Right I am going to have my say/rant on this subject then I shall shut up

[BlackMagicMiaou]

I hate Christmas. Really, really hate it.

It's no longer about religion, or family, or togetherness. It's about money. How much we spend, how much is spent on us.

It used to be a few presents, one from your mum and dad and a couple others from close family. A stocking from Santa with a satsuma, some nuts and chocolate coins in the bottom, and a new packet of pens.

Nowadays, most kids get upwards of twenty presents, plus a "visit" from Santa at school (another present), then at Santa's grotto (another one). Parents spend more and more on their kids, so it's not just one thing, but four, five, six presents they get. Then in addition to all the stuff from every relative, there's all the present giving to friends too.

It's bad enough, and stressful enough, if you have a decent income and have spare money to spend on all this stuff. If you haven't it just becomes an unending nightmare. You get pressure from society, friends, family, to spend money you haven't got buying stuff you can't afford and giving it to people who don't want it in the first place. WHY?????? What is the point??????

Add to that, all the crap you get from family when you don't get on - we are constantly sold this cosy image of loving families round the fire pulling crackers - and for so many people it simply isn't like that. Yet we are under so much pressure to conform to society's image and made to feel failures if we don't live up to this ideal.

Already I am feeling the pressure - my mum telling me that I disappointed everyone by not buying presents for my nieces and nephews last year - never mind that they are on £100k plus per year and dh had just lost his job - and that I had better make sure I get them something this year (with what? We have £140 per month to feed and clothe us and buy petrol and the car tax is due) - but what is the point really? I can't afford to buy them ANYTHING they could possibly want. Why can't I just wish everyone a happy Christmas and ask them to donate anything they would have spent on presents to charity?

I would seriously like to stick my head under the covers, my fingers in my ears and hum loudly until January.

OK incoherent rant over.

Miaou, I am horrified by your Mum pressurising you to buy presents like that! That is so very against what ought to be the sprit of chistmas, and it must be very very upsetting for you.

I don't know what to suggest, but I do at least think that you are in the right!

very true I'm sure my MIL would love one

I really sympathise with your rant. I was nodding while I read it. When you haven't got a lot of money (which we didn't for years and years), it is beyond belief when you have to spend a fortune on presents that you know people neither need nor want.

I used to get so resentful of spending so much on DH's ever expanding family while we were living on dried pasta all year, crying about money every month.

I think you need to have a radical rethink and confront people with the reality. It is hard, but not as hard as going into debt (oh yes we did that every year) to buy things.

Then you can make Christmas once again a happy time for you, which it isn't at the moment.

Dd1 said to me this year "I just want a princess sticker book for Christmas". Depsite trying to persuade her to ask for a bigger present, she insists "No - I don't want anything else, just a princess sticker book."

They cost 1.99 from Morrisons!!

Yep - and it's always good to keep the MIL's happy! The good thing is you know that they would use it every day and always be reminded of the grandkids!

i enjoy doing things at christmas, but we have a sensible limt on pressies throughout the family - about £10 - £20. so far we haven't bought any presents for dd, who has just runed 3, but we are considering getting ourselves a piano/keyboard, and would consider this as her present, so wouldn't get anything else.

in my poorer days i often got coats/shoes for presents as i couldn't afford them.

we have 'suggestion' lists, just ideas of things we like, not expect, e.g.dh would like some peaty Scottish malts, then people can make informed decisions, but there's no pressure to 'complete the list'. hate the idea of ding bats niece's list - far too clinical, where's the 'i saw this and thought of you'?

It's only about commercialism if you let it get that way. You can celebrate Christmas without getting involved in all of that.

Buy your relations something from Oxfam, like a goat to feed a family. They'll moan like hell but you can make them feel really guilty about moaning because some family in Africa now has the means to feed themselves!

I did this last year as I have 11 nieces and nephews and I'm sure it wasn't appreciated but I don't care, to me charity is what Christmas is about and if they don't like it they can lump it!

I like the magical aspect of Christmas, the feel in the air! Getting the kids to help make decorations, getting the food in, buying the little things that I know they will like! In our house we get lots of little presents instead of one big expensive one as they are more fun and more affordable. Last year I got dd a disposable camera and a scrapbook as one of her presents, the idea being to take pictures on Christmas day and then get them developed and paste them into the scrapbook with descriptions - she loved it!

I like seeing people happy and I like giving, so for me Christmas is lovely!

think its too commercial now-kids demanding all they see on tv. Too muchface fuss. supposed to be religious not time to binge

We only buy for daughter and family and close friends children. Gifts are what I can afford and feel appropraite and useful. So alright a pair of PJ's may not be the childs best pressie but it helps parents when it comes to having to buy clothes - which are needed, would like to think firends do the same.

The only adults we buy for are DH's parents. My mum's sister, who has been lovely since loosing mum. And DH's grandad and aunt. MIL only wants vouchers - although if she doesnt start behaving am tempted to get her some Lavendar toiletries (no offence to anyone who may get these - but we have always joked they are for old ladies). And DH grandad has everything at his age so often get him a little parcel of edible goodies to keep him going. He especilly loved tipple marmaldes etc. Also get DD to make him something, which he always proudly displays, he is a lovely GGD to her.

And as for thank you note, DD has always sent them. It's rude not to. Even when she was tiny baby I painted her hand and stamped it on Christmas 'Thank You' notelets and sent one to everyone who got her something.

Ah Vanilla, thankyou letters, another flashpoint in the Miaou household (honestly, I'm not a miserable old sod, just on this thread!)

We always send thankyou notes. I even sent thankyou letters to the nursing and ambulance staff who looked after me last week. I wrote thankyou notes when the kids were too young to write their own, then they drew pictures; now the dds write their own. To me it is obligatory. If they want to receive the gifts then it's important that they appreciate the time and effort people have gone to in order to provide them.

Yet I have NEVER received one from any family member (including those ones that my mother insists I should buy for this year!). Right royally pisses me off.

I love Christmas, decorating the tree and house, cooking nice things to eat BUT I totally agree about the commercialisation. I never spend a lot on my kids but I realised recently that the older two haven't really played with the few toys they got last year - so this year they will get a board game each (ones I enjoy playing!!), books and a few little things in a stocking. I am going to ask family to get them clothes or books and dvds that they will enjoy throughout the year.

Btw, I can get away with this because mine rarely watch tv with ads - hooray for cbeebies!

This year you should tell you mum that you are going to count the number of Thank you letters you get and next year only send to those people who wrote to you and said thanks!

I have just ordered all my thank you notes for Christmas (which DD wil draw on on behalf of her and new new baby sibling) and some notes from all of us for any things we get when new baby arrives.

Just posted on a different thread I am asking for a water butt and compost bin - perhaps we will buy one of each for each other instead!!

DD has got loads from me, but it;s my perogative to spoil her and next year it will be halved as her new sibling will be bought more for was well.

I only buy stuff I think people will want.

My side of the family (mum, dad, sister and brother) decided eons ago not to bother as one year we both gave each other M&S vouchers!!!! I get a photo of dd1 and dd2 and put it in a nice frame for my mum and dad.

I get inlaws stuff - lots for MIL as she looks after my girls when I work and deserves it.

dd1 and dd2 get quite a lot of stuff from relatives but we have a clear out of old toys beforehand and give them away so they are not overrun (kind of).

Nobody forces you to buy stuff, just say to people earlier on in the year that you are reining in your present buying and just send them a card.

What annoys me most is how rude and aggressive people get whilst Christmas shopping, really really REALLY gets on my nerves. I may snap one day and demand some manners are shown goddammit.

Completely agree with Rhubarb on this thread. I love Christmas and want to recreate my happy memories of it from childhood for my own children as far as possible. BUT these memories have nothing to do with expensive gifts, for me, it's all about the traditions e.g. making the Christmas cake and pudding, having a stir and making a wish, making paper chains (how hard are they to find nowadays??), bringing out all the ancient battered familiar decorations that make the kids squeal with excitement as they unwrap them etc etc.

For me, everything I hate about the poisoning of Christmas is symbolised by the chocolate Advent calendar, especially if it's e.g. a Barbie one

God I sound about 90

I'm waiting until January when all the poor me brigade start complaining that they can't pay their bills because they wanted to give their children/dog/rat/whatever the best Christmas ever{evil snigger emoticon}

"Nobody forces you to buy stuff, just say to people earlier on in the year that you are reining in your present buying and just send them a card."

You're right oliveoil. No-one has a gun to my head. But I am made to feel like a selfish cow for not buying presents and I think that's unfair.

Dh and I are planning to send out a Christmas letter with family news (much hated here on MN but much loved in our family!), photos, and a request to give money to charity that they would otherwise spend on us. We will wish everyone a merry christmas then retire with our tin hats on

But miaou, aren't you maybe a bit late? By the time you have sent your letter there is a distinct possibility that a lot of people will have bought you presents already.

Most people will know as I will phone them first Bozza.

But Bozza, she still shouldn't feel bad about it even if they already bought her a pressie!

When I buy someone a gift, it's not meant as emotional blackmail!

I don't mind if they don't give me one in return.

The whole gift-for-ransom thingie escapes me.

That wasn't what I was saying expat. If miaou wants people to donate to charity rather than buy her a present, that is all very valid, but a bit of a hassle if that person has to unwrap the present and go and get a refund before making the donation! But miaou obviously has it sorted.

think this sums up my feeling perfectly now.

Mind you it didnt when I was forced to analyse it as a teenager

Advent

by Patrick Kavanagh

We have tested and tasted too much, lover--
Through a chink too wide there comes in no wonder.
But here in the Advent-darkened room
Where the dry black bread and the sugarless tea
Of penance will charm back the luxury
Of a child's soul, we'll return to Doom
the knowledge we stole but could not use.

And the newness that was in every stale thing
When we looked at it as children: the spirit-shocking
Wonder in a black slanting Ulster hill
Or the prophetic astonishment in the tedious talking
Of an old fool will awake for us and bring
You and me to they yard gate to watch the whins
And the bog-holes, cart-tracks, old stables where Time begins.

O after Christmas we'll have no need to go searching
For the difference that sets an old phrase burning--
We'll hear it in the whispered argument of a churning
Or in the streets where the village boys are lurching.
And we'll hear it among decent men too
Who barrow dung in gardens under trees,
Wherever life pours ordinary plenty.
Won't we be rich, my love and I, and please
God we shall not ask for reason's payment,
The why of heart-breaking strangeness in dreeping hedges
Nor analyse God's breath in common statement.
We have thrown into the dust-bin the clay-minted wages
Of pleasure, knowledge and the conscious hour--
And Christ comes with a January flower.

Am so with you Zog!!! Give me an old fashioned advent calendar with 24 - not 25 (who's idea was that) windows. And under the last window a nice big star! Oh for the Christmas of my childhood - and no I am not 90, I am in my 30's.

I am actually shuddering at the prospect of Christmas.