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Original poster

Would Jesus have known who he was as a baby?

293 replies

FloralGums · 01/01/2025 21:52

I was pondering this following a sermon at Midnight Mass.
Was he a totally human baby or do you think he was more than that? Was he sentient?
I was thinking of the visit of the shepherd and Magi, and the flight from Herod and if he was aware.
When do you think he became aware of his true self?
I was hoping there might be someone knowledgeable or with some insights from clerical training or something.

For clarity (incase this comes up in Active) I am posting this on Christian Mumsnetters, which is primarily intended for the use of Christians. Yes I am aware it the internet and anyone can post etc etc but I am not interested in atheists posting about sky fairies or flying spaghetti monsters so won’t be responding to those posts. Feel free to start your own discussion on Philosophy/Religion.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Thegreatestoftheseislove · 03/01/2025 02:24

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 02/01/2025 20:34

We can ask Him when we are with Him in His kingdom. 😊

Show quote history

Yes! And Amen!

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 03/01/2025 02:29

@MargaretThursday So maybe we can have the same thing. A notice that anyone making offensive/derisive comments will be prayed for. We could have a Wednesday evening online prayer group for this. 😁

Love this! 😀

pimplebum · 03/01/2025 02:57

to err is human to forgive divine …

my wife’s Catholic Church has welcomed me with all my faults with open arms , my lovely friends and Co worker do enjoy my interest in all faiths and I feel safe and loved to be able to debate honestly and with my robust humour (which has quite literally saved my life at times)

i am actually been awake all night due to bad mental health and stumbled back ion this forum as I thought it may be comforting , I was originally quite stimulated by the op primal question but sidetracked it sadly , again didnt mean to

realising to my horror my light hearted remarks have caused such a commotion and have offended people is hugely distressing for me , like I said I apologise most sincerely
I often come across wrong in writing
I have had to apologise in the workplace for blunt emails it’s part of having autism

I am writing this with tears running down my face as I have a lifetime of inadvertently offending people it’s my worst fear

you are right I haven’t read the room , I seldom do , I literally can’t

I will go forth a multiply on the mental health board as sleep is totally off the cards for me now
may god bless you all and again , no offence ment

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 03/01/2025 06:34

@MargaretThursday , As ueberlin2030 has again expressed great amusement as a reaction to a post, then I nominate their name to be on our Wednesday list 😀

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 03/01/2025 06:41

pimplebum · 03/01/2025 02:57

to err is human to forgive divine …

my wife’s Catholic Church has welcomed me with all my faults with open arms , my lovely friends and Co worker do enjoy my interest in all faiths and I feel safe and loved to be able to debate honestly and with my robust humour (which has quite literally saved my life at times)

i am actually been awake all night due to bad mental health and stumbled back ion this forum as I thought it may be comforting , I was originally quite stimulated by the op primal question but sidetracked it sadly , again didnt mean to

realising to my horror my light hearted remarks have caused such a commotion and have offended people is hugely distressing for me , like I said I apologise most sincerely
I often come across wrong in writing
I have had to apologise in the workplace for blunt emails it’s part of having autism

I am writing this with tears running down my face as I have a lifetime of inadvertently offending people it’s my worst fear

you are right I haven’t read the room , I seldom do , I literally can’t

I will go forth a multiply on the mental health board as sleep is totally off the cards for me now
may god bless you all and again , no offence ment

You need no forgiveness from me @pimplebum , and to be frank, you had no need to read the room as your disrespect and disruption was made very clear to you. If you feel convicted by your behaviour, then the person to speak with is your ‘best mate’, ‘Jesus’. I trust you will soon recover from your distress, and your mental health soon regains some equilibrium. Part of being a grown up is to learn from our mistakes, poor mental health or not.

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 03/01/2025 07:33

pimplebum · 03/01/2025 02:04

“ oh my christ” as Pamela from gavin and Stacey would say !

I offer my sincere apologies , it was not my intention to cause offence

I am a gay autistic bi polar woman and I do believe Jesus was these things too ( at least I hope he was)

my devout catholic wife does not agree with me but understands my reasoning
he was a historical figure with evidence of things he did and said / there is no proof that he wasn’t these things !

why can’t he be these things ? Gay bi polar autistic people have existed since the dawn of time

I find it very upsetting that you are offended by this suggestion , certainly the gay Jesus has been discussed many times he was a maverick so not un reasonable or possibly on the spectrum ?

some of the most compassionate and big hearted people I have ever known have lived with mental health struggles

it’s my way of coping with my struggles to relate to Jesus/ God as if made in my image -
literally made in my image

i have wonderful friends and co workers who are Muslim and Jewish who I often have biblical intellectual conversations with and have given my opinion to them and we have discussed it and looked at evidence from the bible
not once have they reacted the way some of you have , laughed at me for sure , that’s fine I am not a serious person ! but they have taken what I say in good humour and certainty not taken offence

i absolutely have never said my opinion anyone to upset any one either on this forum or to anyone’s face
this is my first ( and probably should be my last) foray on the Christian Mumsnet … bit sad

my wife’s faith is so deep none of my crackpot theories will ever shake it

its what comforts and sustains me and I am sad that the idea of a gay bi polar autistic Jesus sounds horrible to you , to Me hes my best mate xxx

You cannot expect an “apology” which opens with using “Christ” as a swear word to be taken seriously. On a Christian board.

What an insulting and disrespectful post.
I believe this is called “doubling down” dressed in a thin veneer of “apology”.

Please stop now.

MobilityCat · 03/01/2025 07:40

pimplebum · 03/01/2025 02:57

to err is human to forgive divine …

my wife’s Catholic Church has welcomed me with all my faults with open arms , my lovely friends and Co worker do enjoy my interest in all faiths and I feel safe and loved to be able to debate honestly and with my robust humour (which has quite literally saved my life at times)

i am actually been awake all night due to bad mental health and stumbled back ion this forum as I thought it may be comforting , I was originally quite stimulated by the op primal question but sidetracked it sadly , again didnt mean to

realising to my horror my light hearted remarks have caused such a commotion and have offended people is hugely distressing for me , like I said I apologise most sincerely
I often come across wrong in writing
I have had to apologise in the workplace for blunt emails it’s part of having autism

I am writing this with tears running down my face as I have a lifetime of inadvertently offending people it’s my worst fear

you are right I haven’t read the room , I seldom do , I literally can’t

I will go forth a multiply on the mental health board as sleep is totally off the cards for me now
may god bless you all and again , no offence ment

It’s not entirely clear who your recent posts were directed at, but I’d like to kindly remind you that we all took the time to be patient with you. We carefully explained why the things you said were inappropriate and unacceptable, and we shared with you what we know and believe to be true. An apology requires taking full responsibility for one’s actions, and excusing your behavior does not fulfill that purpose. As Proverbs 15:1 teaches us, "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." We encourage you to reflect on this and consider responding with humility and sincerity. True reconciliation begins with genuine accountability and a heartfelt effort to make amends.

ChristmasStars · 03/01/2025 07:51

MobilityCat · 02/01/2025 19:06

You don't seem to understand that Yeshua was later translated into English as Jesus The earliest writings are Paul’s letters, starting around AD 50, about 20 years after Jesus’ death and resurrection. The Gospels were written next, between AD 65 and AD 95, based on eyewitness accounts and oral traditions. The New Testament was completed before the end of the first century. This timeline shows that the New Testament was written during the lifetimes of eyewitnesses, giving credibility to its historical reliability.
Could you please verify the facts before making assertions?

Show quote history

Exactly about the name. Reminds me of a man who once told me he couldn't believe in Christianity because he found it too weird that Jesus had disciples called Matthew, Mark, Luke and John when they were such western names!

SensibleSigma · 03/01/2025 07:53

I had no idea the Christian board had started gatekeeping and becoming judgemental. @pimplebum I wasn’t offended by your comments. Any of them.

I did think initially that they were intended to disrupt and distract, because on MN people have delighted in targeting and mocking Christians and making conversation impossible. Hence the board being started.

I’m disappointed by the scolding. It’s the behaviour that’s least attractive and welcoming in the church, and responsible for many people choosing not to explore faith.

ChristmasStars · 03/01/2025 07:53

Fascinating story about your eldest @MargaretThursday

AlteredStater · 03/01/2025 08:00

pimplebum · 03/01/2025 02:04

“ oh my christ” as Pamela from gavin and Stacey would say !

I offer my sincere apologies , it was not my intention to cause offence

I am a gay autistic bi polar woman and I do believe Jesus was these things too ( at least I hope he was)

my devout catholic wife does not agree with me but understands my reasoning
he was a historical figure with evidence of things he did and said / there is no proof that he wasn’t these things !

why can’t he be these things ? Gay bi polar autistic people have existed since the dawn of time

I find it very upsetting that you are offended by this suggestion , certainly the gay Jesus has been discussed many times he was a maverick so not un reasonable or possibly on the spectrum ?

some of the most compassionate and big hearted people I have ever known have lived with mental health struggles

it’s my way of coping with my struggles to relate to Jesus/ God as if made in my image -
literally made in my image

i have wonderful friends and co workers who are Muslim and Jewish who I often have biblical intellectual conversations with and have given my opinion to them and we have discussed it and looked at evidence from the bible
not once have they reacted the way some of you have , laughed at me for sure , that’s fine I am not a serious person ! but they have taken what I say in good humour and certainty not taken offence

i absolutely have never said my opinion anyone to upset any one either on this forum or to anyone’s face
this is my first ( and probably should be my last) foray on the Christian Mumsnet … bit sad

my wife’s faith is so deep none of my crackpot theories will ever shake it

its what comforts and sustains me and I am sad that the idea of a gay bi polar autistic Jesus sounds horrible to you , to Me hes my best mate xxx

I would gently suggest that your idea of Jesus modelled on yourself is making Jesus all about you, when He says if we want to follow Him we need to put our own self last, and others first. To conform to Him, not the other way around. I'm sure some of us may want to discuss this further but this thread's not the place.

pimplebum · 03/01/2025 08:55

I read the room wrong , been on Mumsnet for 12 years … it’s very sweary and frank like me! Last night I slipped up and posted on this Christian branch of Mumsnet not realising it’s very very different

I go to a church where I saw the priest on a bike and said “ christ on a bike ! “ and it made the 64 year old priest chuckle he wasn’t offended nor told me off for blasphemy he smiled as asked after my heath and has often asked me to do readings so not an outcast in real life thank god

i have a robust sense of humour that is sometimes dark humour but if you have walked in my shoes you would understand

My relationship with Jesus has always been as my friend but I have caused offence with the word “mate”
I am genuinely sorry for causing offence but even my opology is not good enough because it is deemed I haven’t taken accountability enough I can’t seem to please anyone tonight

I come back this forum this one last time to genuinely and wholeheartedly apologise for any offence cause , I am certain if we were face to face having this conversation you would know how contrite I am and we have had a “tone” and sense of humour misfire as we don’t know each other, people come across and misunderstand each other in written tone ( I sure as heck do)

I find comfort thinking Jesus was like me , not as vanity but as a survival and muddling through life survival technique.

Again sorry to have stumbled on here , shot my moth off and offended, it was not my intention

I wish you all a peaceful year feeling Jesus near to you x

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 03/01/2025 09:21

ChristmasStars · 03/01/2025 07:51

Exactly about the name. Reminds me of a man who once told me he couldn't believe in Christianity because he found it too weird that Jesus had disciples called Matthew, Mark, Luke and John when they were such western names!

Show quote history

That’s really sad.

I’m Irish and in the Irish language the name of Jesus recorded scripture as Ἰησοῦς / (transliterated) * iēsous is Íosa*.

I remember watching the Jesus film in Irish and was quite tickled by James, son of Alphaeus being translated as “Sėamas MacAlphaeus”

AlteredStater · 03/01/2025 10:20

I remember watching the Jesus film in Irish and was quite tickled by James, son of Alphaeus being translated as “Sėamas MacAlphaeus”

😂😂

poppymango · 03/01/2025 10:25

balloonsintrees · 02/01/2025 10:47

@Nessastats
Please go and read some proper theology...the existence of Jesus as the incarnation is up for debate; the existence of a Jewish prophet called Jesus is not.
He is not a made up character, there is substantial evidence of his physical existence e.g Tacitus & Flavius Josephus. At the very least the evidence of the effect of the ethical teaching which led to the proto- Christian church is obvious.
Can I suggest looking at the work of Alister McGrath, John Drane, and Peter Vardy? My GCSE and A-Level students can easily access this material so I shouldn't think it would be a problem for you.
And before you lay into me for echo chambers etc, I am an atheist RS teacher with a specialism in the study of religions & non religious belief systems. I have no agenda apart from trying to educate people to a level of better understanding.

Mic drop moment! 👏👏👏

poppymango · 03/01/2025 10:29

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 03/01/2025 09:21

That’s really sad.

I’m Irish and in the Irish language the name of Jesus recorded scripture as Ἰησοῦς / (transliterated) * iēsous is Íosa*.

I remember watching the Jesus film in Irish and was quite tickled by James, son of Alphaeus being translated as “Sėamas MacAlphaeus”

Show quote history

Love this!

Side note but Íosa is a really beautiful name.

ChristmasStars · 03/01/2025 11:32

balloonsintrees · 02/01/2025 10:47

@Nessastats
Please go and read some proper theology...the existence of Jesus as the incarnation is up for debate; the existence of a Jewish prophet called Jesus is not.
He is not a made up character, there is substantial evidence of his physical existence e.g Tacitus & Flavius Josephus. At the very least the evidence of the effect of the ethical teaching which led to the proto- Christian church is obvious.
Can I suggest looking at the work of Alister McGrath, John Drane, and Peter Vardy? My GCSE and A-Level students can easily access this material so I shouldn't think it would be a problem for you.
And before you lay into me for echo chambers etc, I am an atheist RS teacher with a specialism in the study of religions & non religious belief systems. I have no agenda apart from trying to educate people to a level of better understanding.

Thanks for this.

WinterCoatsHelp · 03/01/2025 14:15

@pimplebum tbh I think their reaction says more about other posters than it does about you. Some people can't conceive of a Jesus or a God that isn't exactly as they have been taught; that's ok, but it can lead to them being unkind towards those who just have different ideas. I did think you were winding people up with your first post, and I'm very sorry for misinterpreting what you said.

And as for those continuing to bash after an apology, or nitpicking the wording of said apology, what happened to forgiving 70 times 7? Pimple wasn't even intending to offend anyone, and sincerely apologised straight away for any offence caused.
If you don't want to think about a gay or disabled incarnation of God, you don't have to. But being on a Christian board doesn't mean you won't hear about other people's sincere understandings of the Christian faith, nor does it mean that everyone will be offended by the same things that offend you, just because we're also Christian. And there's a difference between arguing that a gay Jesus isn't biblically accurate, and arguing that the idea of a gay Jesus is inherently offensive to all Christians.

WinterCoatsHelp · 03/01/2025 14:17

SensibleSigma · 03/01/2025 07:53

I had no idea the Christian board had started gatekeeping and becoming judgemental. @pimplebum I wasn’t offended by your comments. Any of them.

I did think initially that they were intended to disrupt and distract, because on MN people have delighted in targeting and mocking Christians and making conversation impossible. Hence the board being started.

I’m disappointed by the scolding. It’s the behaviour that’s least attractive and welcoming in the church, and responsible for many people choosing not to explore faith.

I'm not surprised tbh. Some Christians seem to think that their version of faith is the only acceptable one, and expect every Christian they encounter to think the same way.

HaddyAbrams · 03/01/2025 14:50

@pimplebum I wasn't offended by any of your comments either. I don't see the issue with referring to Jesus as a friend/mate or discussing his sexuality or mental health. There are many many flavours of Christianity, and it would serve some posters on here well to remember that theirs isn't the only one.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 03/01/2025 16:14

WinterCoatsHelp · 03/01/2025 14:15

@pimplebum tbh I think their reaction says more about other posters than it does about you. Some people can't conceive of a Jesus or a God that isn't exactly as they have been taught; that's ok, but it can lead to them being unkind towards those who just have different ideas. I did think you were winding people up with your first post, and I'm very sorry for misinterpreting what you said.

And as for those continuing to bash after an apology, or nitpicking the wording of said apology, what happened to forgiving 70 times 7? Pimple wasn't even intending to offend anyone, and sincerely apologised straight away for any offence caused.
If you don't want to think about a gay or disabled incarnation of God, you don't have to. But being on a Christian board doesn't mean you won't hear about other people's sincere understandings of the Christian faith, nor does it mean that everyone will be offended by the same things that offend you, just because we're also Christian. And there's a difference between arguing that a gay Jesus isn't biblically accurate, and arguing that the idea of a gay Jesus is inherently offensive to all Christians.

Quite.

What is biblicaly accurate is that we are all made in the image of God. Not just the 'perfect' ones. I'm a short, rotund autistic woman and I am an image God. My ADHD son is made in God's image. As is my picture perfect friend and her profoundly disabled daughter.

Like @pimplebum I find it upsetting that some Christians believe that the inate characteristics of people who society shuns are offensive to God and Jesus.

Uricon2 · 03/01/2025 17:37

Having said that I don't post on this board (sorry) and while still thinking some of the comments a day or so ago were deliberately provocative, I truly think that @pimplebum deserves a lot of credit for coming back, apologising for any offence caused and explaining as she has.

While I think it reasonable to assume Jesus Christ looked like a 1st century Jewish man (quite a lot different to some of the stained glass, probably), we are all indeed made in the image of God and noone is outside His love for His children.

That's my variant of Christianity anyway.

1WanderingWomble · 03/01/2025 17:43

@pimplebum While I don't agree with your assessment of Jesus I'm not offended at all that you have that interpretation. I believe Jesus was fully man and God, so he was perfect/sinless but at the same time subject to all our physical frailties and the full emotional range that we experience.

It's interesting to speculate about to what extent these conditions may be part of our 'fallen' physical nature, while still exerting a huge influence on the development of our personalities. I don't believe in separating the soul from the body - we are a 'package deal' but it's fascinating to wonder how different things might have been in a world that was never touched by sin or disorder.

Many wonderful, compassionate people and creative geniuses have conditions like ASD, bipolar etc, and maybe because of rather than despite that. Sometimes we're so quick to label something as a disorder rather than part of the natural range of human experience, although at the same time obviously these conditions can also be very difficult and disabling to live with. So I see where you're coming from with that but I don't personally find typical characteristics of those conditions in the Jesus of the Gospels to the extent that I would be comfortable suggesting them. But perhaps like many autistic people, He was unafraid to call out hypocrisy and like many bipolar people, he felt emotions deeply. What I can say with confidence is that He has a deep understanding of your experiences and I'm so glad you feel He is your best friend.

I'm sorry you've been scolded on here after clarifying your intentions, people would do well to remember that there may be posters with a range of conditions posting here and perhaps be more understanding. Particularly on the Christian board.

ueberlin2030 · 03/01/2025 17:47

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 03/01/2025 06:34

@MargaretThursday , As ueberlin2030 has again expressed great amusement as a reaction to a post, then I nominate their name to be on our Wednesday list 😀

Pray for whoever you like, as already stated. 🙃🙃🙃

SensibleSigma · 03/01/2025 17:54

I’m pleased that a more open approach is now being shared. Jesus was not a holier than though scold. He sought out people the society of the time shunned. He had no time for people who judged others. Given we are all made in God’s image, it would be appropriate to be generous to those we disagree with or feel very different from.