Would Jesus have known who he was as a baby?

[FloralGums]

I was pondering this following a sermon at Midnight Mass.
Was he a totally human baby or do you think he was more than that? Was he sentient?
I was thinking of the visit of the shepherd and Magi, and the flight from Herod and if he was aware.
When do you think he became aware of his true self?
I was hoping there might be someone knowledgeable or with some insights from clerical training or something.

For clarity (incase this comes up in Active) I am posting this on Christian Mumsnetters, which is primarily intended for the use of Christians. Yes I am aware it the internet and anyone can post etc etc but I am not interested in atheists posting about sky fairies or flying spaghetti monsters so won’t be responding to those posts. Feel free to start your own discussion on Philosophy/Religion.

I really hope it doesn't become judgmental and 'gatekeepy'. The only gatekeeping criterion for posting should be a spirit of genuine respectful enquiry - unfortunately some posts definitely haven't been but that shouldn't mean we can't have a good discussion. IMO it's far better to ignore and report as necessary than get caught up in a negative interaction but that's easier said than done I suppose.

@pimplebum - Exodus 20:7 and Deuteronomy 5:11 Do not take the Lord’s name in vain. But you already know this, and yet you continue to do so - that is on you. Again! Only you and the Lord know what game it is you are playing, but be warned, it is a very dangerous one. See your Bible for reference. If you are genuinely seeking forgiveness, then speak with Him in prayer. Praise be Jesus Christ.

@Thegreatestoftheseislove @pimplebum has been back to say that she is autistic and finds it difficult to read a room. She's apologised.

I think I was entirely supportive of Christian MNetters wanting to stop disingenuous posting on the board, but I really don't think this is in anyway kind, especially to someone who has tried to make amends

Matthew 7:1-3 comes to mind I'm afraid.

Stop it. You're being unkind.

Besides, one could interpret taking the Lord's name in vain as doing bad things in the name of the Lord. For example, continuing to harass someone who's already apologised and is clearly struggling, because your legalistic worldview trumps kindness and compassion. Please, take a moment to really consider that a set of letters is perhaps not the most important thing when it comes to a relationship with God.
I understand this use of language offends you, and this has been understood by PP as well. PP was explaining that they didn't realise it would offend, because other Christians they've met haven't been offended.
As I said earlier, being on the Christian board and the protections this may afford does not mean you will never come across a Christian who disagrees with you, or who approaches their faith differently. It just means that people coming on and shouting "sky fairy" and similar can be reported as deliberately antagonistic. This could be a wonderful space for Christian theological debate underpinned by the basic assumption that God exists. You don't have to join in, but you don't get to berate others for their expressions of faith, either.

Thank you @Uricon2 💐 … God is my righteous Judge. 🙏 As He is yours and the named poster. I am aware of Scripture … do you believe the Bible, the Word of God, and what it teaches? I have pointed the named poster in the right direction for further help on matters Spiritual.

Just as an aside, within a church meeting, (which this board is, for all intents and purposes for those of us who love the Lord with all our hearts, all our soul, and all our mind), if somebody wilfully continues to do something they have been kindly asked not to do, and when that ‘something’ is to disrespect the church meeting and the Christian participants by taking our Lord Jesus Christ’s, and therefore, God’s name in vain, then any of their words that come after that are empty to me. In real life, I would gently guide them away from the church meeting, into a side room to prayerfully address any issues separately and to prevent further disruption to the main meeting.

Now, after all the disruption and sidetracking which has spoiled an otherwise interesting opening topic, it would be good to get back to it, but I am not skilled at holding my breath. The thread has already gone way off piste … but then, being as I am a born-again disciple of Christ Jesus and posting within Christian Mumsnetters, I am bound to observe the work of the enemy, as it is to be expected. In Him, those of us who know, know. 🙏

Well, I've got a fairly well regarded theology degree @Thegreatestoftheseislove and much more importantly, yes, I'm a Christian, or at least I try to be. That for me involves trying to emulate (very badly) the love and compassion of Christ even when confronted with people who phrase things or see things differently to how we might. I fail a lot of the time but I do aim for fairness.

I think your attitude to pimplebum (not putting a @ as she may not wish to read this) is unkind in the extreme. You describe this board as a "church meeting"? It is not going to be the same thing for everyone, RC, Orthodox, Evangelical, C of E, whatever, however sincere their beliefs and love of Jesus Christ. It just won't, and you can't shape it in the form you think it should take (disruption aside) and if you try, you will fail.

Pimplebum attempted repeatedly to apologise for any hurt caused and if you consider those words "empty", that is something you may wish to consider in your own prayers.

I think the problem with the apologies is that 2 out of 3 of them included very obvious and entirely unnecessary misuses of our Lord’s Messianic title “Christ” in an extremely derogatory manner.

Personally, I felt both of those very keenly 😢

I think your attitude to pimplebum (not putting a @ as she may not wish to read this) is unkind in the extreme. You describe this board as a "church meeting"? It is not going to be the same thing for everyone, RC, Orthodox, Evangelical, C of E, whatever, however sincere their beliefs and love of Jesus Christ. It just won't, and you can't shape it in the form you think it should take (disruption aside) and if you try, you will fail.

I agree with this. And I've been in plenty of groups within the church (which you could call a church meeting if you wish) where people have said "Oh my G-d" or "for Christ's sake" or any of those kind of phrases. I've even heard clergy members say then on occasion.

I am a Christian. I love Jesus. And I'm free to worship him, and question him, how I choose. That includes on this board. The same as I do at home group.

Again, they were explaining, as part of the apology, why they hadn't realised that it would offend or upset some people.
It is okay to be upset. It is not okay to insist that everyone else be upset/ offended by the same things. Christians come in many different varieties.

@WinterCoatsHelp God is my righteous Judge. 🙏 As He is yours and the named poster. I have pointed the named poster in the right direction for further help on matters Spiritual. It comes from a place of kindness, so, no, as long as the behaviour continues, ie, taking my Lord’s name in vain on this board, I won’t stop pointing them to the One to whom they need to apologise, however that may be percieved by other readers. This does not mean I am unsympathetic to the challenges and struggles, but you have judged me, and that is ok.

An apology has no sincerity or value when the ‘apology’ is opened by using the very same disrespectful words. After that, the rest is mere hyperbole - the reasons for which are known only by God, who knows the secrets of all our hearts, and the poster.

You feel disrespected. Not all Christians, and not all Christians on this thread, feel disrespected. It is okay feel disrespected, and the apology seemed very sincerely meant. But you can't assume that everyone subscribes to your version of Christianity. This isn't a church meeting of your church, this is a multi-denominational discussion space.

Are you saying that I’ve insisted that everyone must feel as I feel?

I have judged you; I know I do not have the right to judge you as God does, and I did not intend to. I may have erred, however.
It is a tricky balance. As part of my faith, I feel, as I think do you, a responsibility to speak the truth with love. If someone was being unkind or unreasonable in refusing to accept a different viewpoint as valid in my church meeting, they would be reminded by whoever was acting as chair that this is not conducive to discerning the spirit of God among us. They would be assured that their viewpoint has been heard and understood, and that they don't have to agree, but that they can't stop other people having different viewpoints.
In the end, you and your denominational beliefs are not the judges of what is and isn't acceptable on this board. Neither are mine; but while I am attempting to welcome a plurality of viewpoints (including ones I disagree with), you are attempting to restrict what can be said to things you agree with.

No, sorry. You did say personally. I was frustrated at the general situation of insistance that "Christians" must be offended by flippant uses of Christ's name. Or at least, offended/ upset enough to invalidate an apology that was sincerely meant and not intended to goad. I get you were only trying to clarify. I think I was trying to express that, upsetting as it may be for some Christians, that doesn't mean that the apology from another Christian (or interested person) wasn't genuine.

No, not at all I do not feel disrespected. It is not about me. 🤷

I hate to see my Lord’s name used in the way it was used on this board. I hate to hear it and see it ‘out there’, but choose to blank it because I understand that to those who use the word in that way, they are not actually calling on the Name of God … even though they will answer to Him for doing so. On Christian Mumsnetters however, this is a space where I can, and will, remind people that it is offensive to my Lord Jesus Christ, and to please desist from doing so in this space.

As an aside, your observation about it being a ‘multi denominational meeting place’, is just covered by one word: church. I see this board for Christian Mumsnetters to be a church meeting. It is that simple. In Christ there is no such thing as denominations, but that is a different topic, for a different thread.

I actually agree that we all one in Christ's body. Doesn't mean we can't have a multiplicity of perspectives, though.
My apologies, I thought you implied you felt disrespected, because you said it was "to disrespect the church meeting and the Christian participants". I interpreted that to mean that you felt disrespected, because I'm also a Christian participant and I didn't.

anyway, what do we know about what's offensive to the Lord? Probably our arguing is more offensive than a word

And you were judging another, clearly vulnerable, poster. Repeatedly. I'm really surprised at your behaviour tbh.

@WinterCoatsHelp Ah, well, on the matter of taking His name in vain, we do know what He thinks Exodus 20:7 and Deuteronomy 5:11.

I am pretty sure too we, as flawed human beings with ego, grieve Him all the time. I am a born-again disciple of Christ Jesus and so I am, second by second, aware that I need to keep striving to be better, do better, and to surrender to God, in His Holy Name. Psalm 139:23🙏

Yes, of course it's OK to point out your unkindness and your own judgmental attitude here. I understand you may not like hearing it but I also think hiding behind 'God is my only judge'-type messages is a bit much in the context of your attacks on another poster. As I say, I've read lots of your posts before and not perceived this attitude so I'm surprised really. Maybe you're having a bad day.

No wish to fall out about it but I do think we should hold ourselves to a better standard than that as fellow Christians; the internet is forever and words to someone going through a bipolar crisis should be particularly carefully chosen. Anyway, I hope you will take that in the intended spirit.
God bless 🙂

You like spamming the same thing over and over again, don't you?

You have judged her, and that's ok.

🤣. If the same response is required to the same sort of thing, then, yes, I will merely repeat my same answer. Simples. Well observed! 😀

Some of the professed Christians on this thread are displaying the sanctimonious form of Christianity that drives others away from God. It's very sad to read.

I find the lack of empathy and forgiveness by a couple of posters deeply depressing.