for a year (had a mmc at 6 wks in Jan) and have been using the CB OPK sticks but thought I'd move on to the big girls monitor this month (am also going to see my GP next week re: tests given it's been a year).

Anyway, I'm struggling to work out if I'm on Day 1 or not today - had terrible cramping this morning and have brown/light pink blood but not enough to use more than the smallest lilet all day. I pressed the 'm' button today but do you think I should cancel and start tomorrow as day 1 assuming AF arrives full-on?

My cycles usually waver around 28-31 days.

Thanks!

Fedup You've hit the nail on the head. The funding isn't there.

Lychees couldn't agree more. Why are the subfertile judged so much more than the fertile?

I do also think there is a lack of understanding of the HFEA guidelines by healthcare professionals. Looking through them treatment should NOT be refused because of a risk of depression.

Treatment can be refused if you are likely to pose a significant risk to a child. Now, in some respects I do buy this. I don't think it would be wise to provide assisted conception to a heroin addict who is a current user. If in this example, they are unable to look after themselves, homeless, undernourished etc and through the fact that the drug would cross the placenta, then they WOULD pose significant risk.

With mental health issues, however, I think they are putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5. They are equating a bout of depression or mild to moderate recurrent depression to saying this may make you incapable of looking after a child OR you may commit suicide.

In contrast, research actually shows that depression increases your ability to cope with bad situations in the future. Did you know that a woman who has never suffered from depression is far more likely to develop depression if she is widowed than a woman who has had depression?

There is also thought to be an evolutionary advantage from suffering from depression too. It forces us to make changes in our lifestyle and is thought to cause us to withdraw from a situation that is potentially harmful.

When I developed depression 4 years ago I was single and worked rediculous hours. I had no work life balance. I had no sicoial life (I was always working) and I was very lonely. I also knew that I really wanted children (even then) but could see no way of achieving this because my lack of life outside of work made it difficult to meet anybody. Fast forward a bit and I became quite ill and was signed off work for a month. During this time I focused on my friendships and life outside of work. I made radical changes and knew that to achieve what I really wanted in life I had to focus on me. One year after the first diagnosis and quite a lot of couselling that forced me to look at changes I cold make to my life I met my DH. 3 years on we've been married almost a year and HOPE to have a family. Depression was a positive thing form me. Yes, we might have to look at fertility treatment to achieve this aim, BUT if it hadn't been for my bout of depression I'd be lonely, miserable and with absolutely no prospect of having a family.

I've been diagnosed as depressed again. Again related to the risk that I may not be able to have children.

There is such a stigma around depression. I know I would never ever be a risk to a child, but in the cash strapped NHS, will they ever look at the fundamental reasons for my depression and the positives it brought in forcing me to change my life? I suspect not.

Choccie It seems this is what you have experienced too. Nobody has bothered to look at the reasons for you depression and admit that it is circumstantial and there is no evidence to sugges endogenous.

Sorry to go on so much. Like Fedup feeling really passionate about this subject. To be perfectly honest, I don't think the cash-strapped NHS has any real motivation to work to remove the stigma surrounding depression. In the case of infertility it simply saves them money.