Right I am going to have my say/rant on this subject then I shall shut up

[BlackMagicMiaou]

I hate Christmas. Really, really hate it.

It's no longer about religion, or family, or togetherness. It's about money. How much we spend, how much is spent on us.

It used to be a few presents, one from your mum and dad and a couple others from close family. A stocking from Santa with a satsuma, some nuts and chocolate coins in the bottom, and a new packet of pens.

Nowadays, most kids get upwards of twenty presents, plus a "visit" from Santa at school (another present), then at Santa's grotto (another one). Parents spend more and more on their kids, so it's not just one thing, but four, five, six presents they get. Then in addition to all the stuff from every relative, there's all the present giving to friends too.

It's bad enough, and stressful enough, if you have a decent income and have spare money to spend on all this stuff. If you haven't it just becomes an unending nightmare. You get pressure from society, friends, family, to spend money you haven't got buying stuff you can't afford and giving it to people who don't want it in the first place. WHY?????? What is the point??????

Add to that, all the crap you get from family when you don't get on - we are constantly sold this cosy image of loving families round the fire pulling crackers - and for so many people it simply isn't like that. Yet we are under so much pressure to conform to society's image and made to feel failures if we don't live up to this ideal.

Already I am feeling the pressure - my mum telling me that I disappointed everyone by not buying presents for my nieces and nephews last year - never mind that they are on £100k plus per year and dh had just lost his job - and that I had better make sure I get them something this year (with what? We have £140 per month to feed and clothe us and buy petrol and the car tax is due) - but what is the point really? I can't afford to buy them ANYTHING they could possibly want. Why can't I just wish everyone a happy Christmas and ask them to donate anything they would have spent on presents to charity?

I would seriously like to stick my head under the covers, my fingers in my ears and hum loudly until January.

OK incoherent rant over.

I think the key is to keep it how youm like it and not feel obliged, which can be hard.

We really like Christmas so we do blow it a bit I guess, but we don't go out much, or spend on other things throughout the year so it's our personal choice. I often feel criticised by people for making that decision, but surely it's mine to take? And of xourse, if someone gets me something tiny I really don't mind- i'm very much NOT a possessions person anyhow.

DH and I have agreed to each buy the other a bottle of our favourite drink)Gordons for me, JD for DH) and the kids have nice presents but with a bit of thought..... DS1 has a posrtable DVD unit, which as he has AS, loves films and likes his own space is ideal. DS3 has an interactive POstmasn Pat and a karaoke set- again ideal as his language is far behind what it should be.

On Christmas Eve we all gather at Mum's and dad's and go out to the local pub chain for a meal, they close off a conservatory for us. Then we all go back, to Mums for a bit. As we live away at the mo, we stay for the two nights. Christmas really is a muddle of gifts, people popping in and out and food. Very informal indeed.

We've never gone overboard at Christmas. The rule has always been we only buy for children, our parents and grandparents. Our limit was always about £10 max for adults and nephews and £20-30 for our children, depending on what they particularly wanted. When I hear of people getting into debt so that they can buy a 7 year old (for example) a TV and a computer for Christmas I just don't get it. What's the point? We've been lucky and our children have always been really appreciative of what they've got, and don't demand expensive stuff because they know they won't get it. Much less stress all round.

I'm 35, SP. When we were growing up my parents were absolutely broke (mmm, sounds familiar) so presents were very basic. My dad made adverts and I found out many years later that most of our presents were "props" that he kept after shoots! And our stockings were exactly as I described them.

And yet - ironically - now that they are better off they put the pressure on us to spend more .

But it's really not just about the money, it's the expectation and the waste that gets me. The kids need new shoes. But instead of shoes they'll get another stack of craft kits from Woolworths that I'll stack up with the pile they got last year. It just all seems so pointless.

If Christmas is about loving and giving, then why not give people what they need?

It must be very hard Miaou when your relatives feel differently to you, and are in very different circumstances. We try and keep the materialism side of Christmas down, and fortunately have a quite small family. We mainly try and buy just for children, not adults; and my side of the family are getting pretty good at buying Oxfam-Unwrapped presents rather than spending good money on unwanted junk.

The boys are starting to feel the peer pressure from friends who have 'everything', but in some ways I think it's easier just not to conform at all and not to play the gamel otherwise they/you end up losing badly. DS1's friends all have £xxx of equipment in their bedrooms - TVs, X-boxes, playstations, DVD players, etc. etc. He has none of this.

just remembered, as well as dh's neice's list that we all have to stick to, dh's parents each go and buy themselves a present, then dh gives them the money. wtf?! fil got himself a watch last year, he was wearing it from october.

I totally agree, the materialism is way OTT. I have managed to persuade my siblings and parents to put a £20 cap per couple on our mutual pressies (so £60 total) and for DH's family we do a secret santa thing so each only buy one pressie with a limit of £40 in it, everyone gets one pressie that way. In both cases children are not included, but we don't spend much on them either and there aren't many of them, luckily! My main problem is that my DTs' birthday is 14 Dec, so combine a twin birthday with a twin christmas 11 days later and we're broke, even tho we intend to limit what we spend, so have decided to give them a party in the summer 'Christening anniversary party' to spread things out a bit.

I like Christmas but agree don't like the OTT buying. My boys get one to two pressies from us and that's it. My DH and I have decided that we'll buy each other something small but then put money towards buying something nice that we need for the house.

I have made my own chutney from apples in our yard and have spent hours drying out bloody walnuts. Friends, relatives, neighbours etc will be getting that.

As far as immediate family goes - i do like buying them presents when I can see things that I know they will want and like but I hate having to buy things for people that I don't particularly like and have no idea what they'd want anyway - like brother in laws.

Miaou, I agree with you too and this thread has inspired me to arrange a spending cap/no presents deal with my family this xmas too - especially my sister who is coming to stay and has a real thing about getting us far too many presents, which I hate and would like to put a stop to.

Another great ploy is to go away for xmas - obviously difficult if money is tight, but maybe you could stay with friends or go to the house of someone who will themselves be away, and house-sit. Then you can just say "we'll be away, don't worry about presents for us this year".

I think with the environmental thing reaching a head now there will be a proper backlash against christmas soon and a move to make it much more pared-down. Hope so anyway.

personally I find present wish lists helpfull. I'd rather get mum the CD or book she wants, and i'd rather be given things that I will use / read myself. BUT i don't think we are a very big spending family and buying on list isn;t compulary, it just ideas if any one asks.
somethings on mine or dhs pressie list I know we would only get each other- this tends to include bits to upgrade our bikes, can't see the parents going to bike shop with a part number for us...
The list lives on teh fridge and is rolling so its used for birthday inspiration as well.

I love christmas for so many reasons but do agree with you miaou on so many points

I agree Miaou. As a family we have started buying 'table' presents £5 and under and a group of girlfriends, there are 6 of us, it used to be an expensive time. We now just buy one present for one person, names drawn out of a hat. You can get some great gifts for under a fiver and i've found they've been better received than more expensive gifts tbh. We've started giving money to charity at work too instead of sending cards and presents. DD I fear may receive a little more but hey ho

my neice's list is very compulsary.

Children still get a fair bit though, neices & nephews etc.

Children still get a fair bit though, neices & nephews etc.

Miaou, I agree with you about the whole commercialisation of Christmas. I dont much care for it either.

I do like the Christmas period though (although I am not religious), simply because for me its a nice family tradition, its about getting together, cooking lots of lovely things - my fav past-time, having a laugh, not working and generally enjoying ourselves. I do get stressed about the present buying thing within my family. None of my brothers have children, or a mortgage, or anything else. This year they really arent getting anything. Nor do I expect them to get me anything either. I suggested money for DD and DS's trust funds last year and it was considered mercenary. But mercenary money vs plastic tat that gets played with once.....I personally prefer the more useful sort of gift for my children. I also dislike the prestige awarded to "who will be cooking Christmas dinner/hosting 'competition'" that seems to occur between mine and DP's family.

I do agree with you Miaou - it is so hard to 'keep up' when people spend thousands. BIL and girlfriend spend at least £1500 on their 5 yo ds, they are chucking his current WIDESCREEN tv that's in his room to get him a new one, he has everything and more a child could even think of - inc D&G socks FFS!!! They aren't well off, council flat, she's but PIL think we;re quite mean yet spend the whole year saying what a shame it is that BIL and partner don't have any money!! Hey!!! Wonder why?!!! We can't and don't want to keep up!!! My 2 get loads of parcels but none of it costs a fortune - I start buying in January and it's all done - all in sales!! DS is getting scalextrix this year - a set DH bought years ago and has never used!!! How mena but ds will love it!! DD is getting lots of sale toys too and she will love them - all bought cos she will use them. Family - we just by for kids altho my db and sil do a £2 kimit from the tacky factory shop for each other just for a laugh!! I also recycle unwanted birthday presents etc as they always get tat that no-one wants and is usually ideal for aforementioned nephew who seems to be taking after his parents and loves tat a- the tackier and dodgier the better!
Anyway, merry Xmas!!! STill got he xmas card and pressie making to do with a glitter loving 3 yo!!t

do you know what sums up the awful commercialism of xmas for me? those awful toiletries sets that are always 3 for 2 in boots in run up to xmas. they are so impersonal - you might as well just give someone a fiver! if you know so little about someone that this is the best gift you can think of then you probably don't need to buy them a gift. There a people starving the world FFS and over here we're buying crappy toiletries kits. just mad. I do love christmas though - decorations, baking cookies and playing jonny mathis.

smittenkitten, do I know you in RL

lol

Hi there

It can be stressful getting presents for everyone at Christmas but we have bought these great personalised photo calendars from a new company that we saw at The Baby Show. Have a look at this link .

The order came really quick and for once I haven't got to go trawling through the shops for inspiration. I know that everyone is going to love them - especially with the photos that we have taken over the past few months.

What do you think? Has anybody thought of doing this?

I try to buy personal stuff, it isn't always easy but I think i've done quite well since we've been spending less and no smellys apart from for my mum maybe who likes that sort of thing.

I haven't read the rest of the messages yet,but I agree with you.

I think some people will think me mean for not spending loads on the dd's at Christmas,but they have so much stuff already.Plus they get loads of gifts from other people.It just seems plain wrong to me to spend money just for the sake of it.

My mum is going to decorate their bedroom as aChristmas present,which I thought was a great idea.

Anyone who complained that they didn't get a present from me,would certainly not get one the next year on principle.

I enjoy Christmas now we have children. I didn't like it much before though. We don't go overboard on presents and I try to limit it to under £150 in total - that's DH and me, the 2 boys, my mum and brothers, and tokens for the 13 great nephews and great niece.

The whole family/big dinner thing is a lot of pressure though. The nicest Christmas we had was two years ago when my mum, dad, brother, DH, me and the boys hired a house in St Ives in Cornwall for the week. We had lasagne for Christmas dinner that mum had cooked and brought with her, and then spent the rest of the day walking on the beach and playing games. No pressure, not hassle, it was great. And as we were all together on Christmas eve it meant DH, my brother and I could go out for a drink in the evening with mum and dad babysitting which was a real luxury.

It was also a great Christmas as it was my Dad's 80th birthday and, as it later proved, his last Christmas and birthday as he died the following summer.

Just enjoying the family you have is what Christmas is all about - even if it's only you and the kids. Until three years ago my boys had 3 grandparents and now they only have one. Christmas really brings it home to us. Presents aren't impotant and neither is slaving over a hot stove.

Sorry to sound all Norman Rockwellish.

naturemum - the thing I always wondeer about getting those sort of calendars for pressies is by the ned of the calendar (Dec 2007) the children won't look much like they did at the time the photos were taken iyswim

Yeah ...I hate Christmas too, I saw some christmas stuff in shops in September..why? Also ds bday is 17th Dec, so the "Fun" never ends. Me and ds dad are separated,so he gets incredibily huge amount of plastic crap which just takes over. It's like 4x the normal amount. I HATE IT!
Also ds is like over excited wild animal in build up to Birthday AND Christmas, and of course there is always the wonderful birthday party, ready to mop up any spare cash which is hanging around (like there is always tons of it)
Also have to start new rant about birthday parties, like when they are in Year 1 or 2 and invite every member of the class, and you end up forking out for yet more plastic crap as presents sometimes twice a week. DS once got invited to 7 parties in one month..cards........wrapping paper..it just goes on and on.

Hi Lucy - yes I see what you mean - but they are always cute aren't they! No matter how long ago the photo was taken.