Page 9 | What are you NOT giving up for climate change?

TheBeesKnee · 2023-08-02T21:43:42+00:00

As in, something you know would be beneficial and you actively refuse to do it. I refuse to take 4 minute showers. My showers last 15-20 minutes, 30 if I've had a really bad day. A nice hot shower relaxes me and I can't abide the thought of feeling stressed in there trying to wash before the clock runs out. To balance this out so that you don't all think I'm a terrible person, I was vegan for 10 years 🙈 Just wondering what others are clinging on to?

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 04/08/2023 15:53

Miajk · 04/08/2023 15:51

The world would be fine, it's not like the human race makes a great addition to our planet.

Also let's not pretend people are out there having kids for altruistic reasons.

If less people had children, immigration would solve a lot of issues in levelling out the population.

You may not like the fact that having children is horrible for the environment but it's true. I eat meat, and it's not eco friendly, but I do - what I won't do is start asking "what would happen if everyone stopped eating meat" or saying "well xyz eats meat"

Own your choices

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Exactly. This poor planet and all its beautiful species would be a lot better off if humans disappeared.

There is zero shortage of humans. Sensible changes to immigration laws will fill all consumer/labour needs for as far out as one can imagine.

Life was better when there were half as many people vying for housing, water, air, food, fossil fuel and other dwindling resources. We need to change the public policies that support careless reproduction.

Miajk · 04/08/2023 15:54

Goggleboit94 · 04/08/2023 15:51

Yes everyone contributes, youre spot on. Such a good daily mail style response, well done. Maybe re-read the comment you were replying to though? It was about how disturbing and confusing these threads are where people make silly brags about how much they love their car, and joke about a very real and terrifying future we face. Seemingly in complete denial that this is actually happening. And how bewildering it is to encounter that extreme cognitive dissonance on such a mass scale. Did you have something to say about that specific point? How do you feel personally - do you hide your fears deep inside because it’s too overwhelming to confront?

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This. Plus always the stupid comments saying "corporations are responsible anyway"

Yeah guess who's keeping these corporation's alive by lining their pockets because you want an SUV, Amazon parcel, or whatever else.

No one can be perfect but the proud lack of even trying and pointing the finger in another direction is really disappointing. Seeing how selfish people are I'm very happy I didn't bring kids into this shitshow

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 15:54

@Miajk well when you're old and have nobody who cares for you and you die because there's nobody young enough to care for you, and no medical treatments, care homes etc then you'll have to own your own choices too.
I wouldn't sacrifices my beautiful children and all our lovely memories to appease someone like you and your ideologies.

Miajk · 04/08/2023 15:56

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 15:54

@Miajk well when you're old and have nobody who cares for you and you die because there's nobody young enough to care for you, and no medical treatments, care homes etc then you'll have to own your own choices too.
I wouldn't sacrifices my beautiful children and all our lovely memories to appease someone like you and your ideologies.

I'm not asking you to. If you want to have kids, no one is stopping you. But stop doing mental gymnastics when confronted with true statements.

Miajk · 04/08/2023 15:57

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 15:54

@Miajk well when you're old and have nobody who cares for you and you die because there's nobody young enough to care for you, and no medical treatments, care homes etc then you'll have to own your own choices too.
I wouldn't sacrifices my beautiful children and all our lovely memories to appease someone like you and your ideologies.

Oh and you might have lovely memories but ask yourself the memories your kids will have living in a hellhole when we suffer from very real consequences of climate change. This selfish mindset of "me me me" doesn't even seem to make people think about their own children's future.

Daftasabroom · 04/08/2023 15:59

Miajk · 04/08/2023 15:52

I don't think you understand the math here.

2x + x/2 is still more than 2x.

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I do get the maths. But assigning my children's emissions to me and DP is nonsensical (as per the 2016 paper) all it means is that we are assigning tomorrow's emissions to today. It's accounting for the same thing multiple times.

Why should my children's emissions be assigned to me? This would my children emissions free.

What happens if x=0?

Goggleboit94 · 04/08/2023 15:59

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 15:54

@Miajk well when you're old and have nobody who cares for you and you die because there's nobody young enough to care for you, and no medical treatments, care homes etc then you'll have to own your own choices too.
I wouldn't sacrifices my beautiful children and all our lovely memories to appease someone like you and your ideologies.

It’s cute that you’re missing the point of this thread entirely. There won’t be old age for most of us typing on this thread. It’s game over. You can’t honestly believe that life expectancy will be the same when there are regular 40 degree summers in the uk, frequent flash floods, frequent and long lasting failures in our power infrastructure, limited drinking water, limited working antibiotics, food shortages and on and on and on. You need to be young and healthy to have even a fighting chance of surviving that. The fantasy in your head of being an elderly granny in a nice cottage with your large family tending to you is over. That world is dead - that’s exactly the point people are trying to get through on this thread.

User142876498 · 04/08/2023 16:03

Goggleboit94 · 04/08/2023 15:59

It’s cute that you’re missing the point of this thread entirely. There won’t be old age for most of us typing on this thread. It’s game over. You can’t honestly believe that life expectancy will be the same when there are regular 40 degree summers in the uk, frequent flash floods, frequent and long lasting failures in our power infrastructure, limited drinking water, limited working antibiotics, food shortages and on and on and on. You need to be young and healthy to have even a fighting chance of surviving that. The fantasy in your head of being an elderly granny in a nice cottage with your large family tending to you is over. That world is dead - that’s exactly the point people are trying to get through on this thread.

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I am fairly old age so don't speak for everyone and I have a nice big cottage

Goggleboit94 · 04/08/2023 16:04

Miajk · 04/08/2023 15:57

Oh and you might have lovely memories but ask yourself the memories your kids will have living in a hellhole when we suffer from very real consequences of climate change. This selfish mindset of "me me me" doesn't even seem to make people think about their own children's future.

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Yes exactly. Imagine your kids in ten or twenty years gasping for breath in 40 degree heat, screaming in pain in a wildfire, lost, terrified and hungry because the food system is no longer viable. They choose to inflict that future on the people they love most, just to create nice memories for themselves in 2023.

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 16:04

@Goggleboit94 sure Jan...

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 16:05

@Goggleboit94

That's what you want to happen isn't it.
Luckily for me I'm old enough to remember when they said acid rain and holes in the ozone layer were going to kill us in 10 years. Of course I was young then so fully fell for it like you are.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 04/08/2023 16:06

Goggleboit94 · 04/08/2023 15:59

It’s cute that you’re missing the point of this thread entirely. There won’t be old age for most of us typing on this thread. It’s game over. You can’t honestly believe that life expectancy will be the same when there are regular 40 degree summers in the uk, frequent flash floods, frequent and long lasting failures in our power infrastructure, limited drinking water, limited working antibiotics, food shortages and on and on and on. You need to be young and healthy to have even a fighting chance of surviving that. The fantasy in your head of being an elderly granny in a nice cottage with your large family tending to you is over. That world is dead - that’s exactly the point people are trying to get through on this thread.

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Spot on, Goggleboit. It's happening before our very eyes and people refuse to see it.

I'm glad I don't have kids because knowing what they would be suffering in a few short decades would be unbearable. But what is worse to me is the suffering we inflict on wildlife. It's not their fault we fucked up the earth, yet everything from elephants to tiny insects are paying the price.

The smoke from wildfires will probably get most of us one way or other other.

Goggleboit94 · 04/08/2023 16:06

User142876498 · 04/08/2023 16:03

I am fairly old age so don't speak for everyone and I have a nice big cottage

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Honestly that’s a good thing. You’ve lived through the good times and won’t have to watch your family suffer the horrors ahead. (And let’s be clear - the scientifically grounded horrors, not the horrors of “ideology” as you put it)

Goggleboit94 · 04/08/2023 16:09

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 16:05

@Goggleboit94

That's what you want to happen isn't it.
Luckily for me I'm old enough to remember when they said acid rain and holes in the ozone layer were going to kill us in 10 years. Of course I was young then so fully fell for it like you are.

Honestly it’s so interesting to encounter this level of denialism up close. So tell me - why is it that I want immense suffering to be inflicted on everyone? What’s your theory? And what’s the motive of the entire global scientific community?

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 16:19

@Goggleboit94
I'm going to take a wild guess (although you'll probably make up some bs)

You grew up in a wealthier household.
Both parents worked all the time and you were raised predominantly in childcare. Parents may or may not be divorced. You went to university and you have lots of lgbtq friends, go on marches and education was funded by your parents. You now work mainly from home or in some sort of office somewhere.

Daftasabroom · 04/08/2023 16:24

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 16:05

@Goggleboit94

That's what you want to happen isn't it.
Luckily for me I'm old enough to remember when they said acid rain and holes in the ozone layer were going to kill us in 10 years. Of course I was young then so fully fell for it like you are.

No one ever said acid rain or the hole in the ozone layer was going to kill everyone in ten years. Stop making things up.

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 16:30

@Daftasabroom yes they did. They said it would continue to open up and we would all die of heat and skin cancer etc and that acid rain would destroy all crops and nobody would be able to grow anything.

Daftasabroom · 04/08/2023 16:37

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 16:30

@Daftasabroom yes they did. They said it would continue to open up and we would all die of heat and skin cancer etc and that acid rain would destroy all crops and nobody would be able to grow anything.

Within 10 years? Don't be daft. Or, prove it.

The international effort that overcame the dangers of the hole in the ozone layer and acid rain demonstrates that these challenges can be overcome, not that they never existed.

It completely disproves everything you claim.

JaneyGee · 04/08/2023 16:40

Nothing. What we do in this country is pretty much irrelevant. China, the USA and India produce the vast majority of carbon emissions. In fact, I believe those three produce more than half of the greenhouse gases. Another massive problem is overpopulation. In 1900, there were just over a billion humans. By 1960 that had trebled to three billion. It's now eight billion and heading for ten. But even if the British all disappeared that wouldn't change things. African women have five kids, on average, and the population of Africa is set to double by 2050. As for, say deforestation, what Brazil does matters far more. Planting a few extra trees in Surrey isn't going to matter if great swathes of the Amazonian rainforest disappear.

Goggleboit94 · 04/08/2023 16:41

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 16:30

@Daftasabroom yes they did. They said it would continue to open up and we would all die of heat and skin cancer etc and that acid rain would destroy all crops and nobody would be able to grow anything.

The o zone layer is actually a super interesting comparison, so great that you bought it up. It was a really rare example of when scientific evidence was sufficient to mobilise a unified, international public policy response to tackle the evidence-based problem. Now that’s obviously not the case for climate change, as we know. Lots of reasons for that, eg that it’s a much more complex and interconnected problem, and that the response required is a lot less politically and economically popular in the short term. You can read more about the most recent news on it here if you’re interested - https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/topics/in-depth/climate-change-mitigation-reducing-emissions/current-state-of-the-ozone-layer

What is the current state of the ozone layer?

The ozone layer sits in the stratosphere between 15 km and 30 km above the earth and shields us and other living things from the sun’s harmful ultraviolet radiation. Ozone layer depletion could have serious effects on human health and the environment.

https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/topics/in-depth/climate-change-mitigation-reducing-emissions/current-state-of-the-ozone-layer

Hoppinggreen · 04/08/2023 16:43

Flying

Goggleboit94 · 04/08/2023 16:43

JaneyGee · 04/08/2023 16:40

Nothing. What we do in this country is pretty much irrelevant. China, the USA and India produce the vast majority of carbon emissions. In fact, I believe those three produce more than half of the greenhouse gases. Another massive problem is overpopulation. In 1900, there were just over a billion humans. By 1960 that had trebled to three billion. It's now eight billion and heading for ten. But even if the British all disappeared that wouldn't change things. African women have five kids, on average, and the population of Africa is set to double by 2050. As for, say deforestation, what Brazil does matters far more. Planting a few extra trees in Surrey isn't going to matter if great swathes of the Amazonian rainforest disappear.

Pick up the ten objects closest to you right now - how many were made in China? Why might their emissions be so high…?

Children in Africa - have a think about even just the stereotype of a child in Africa. Think about how a typical day in their life compares with a kid here. Who do you think emits more?

RememberWhy · 04/08/2023 16:46

VaccineSticker · 03/08/2023 20:53

Owning an item, namely a diesel SUV, instead of a less polluting car is a selfish choice. A cleaner car is widely available yet you actively and selfishly choose/support that use of a more polluting car and you justify it by saying oh well it’s greener than having kids so I can keep running my lovely polluting car.

I didn’t know it’s a race to the bottom with who can emit the most carbon.

Keep justifying these polluting ideologies so it makes you feel better. Keep giving your self a tap on the back.

As I said before you are comparing apples to oranges.

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and you still haven't answered my question of how many children you have. Is it because you know that that is way worse than driving a diesel SUV? But keep on avoiding the question and beating your chest with the SUV stick. That makes perfect sense...

Daftasabroom · 04/08/2023 16:47

JaneyGee · 04/08/2023 16:40

Nothing. What we do in this country is pretty much irrelevant. China, the USA and India produce the vast majority of carbon emissions. In fact, I believe those three produce more than half of the greenhouse gases. Another massive problem is overpopulation. In 1900, there were just over a billion humans. By 1960 that had trebled to three billion. It's now eight billion and heading for ten. But even if the British all disappeared that wouldn't change things. African women have five kids, on average, and the population of Africa is set to double by 2050. As for, say deforestation, what Brazil does matters far more. Planting a few extra trees in Surrey isn't going to matter if great swathes of the Amazonian rainforest disappear.

Maybe, but what you do personally makes as much or more difference than any other individual on the planet.

Goggleboit94 · 04/08/2023 16:54

fullbloom87 · 04/08/2023 16:19

@Goggleboit94
I'm going to take a wild guess (although you'll probably make up some bs)

You grew up in a wealthier household.
Both parents worked all the time and you were raised predominantly in childcare. Parents may or may not be divorced. You went to university and you have lots of lgbtq friends, go on marches and education was funded by your parents. You now work mainly from home or in some sort of office somewhere.

We’re actually having a pretty important discussion here at the moment. You might find a bit more of a chatty / gossipy / relationships thread on another board if that’s what you’re in the mood for.