Extremely rude and disrespectful child and Christmas!! HELP!

[teachingselfrestraint]

Dear other Parents, please don’t judge me for this one!!

I’m a Mum of two. One very sweet, polite and kind 4 year old boy with the kindest heart. And one very sour to the core 7 year old girl who is on a path of self destruction.

I don’t know how to approach Christmas when all year around we remind our young children of Santa and his expectations - be kind to others- and for one of my children, these expectations have been swung into space!

My 7 year old has the entitled teen attitude. My friends and family are scared to talk to her as she snaps back with pure brutality and has no emotions connected to the world. This is not an exaggeration (I do feel awful for her as she does has a emotional diagnosis from CAMHS and has had heavy support up until recent BUT it has been made very clear to me by professionals that she does know what she is doing at all times!)

So I’m sorry to be blunt with this but WHAT THE F**K AM I ACTUALLY MEANT TO DO ABOUT CHRISTMAS PRESENTS!!?

So far my plan is she will still receive presents from myself, family and friends, but nothing from Santa- just a letter explaining that kindness did not come from her and so he’s decided to give her present to someone less fortunate.
Family think this is ridiculous and that I should just give her nothing. But I don’t want her upset on Christmas! As much as I resent the behaviours, the phone calls from school and after school club and the endless apologies I hand out on her behalf. I would feel like the worst Mum ever to take everything from such a small girl on Christmas!!

Please help me balance this parenting struggle! What can I do?

Woah this has gone the wrong way!

My bond with her is amazing, I’m the one not wanting to punish her! She has emotion dysregulation and I’ve done so much work to support her that will be ongoing for a long time. I don’t ever punish her for not managing her emotions, I do however remind her that the way she speaks to people is not kind. An example that she said to my friends 4 year old “your name is the most stupidest ugly boy who can’t even talk like a big boy” this was because the child wouldn’t play with her as she’s very controlling with play.

Guys please don’t turn on me for asking how to help Christmas be nice for her when everyone is against her having anything!!

We don’t expectant obedient lovely perfect behaviour either for Christmas. The one family rule that Santa also reinforces this time of year is To be kind to others.
I think that’s pretty fair to raise any child with kindness as a priority in behaviour!

Can she help being the way she is? do not punish her at Christmas, that would be horrible to do to a child. She's a child, could you write a note to say Father Christmas saw you were nice to xyz and thought you deserved this gift, it's good to be nice to one another & Father Christmas was proud you behaved that day. Don't focus on the negative, she'll be in therapy in 20 years saying Father Christmas sent a note because I was bad!

Also Ignore everyone else she is your child not theirs they don't get to decide how you punish her & this is cruel

@Bunbunbunny

Thank you so much for a positive and good idea.
Yes she can help how she behaves, CAMHS have said to me she is only cruel when she’s not getting her own way which will take time to reconfigure.
I’ve done managing emotion groups with her and I fully support and help her with that.
It’s the not necessary unkind words that come out of her mouth ALOT that I’m trying to help her “fix”. Everything takes time and I’m all for supporting her until the end of my life!
I just want people to get off my back for not punishing her and I also want her to have some form of life lesson that this behaviour isn’t okay.
Christmas was always going to be a taboo as I want her to be so happy but I know I have to a some point stick to my guns. Most times she’s said something beyond cruel to someone (child or adult) I have said “Come one sweetly, we know we have to be kind to others if we want others to be kind back”. And “Remember Santa can hear all the kind things you say”.

I positively target her behaviours so I’m not kicking a 7 year old down which Is what I’m guessing the majority of these reply’s believe..

As a parent of a challenging autistic child I would not do that.
Praise good behaviour. Give her something to aim for. It will make a better Christmas than punishing previous behaviour. Look into help such as triple p courses for ideas and strategies on how to manage the behaviour and boost her self esteem.

Oh good god please don't withhold Christmas presents she's 7 !! What do you hope that will achieve? She will realise she's been naughty and suddenly be good ? .
If she's like this there must me a reason I hope you get support from the professionals and I have no advice but do not even think about using Christmas as punishment.

Disgusting “parenting”.
Give your poor, vulnerable, mixed-up, distressed child a fucking present from Santa!
Hope this isn’t real!

And are you actually being firm with her when she misbehaves ? Nothing more annoying than seeing a child having a tantrum and the parent quietly going ok sweetie that's not nice is it . To be soft most of the time than do something like this which is cruel is sending mixed messages to her .

I just want people to get off my back for not punishing her and I also want her to have some form of life lesson that this behaviour isn’t okay.

Ok so two issues

1. other people can fuck off. Everyone always has an opinion on how you should “discipline” your SEN child. None of them actually live with your child and understand how she functions. People get a lovely fuzzy sickening glow out of the thought of punishing children. Happily ignore them. Never punish your child for other people’s benefit. Always ask yourself “what does she need right now. Sometimes that will be a hug from her mum when everyone else Is looking at her in horror and expecting you to cut her tongue out.

2. you can absolutely teach that lesson. But you do it as an ongoing thing on a daily basis by consistently repeating and modelling the message. Not by a big angry gesture that will serve only to anger her, which will upset everyone else and make you stressed, angry, guilty etc. The lesson isn’t a one time thing. It’s ongoing.

I think it depends on what Santa brings in your house. In ours santa brings the stockings, I completely get the idea of no stocking as she hasn't been kind. It is hard but she wont miss out in a huge amount and will still have presents from everyone. It also confirms the importance of kindness for your youngest, rather than seeing your dd get away with all behaviour. However if santa brings all presents, then I wouldn't withhold.
The above is based on your dd choosing to behave badly, if she is unable to control her behaviour (be that autism, adhd, or anything else!) then santa should still visit.

This is a child who doesn’t feel or think good things about herself. Withholding presents for bad behaviour only reinforces the message that she is a “bad child”. She isn’t, she does bad things, but she also does good things (I guarantee she does- even if they are few and far between) she is a child who is really struggling. She doesn’t need anything else to tell her she is bad. She needs loads of positive reinforcement. I would completely ignore all the bad behaviour for now. Treat it like training a dog. (I’m not saying she is a dog) you ignore all the behaviours you don’t want and reward all the behaviours you do want. It will take time because her default right now is to be negative. She has to retrain her gut instinct to be polite rather than rude. But if you are consistent and all your friends and family are consistent she will get there. There is no quick fix here. It will be ongoing and hard and she will regress at times (times of stress= trigger) so be prepared for that. Give her loads of positive messages about herself. Make sure you are noticing all the tiny behaviours she is doing and comment on them for her. Don’t relate them to naughty behaviours ie; don’t say “your manners are so lovely DD, not like you were being rude on Tuesday, remember?” You just say the positive remark.

So other than telling her it's not nice, what consequence does she get for saying nasty things to people?

Um - I don’t think it is a good idea to have Christmas presents tied to behaviour - maybe just something small - socks or a kids book on kindness? That would Send a more positive, hopeful message?

Maybe do rewards during year for behaviour things.

I wouldn’t do rewards for good behaviour at all. Children learn very quickly that they can decide they don’t want the reward and then where are you? Do you offer a better reward? It’s very open to manipulation. What your DD wants, without knowing she wants it, is your attention and approval. That’s her reward. But you don’t let her know that otherwise she will learn to manipulate that too. You get her hooked on your positive attention and approval and you’ll find life far easier.

Yeah sure if you'd like your child's school to flag as an emotionally abusive parent come January when she informs them that a fictional character wrote to her to she wasn't good enough for presents. Her brother was though and all her peers.

Get a grip.

And the way you describe your son

Talk about Golden Child and Scapegoat

As a parent with a challenging sn child, I think you have to find the good stuff. I absolutely expect high standards from my nt child, kindness and an extra effort at good behaviour. But my child with asd is already flat out being well behaved in school, managing his mood through transitions and identifying triggers so he can ask for downtime instead of exploding. To an outsider it looks like my bar is low, but he’s working hard at these things. And he absolutely deserves my respect and pride in him.

Our compromise with the unfortunately pervasive trope that Santa exchanges gift for kindness is that every act of kindness helps to generate the magic that allows Santa to fly around the world and bring gifts to everyone

I understand how terrifying it is to be raising a child with inadequate support and no clear blue print. It’s hard to convey to the older generation that threatening a Christmas present sanction won’t fix ds’ asd because to their mind we’re ruining this generation by not giving them “a clip on the ear”. I would recommend trying to access some parenting classes or support if you can. I know other posters have said this already but I don’t mean it harshly or judgementally. It’s absolutely vital to get every bit of support that you can for yourself.

At 7 this is going to be a transformative life lesson. What it will do though is make her upset, angry, resentful and insecure. Those emotions are not suddenly going to make her think “good point, Santa, I’ll be kinder”. They’ll make her react in the way most children (and adults) would if they felt them.

Hopefully some of these resources will be useful

www.zonesofregulation.com/index.html

www.amazon.co.uk/You-Are-Social-Detective-Explaining/dp/0884272001?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

www.amazon.co.uk/Superflex-Superhero-Social-Thinking-Curriculum/dp/0979292247/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_1/262-4224220-8961918?psc=1&pf_rd_p=e44592b5-e56d-44c2-a4f9-dbdc09b29395&_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_wg=uwNNa&pf_rd_r=M7874YDHPAF3RP999TRT&pd_rd_i=0979292247&pd_rd_w=Idz5c&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&refRID=M7874YDHPAF3RP999TRT&pd_rd_r=7be16557-f52e-4f81-84dd-9dfc719c9568

www.facebook.com/groups/617901991629596/

www.facebook.com/groups/407492119460898/

Agree with PP, ignore people telling you not to get her presents. Reading between the lines, do they blame your parenting for her behaviour? They think you should be stricter and she would then "be good" (wondering if you're mentioning her brother being different is because you've been made to feel as if you are the reason she is struggling so you want to defend yourself by pointing out it's not all your children who behave the way she does. I mean this kindly, I'm not having a go at you!)

You're getting the help you need, responding to get as best you can and building a good bond.

Have a nice Christmas with her, celebrate her best qualities (if you do link santa to kindness, I like the idea of a note that says he's noticed her doing something positive) and don't turn it into a competition/comparison between her and DS. It sounds like this is a long road and not going to be solved by any quick fix

Tell your family to either support you or back off and look after yourself as well.

How about buying the normal amount of presents she usually has, but only give her half on Christmas Day? Then say to her Santa has given her other presents to you to give to her when she has been kind to others and you will give her one present a day for each kind day?

And if anyone is likely to comment about her behaviour or getting presents at Christmas- don’t see them. You don’t need that- she doesn’t need that.

Read The Empty Stocking by Richard Curtis together at bedtime. It is a nice positive story for this time of year. Give her your unconditional love and support. You aren't going to be able to punish the attitude out of her. Be kind to your child she is struggling with something.

So your dd has a diagnosis and you feel it’s ok to not give her a santa present because of her emotional issues? 😢

Please don’t do this, treat her the same as your other child, just don’t expect anything from her, I’m sure she is grateful but struggles to show it.

Both my dad’s have ASD, my eldest is rarely grateful for anything (or so it may seem), my youngest is almost no verbal but loves Christmas. I don’t put them in the position anymore where they open gifts In front of other family members because they struggle to know how to react to gifts. We open all gifts at home on our own (just the 3 of us), occasionally we will open gifts at my mums and I will tell them to say thank you even if it’s something they already have or don’t like, luckily my mum asks now before buying or she gives them cash.

I feel sorry for your dd, she obviously has issues and problems expressing her feelings and you want to punish her and tell her that her behaviour isn’t expectable? ☹️ She’s 7 years old.

I feel like you’ve made a mistake using Santa as a punishment all year for a child with emotional problems, it’s setting her up to fail. It’s not ‘santas’ job to punish your child either it’s yours so I wouldn’t not send presents from him. At some point shel no he’s not real and that you just lied to her to make her feel even the magical Santa could only see the naughty child in her, I can’t see how that could help, also won’t help resentment to her sibling if he brings her brother presents and not her. I’d just explain to your family that your not going to use an imaginary person to lie to your daughter as a punishment, and ignore what they think of that. If she gets less presents it should be from you, her parents, because you sent less presents to Santa as she’s been so unkind, and your parenting is consistent and united. It must be so hard working out what to do though, I hope you manage to find the best solution for your family.