Would Jesus have known who he was as a baby?

[FloralGums]

I was pondering this following a sermon at Midnight Mass.
Was he a totally human baby or do you think he was more than that? Was he sentient?
I was thinking of the visit of the shepherd and Magi, and the flight from Herod and if he was aware.
When do you think he became aware of his true self?
I was hoping there might be someone knowledgeable or with some insights from clerical training or something.

For clarity (incase this comes up in Active) I am posting this on Christian Mumsnetters, which is primarily intended for the use of Christians. Yes I am aware it the internet and anyone can post etc etc but I am not interested in atheists posting about sky fairies or flying spaghetti monsters so won’t be responding to those posts. Feel free to start your own discussion on Philosophy/Religion.

Some of the replies on here are actually what help people to leave the christian faith. I'm an ex-christian and have met many people like this too, full of scripture quotes and messages of love while disrespecting and looking down on anyone not exactly like them. Essentially bullies who've found their way into the church and use their apparent faith to feel superior. I will say I've also met some fab christians and had some great open and honest discussion. If your church is to grow then you need more of them, loving, kind, willing to listen and understand other perspectives, while standing firm in what they believe.

I find the need of some posters to come on a Christian board to undermine people's Christian beliefs, despite the descriptor that that's not what this board is for, pretty rude.

@LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms and @Thegreatestoftheseislove you have derailed the thread with continuous attacks on a poster who has apologised and explained their perspective.

You have been persistently unkind. Given that ‘the greatest of these is love’, I’m sad.

I find writing off a person's lived experience as pretty rude too. Christians, in fact people of any faith, should be taught to question and to look deeper to determine if their faith answers these deep questions, or not. I'd hazard a guess that I've spent as much time in the company of a diverse group of christians as many of the regulars of this board. Jesus's teachings, should they be true, weren't about hiding away and feeling superior, they were about meeting people exactly where they were/are! A strong faith should withstand respectful questioning and be able to discuss different perspectives. It's sad to see such insular views and reports to MN or tagging MN instead of actual considered replies.

I have a theology degree too, though I’ve forgotten more than I remember. I also work in the church and am a lay leader. I’m glad to say in real life I come across few people who are as rigid and unkind as this thread has become.

In home groups, we discuss our interpretation of scripture and examine why we differ. We don’t pronounce who is right or who is allowed to speak.

All faith, prophecy and wisdom without love is nothing, a sounding gong or tinkling cymbal.

On reflection of all that's been said, I think we are a type of church here. Wherever followers of Jesus gather, there's a church even if it's not a building. This MN church has a lot of different chapels in it for all the different denominations that are gathering here. Right now we're a brand new church as this is a brand new board, so we're all getting used to being here. Our core beliefs are the same though, no matter the differences in practice or liturgies.

Like any church (I hope!) everyone is welcome! Inside the church people should find Jesus, and He alone is able to transform them from doubters into believers. Personally I don't mind non-Christians showing up here if they just want to see what it's like, or ask questions. They're very welcome. After all, we Christians were outside the Church once, we had to come in and learn about Jesus and our faith too.

What I don't appreciate is people who come in with a disruptive agenda who've no intention of learning or listening. They're going to be whispering to all and sundry 'these people are fools, they believe in an imaginary person!' We have every right to object to that. Sadly we cannot moderate our own board, MNHQ have to do that.

We are all at a disadvantage here, because we only have a person's messages to go by, we cannot see their facial expression or body language. This can mean we miss important clues as to the meaning behind what's said. I do think pimplebum has sincerely apologised for the disruption caused and I don't believe her intent was to be disruptive in the first place, her thoughts just didn't come across well when written and so ruffled some feathers. Heaven knows I've been guilty of that on occasion. I think she poses some important thoughts that could be discussed elsewhere.

What am I trying to say here. I think we need time to build this board into a resilient community. The enemy, of course, will always be stirring things but we need to resist that. Personally, I'm learning that it's better not to post replies in haste, always seek the Word for guidance when needed, wait on the Spirit if need be. Never feel pressured to respond. Take time away to spiritually recharge. We need Jesus first, the rest can follow.

There you go. It's quite rude to think Christians, or people of any faith, don't already question and look deeper. Your loved experience isn't the only way. I'm married to a scientist with a deep Christian faith who delved very deep before committing himself to Christianity. I know many people who have done the same.

What you call insular views, many call having experienced something different from you. Don't you think your POV sounds a bit insular?

A strong faith should withstand respectful questioning and be able to discuss different perspectives.

I totally agree with this. However that's not what is happening here. It's a shame this place can't be a safe place for Christians to share, while those of you who want to challenge stick to the religion / philosophy board as you have been asked to.

@ChristmasStars what do you think about the couple of Christian posters who have been so unforgiving and unkind on here?

I don't think it's good to be unkind but I do understand their frustration at people abusing this board when asked not to. We are all on a journey in our faith and nobody is perfect.

However I also don't really like whataboutery. It's a form of deflection away from one's own misdemeanours often.

I'm not sure why you've superimposed so much that I didn't actually say on to my comment. Case in point.

@ueberlin2030 your use of the laughing emoji to react to my post perpetuates the impression that some people are just here to mock.

But do you see pimple’s posts as abuse of the board?
I have seen some misunderstandings, and some unkindness. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone undermining other people’s faith or mocking them. Or maybe that person who was saying there’s no historical evidence for Jesus’ existence, which was inappropriate for this board.

It’s a long thread now, so you may have seen things I have overlooked.

Don't you laugh when you find something laughable?
I've also liked and hearted several wonderful posts.

Laughable? Interesting word. I don't think there was anything laughable in either of my posts that you laughed at. It says a lot about you and your attitude to a serious matter.

Where do you get that idea from? I haven't said anything at all about pimple and I appreciate that they apologised / explained their responses a bit more.

Sorry @ChristmasStars - I think on a complicated thread like this it’s easy to misunderstand what people are referring to.

I must have misunderstood your disagreement with Ueberlin and CurlewKate.

I see many posts on MN where people seem to be arguing about agreeing with each other.

What are you referring to specifically? I have directly and indirectly quoted you.

@SensibleSigma my issue is with people who have an axe to grind with the Christian faith coming on the board that was set up for Christians to share with each other (or with interested parties) and trying to undermine their beliefs. I don't think that's what pimple was doing.

I feel the same about people doing similar on the Muslim board or any other specific board created for like minded people to share their common ground and find support from each other.

Ok, @ChristmasStars I’ve scrolled back and reread. You are going back to an argument you were having with Ueberlin on page 6 and before.

My memory isn’t good enough to track people back that far.

I don’t think the original question is salvageable after all the meandering and squabbling, so I’m out.

firstly thank you very much for all the posters who have taken the time to write a supportive comment , you literally have no idea the positive good you have done to my heart

I am a person who is v v v hard on myself
I attempted to take my life at 19 and again at 29 when i was totally un diagnosed ( the autism is only last 5 years ) and just thought that I was mad and bad and definitely out of step with my peers .
what triggered my university attempt was “ speaking out in a tutorial”. I was actually having a manic episode and had been up for days, of course I was gobbling off and spouting all sorts of if bollocks … when I came down and “ realised” ( falsely believed ) everyone on my course and my teachers now hated me and thought I was an imbecile , I felt that death was a really obvious choice it made total sense to me at the time like I was actually doing the world, my course mates and family a favour
luckily I was sectioned
Jesus and my spiritual life has kept me alive through some dark days of loss and struggle

i now at 55 foster and work with troubled teens who have asd and mental health issues

The day a panel of social workers said I was passed as capable to foster I went straight to my nearest church ( Baptist which was closed 😆) … found a catholic one which was only open because it was being cleaned ) and sobbed with gratitude that God had allowed me to be seen as” capable” .,,,, I remain grateful to this day. ( but not always normal 😂) especially menopause which has fucked my head no end !

i say Christ a lot in my daily vocab and have been pulled up on it by serious Christian’s and do try to moderate , but it’s somewhat ingrained
but for me it’s calling to him , not swearing or taking him in vain , mainly when I’m dealing with difficult admin in the phone ! When I get to see him ( i have had cancer twice so I’m guessing sooner rather than later ) I am sure he will know what was in my heart every time I used his name.

just came back to say a big ((( hug))) thanks to the kind understanding folk on here …
and to those that still can’t stand me this will be my last post and i send my love and best wishes to you all for a peaceful healthy and love filled 2025

Going back to the original question, John the Baptist knew who Jesus was while he was still in the womb- he leapt for joy when he heard Mary's voice. So I would assume that Jesus could also have knowledge of who he was as an infant.
Jesus was also subject to human frailty and felt pain, both physically and mentally. I don't think I'd completely dismiss someone who said Jesus could have had a disability, but to suggest that he could have engaged in sinful sexual behaviours is blasphemy. If Jesus had sinned he could not have saved us.

eh, only if you believe being gay means "sinful sexual behaviours". some of us are queer Christians here. It's a whole different debate, but blasphemous to some, not to all

I am sorry to read of your many troubles @pimplebum. I truly hope nobody here can’t stand you! I know that will not be the case for my Christian sisters and brothers here, and any words that may have appeared harsh to the undiscerning who have not been filled with the Holy Spirit, were coming from a place of Biblical correction, not from anything negative.

Whether or not it is ingrained in you to say the words you said in your earlier posts, I am pleased to see now at least some awareness of trying to moderate your language. I am afraid this did not come across in your earlier posts. Unfortunately you posted at a time when there was a lot of other disruption and disrespect being shown, and some upset caused to such an extent that some Christians feel they can no longer participate. That too is very sad and unnecessary.

It is worth repeating that you did not need to seek forgiveness from me, as I had nothing to forgive. You did no harm to me, only yourself. if you are truly repentant for taking His Holy Name in vain in your posts, then the forgiveness will come from Him if you prayerfully ask. He knows your heart. If you know Him as you say you do, then you will know this already.

Re your previous posts, I am sorry for seeing the rest of your words following taking Christ’s name in vain, as being disingenuous and full of hyperbole. It is not a justification, but it all happened at a time this ‘church’ on this Christian Mumsnetters page was under attack.

I reciprocate your best wishes for 2025 and wish you the wholeness and healing and peace that can come only through Christ Jesus.

'Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.' 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. It's what God says, so it's what I believe.

don't worry, I've had enough people with homophobic beliefs quote this at me. I could argue the toss with the clobber passages, but I can't be arsed.