Right I am going to have my say/rant on this subject then I shall shut up

[BlackMagicMiaou]

I hate Christmas. Really, really hate it.

It's no longer about religion, or family, or togetherness. It's about money. How much we spend, how much is spent on us.

It used to be a few presents, one from your mum and dad and a couple others from close family. A stocking from Santa with a satsuma, some nuts and chocolate coins in the bottom, and a new packet of pens.

Nowadays, most kids get upwards of twenty presents, plus a "visit" from Santa at school (another present), then at Santa's grotto (another one). Parents spend more and more on their kids, so it's not just one thing, but four, five, six presents they get. Then in addition to all the stuff from every relative, there's all the present giving to friends too.

It's bad enough, and stressful enough, if you have a decent income and have spare money to spend on all this stuff. If you haven't it just becomes an unending nightmare. You get pressure from society, friends, family, to spend money you haven't got buying stuff you can't afford and giving it to people who don't want it in the first place. WHY?????? What is the point??????

Add to that, all the crap you get from family when you don't get on - we are constantly sold this cosy image of loving families round the fire pulling crackers - and for so many people it simply isn't like that. Yet we are under so much pressure to conform to society's image and made to feel failures if we don't live up to this ideal.

Already I am feeling the pressure - my mum telling me that I disappointed everyone by not buying presents for my nieces and nephews last year - never mind that they are on £100k plus per year and dh had just lost his job - and that I had better make sure I get them something this year (with what? We have £140 per month to feed and clothe us and buy petrol and the car tax is due) - but what is the point really? I can't afford to buy them ANYTHING they could possibly want. Why can't I just wish everyone a happy Christmas and ask them to donate anything they would have spent on presents to charity?

I would seriously like to stick my head under the covers, my fingers in my ears and hum loudly until January.

OK incoherent rant over.

dd1 had a Barbie Advent last year

xx

Zog - Hawkins Bazaar have the make your own paper chains.

You can always rely on M&S to have a proper one (advent calendar) - unless you object to the chocolate

Early Learning also do paper chains so do www.yellowmoon.com
This year I think DD and me might make some popcorn and thread it for the tree as well. Or perhaps just making ourselves some fun edible jewellery.

Oxfam sell proper advent calendars, most large charity shop chains do the traditional no chocolate ones, as do Poundstretcher and if you want the Christian meaning included church shops etc.

I have a very materialistic friend, the sort who leaves the prices on her gifts so that you all know how much she spends and can match the value. This I gave her some of these last year: and it worked

My friends mum MIL (why is it always the MIL) has kept a diary of what she has given and been given since the year my friend married her DS - over 15 years now!

One of the best/worst gifts my friend got was a Star shaped tissue box from Boots or Superdrug, useful and the DC's found it was a great replacement for the fairy they knocked off the tree and broke.

We spend a bit on our own kids but when it comes to other people i spend £5 on kids and i sprnd £5-£10 on my mum and dad, we save all year for christmas so i like to spoil my dd's a little.

I agree to spoiling your own DC's I do that too. Other adults get between £10 and £15 spent on them. DH and I are lucky if we manage to get each other anything.

I'm in Team Rhubarb, I think Christmas is what you make of it. Commercialism is indeed rampant but we don't have to be drawn into it and if we've stated our POV re gifts etc to those involved then there's no need to feel guilty.

My own extended family of nieces/nephews and their offspring is growing ever larger so gifts are limited to £5 and for children only. I don't get/want/expect gifts back and am happy with a thank you note.

Re chocolate advent calendars, I also hate them, esp the Disney-type ones! The last door, for me, always has to have a star or a Nativity scene behind it. But this year I won't be back in the UK until the second week of December so I'm hoping to get cut-price calendars.

I totally agree with you Miaou. I think we need a national debate on where Christmas has gone wrong and what we ought to do about it,.

It's clearly right we should have a festival in midwinter to keep spirits up, or should celebrate the birth of a good man who had some very decent ideas about how we should treat each other (or the son of God - if that's what you believe) but it has become soulless, greedy and empty.

Although....

it's as much my right to go OT and celebrate madly as it is yours to not do so, isn't it?

besides I do love shopping for presents for othre people, far more than I like to receive

Your mum's attitude is outrageous Miaou - I'm sure I remember your posts last Christmas about how tough things were for you, surely her memory isn't that short! I worked for an advice agency for years and used to get so depressed in January trying to help people who had got themselves in a real financial mess over Christmas trying to give their kids everything they wanted so they wouldn't feel inferior to their friends. Where is the Christmas spirit in people feeling sick everytime someone knocks on the door in case it's a debt collector. My mum hated Christmas - as an adult I understand why!

Fantastic thread Miaou.
I've never bought my 2 year old anything for Christmas or birthdays.
Dd is having a novelty chocolate machine for her 6th (she will bloody love it) and as I said before,I ban people from bringing presents and cards to our parties (if they insist,I say we will collect contributions to school fund for good of all).

I have reluctantly done party bags for dd's birthday on Saturday,but they comprise flower bulbs,a small Fairtrade choccie bar and a joke shop wotsit.

It bloody sickens me,especially seeing the grinding poverty around us in Eastern Turkey.

Thought it might appeal, Moondog

I think all the consumer-obsessed Christmas moneyspenders should be forced to spend a week in the company of those who Have Not (ie Eastern Turkey and the like) just to put their priorities into perspective.

I told my mum tonight about our plans for Christmas. It followed on from our discussion entitled "How it is Possible to Feed a Family of Five on £30 Per Week" and "We will be attending the bonfire if we can afford the petrol which is by no means certain". I think she is starting to "get it" but I'm sure she will come up with some "scheme" by which we can provide presents, thereby missing the point entirely . As things stand though, she took it remarkably well. She has an astounding lack of tact and a total inability to see things from any POV but her own, but she's not a bad old stick really . Just the pressure gets to me sometimes.

I hoped to get a cut price calendar last year, suedonim, but by 3rd of Dec the guy in Asda looked at me as if I was mad when I tried to buy one.

me: "Where are your advent calendars?"
asda guy: "It's the 3rd of Decembeer, love."
me: "Yes, I know it is. Where are your advent calendars?"

Repeat ad nauseum.

I ended up with a white chocolate malteser one. Yuk. If your children demand a chocolate calendar and you don't want them to have one then I thouroughly recommend a white chocolate malteser one as punishment .

That sounds like a nice CHristmas Wordsworth. I'd like that but dh wants the whole works.

I get really stressed out with the cooking side of it. I hate cooking anyway.

I would love to go away from Christmas, preferably somewhere very warm and sunny where they serve no turkey or Christmas pudding.

I do like the decorated houses, trees, windows, the cribs and cards, the lights in the streets and evening services at church

Oh and this thread has inspired me to tell my mum that one of the presents they have bought for dd for Christmas should be kept until her birthday in May as she will only be 8months at Christmas and does not need piles of presents. Not that she will for her bday tbh but at least I'm trying to spread them about the year.

Message withdrawn

Haven't caught up with this thread this eve, but having read it yesterday, gave me the impetus to finally decide on homemade gifts + charity gifts for my family this year from here

(still working on ils...)

thx all!

xmas can be a pain, trying to please everyone but yourself! not this year, we are staying at home so dd can play with her prezzies and we are not having turkey (hate it hate it) chicken or duck for us. As a rule in my family we only buy for the kids however my lovely sisters didn't buy my dd anything last year (her 1st xmas) i decided I wasn't forking out for their kids (7 altogether) however I think I will buy a big box of biscuits for each family so at least I can say I got them something, agree its one big expense but as I've taken on a xmas temp job any money i earn is for dd, dh and me and I certainly won't feel bad for it, I will tho make a donation to a charity this xmas even if its a small amount

Milkshake, you can always tell your inlaws you've decided you won't be able to cope with hosting Boxing Day after all and could you all go to theirs instead? You have the wildcard factor of crazy pg woman / crazy lady with newborn baby - they should be at your mercy

We only do thank you cards if the giver didn't actually see the gift being opened. I think it's a waste of paper to reiterate something you've already said at the time.

I like having a list of suggestions too - if I'm buying something I'd rather get something that the person will actually want & use.

I don't tend to spend much on presents - rarely spend more than £20 on one item & nobody is bothered by this in the slightest. If I want to spend more I do, but no-one complains.