Noisy Kids in Church- who should move seats?

[Truthfully555]

Seasons greetings All,

Went to a service on Christmas morning. Got there early so I could sit where I like and be comfortable. 10-15mins into service I notice parents plus their two kids probably 6-9 are continuously making noise banging on the wooden prayer kneel rest and the pew itself. It's not loud enough to disrupt the service but it's very noticeable to anyone within 2 rows, it's especially so to me as they're one row behind. Didn't bother saying anything.I did turn round once just to see what was going on. The whole service essentially with this every couple minutes. I mentioned this to someone later and they said I should have moved. For myself, I got there early because I can get uncomfortable with anxiety overheating etc- moving seats when the church is now nearly half full and I'm probably not going to find somewhere comfortable doesn't seem right nor even possible. However, although I get that being Christian we're supposed to be generous and thoughtful, my thinking is that if you know your kids probably aren't going to be quiet or that they start being noisy and are not stopping anytime soon, that you shouldn't really be expecting everyone else to suffer for your convenience - I think they should move somewhere either the back or somewhere on the sides where there's less disruption to others. Who do you think should move?

Hi
I remember when my own were small ( I have 5 grandchildren now ). Someone saying she couldn't take hers to restaurants etc but how do children learn if you don't take them places.
Children are the best copy cats. So they watch you sitting still and enjoying the service and communion. In time with an acceptance around them and wanting them to return, they too will learn to sit still or have colouring books quietly etc. Was there no Sunday school.

I'd just put up with it for Christmas tbh. There will be loads of people there who don't usually bother so you don't want to make them feel unwelcome or they'll never come again. If it were a normal service I'd expect you to move or have a polite word with them. If you move they'll probably realise it's their kids that caused you to move. But again as I expect they don't usually bother going I'd cut them some slack.

Oh gosh that just reminded me, when they were singing, the choir with the piano player, loudly enough for all the church to hear and sing along to so they could all hear it, he ran off too fast for me and pressed the keys therefore adding to the surround sound music 😳 I was so embarrassed, and moved him away and kept him away after that. But the choir and musicians were lovely. The pianist explained it's a little difficult as he needs to focus on the music (of course) but he was nice about it and I apologised wholeheartedly and all was polite and lovely. We all joked hes going to be a church musician haha. Luckily apart from the odd dirty looks (not nice) the majority found him a joy and said all the kids do similar, and told me some stories of past children to help me feel better. Its people like op who made me feel shit expecting my child to sit and shut up as if they're honoured to be in the church. Christ loves the little children so this type might want to re read the bible.

People like you are the reason the death knell has been sounded for the church in the UK.
Children are the future of the church so yes they probably should take priority.
People are such misers about children i bet these weren't even making that much noise as you said it didn't actually disrupt the service as could only be heard within a couple of rows. Perhaps you need to look at yourself and work on your own tolerance a bit as it sounds like aren't good at coping with even modest sounds you weren't expecting.
Also yes why didn't you just move?

I think you do need to try to teach your children to behave in church. Most churches have cry rooms for kids who are more unruly than they should be in the pews. Mine generally did okay in church. I decided to try taking them to a short weekday service as well as the weekend service. I sat in the back row out of consideration. One of them was a bit silly that day and the guy behind me started praying loudly about my son's sinfulness. It was enough to put me off and I stopped taking them.

They're all atheists now, except one. Luke 17:2

I could have persisted but I wasn't signing up for judgement.

So you went to a church to remember the birth of a child that a young single woman was asked to bear and raise in a hostile world, give birth to in a stable reliant on the kindness of strangers to shelter and welcome her and her baby and found the inconvenience of two children disturbing your chosen seat barely tolerable? I think communal worship and A LOT more thought is exactly what you need. God was there as he is everywhere but you need to notice.

I'm a Quaker and we have often entirely silent meetings. There is a separate children's meeting for younger ones.

It's not that they aren't welcome - children usually do join the main meeting for the last 10 mins or so. But we recognise this format of worship isn't right for little ones because they aren't able to sit still in silence like adults and it isn't fair to them to expect them to do that. And because you can't join as a full member until ages 16 when we believe children are old enough to decide if they want to or not. Sometimes teens under 16 do come to meeting but they are old enough then to take part.

It really does depend on how family friendly the church and its services are as to whether noisy kids are going to be able to be accommodated. If your church is generally a quiet worship style OP, then I don't think it's unreasonable to find noisy kids jarring, as you're not used to it in that setting. If the family are new though, they may not know what the style is and may have been expecting something different and more family friendly. It would be fair to give them some grace.

You sound really argumentative, unpleasant re children who have a right to be there, and a chip on your shoulder re others responses who dont agree with you. And by the way, you don't get to assume children dont want to be there. At our church we have playgroups and also lots of things put on especially for children. They adore it, and my son does too. He loves the ladies there who give him a big fuss, he had his christening there, he loves it. A child kicking a chair and being a pest in the way children can, doesnt equal parents forcing them into something they dont want. Its attitudes like yours that put off parents, like some who have said as much here, from attending with their children who arent yet aware of how to behave appropriately. You are aware how to behave appropriately, as such you have no excuse. Children and their unbridled joy are very welcomed in church. For their innocence and joy, their openness and curiosity, and because christ loved the little children. I suggest you take a Christianity refresher course. Its one thing finding something irritating and havjng a moan, but your responses here suggest something more and are unpleasant. How dare you put off parents with young children? If you dont have them as you say, then you have no idea how it hurts when the odd church attendee gives the daggers or otherwise makes their disapproval known. One or two did it to me christmas eve. It hurt. Because that is my baby, creating familiarity with worship as is his right, and enjoying church community as is his right, and simply being a child, as is his nature and his right. Luckily most at the service told me they love children attending for the purity and joy they bring.

This post makes me so sad as a Christian parent. I wrote a long response and then deleted it.

All those saying 'children are the future of the church' please remember that they are also the present. They have as much right to be there are an adult.

In terms of churches advertising family services - yes they often do. Or the earlier service of 2 on a Sunday morning is most likely more adult orientated, and most likely a Sunday evening service would be too. I'm afraid at Christmas the poor vicar is probably on his last legs by 10am on Christmas morning and that will be an all-age service.

Merry Christmas. May you find the peace of the Christ-child this year.

OP your attitude is embarrassing. I would rather my church filled with parents introducing their children to God, than a judgemental, selfish woman bemoaning the presence of children because she has one preferred seat and she won't sit anywhere else in a half full church, but would prefer to spend hours moaning about the behaviour of children and being smug about perceived poor parenting despite never doing it.

Parenting in church is very, very difficult. I suggest you either go to 8am or an evening mass in future, or perhaps try virtual worship. Your tolerance is on the floor, and your smugness is insufferable. You appear to have forgotten the purpose of mass. Embarrassing.

I'm sorry you find it annoying but it's more likely that you as a mature adult can find the mental resources to learn to accept and ignore incidental noise than it is for a child to be able to be still and quiet without being subject to abusive levelsof parental threats which I wouldn't want to expect, nor would I want any families to decide not to come to church for fear of being disapproved of if the children aren't silent, or for the children to associate being in church with being restricted and unhappy.

Our vicar's standard welcome to everyone whether a longstanding member, a new member or a visitor, includes the words "please do not worry about any noise your children make, we all worship God in different ways" and every so often for the benefit of the elderly members of the congregation whose instinct is to glower at such children (and their parents) we get a sermon mentioning techniques to mindfully recategorise such noises as the sound of children learning gradually and at their own pace how to praise the Lord.

On the rare occasions where a service is so solemn and contemplative that this isn't appropriate, there is a parallel children's church service in the next door hall and different words are used to say that whilst normally everyone is welcome in the main service, on this occasion the service in here is for quiet contemplation and of course many of God's children find quietness more difficult than others so if that applies then the parallel children's church version may be a better option.

Very well put

I think it's par for the course OP...

Does your church have an accessibility officer? If so, for future they can help ensure the space you sit help with your anxiety etc.
I don't go to a church with pews(individual chairs connected) but I don't think it would have been unreasonable to ask the child very nicely to stop. Some movement is sub conscious. I jig my leg and I have to try not to as I realise it can annoy others. Equally though I don't realise I am doing it so I have to remember to check. Yes I know it probably was a conscious thing kicking the pew but if we take the 'assume the best' stance it often helps.
The reason I joined our church was because it has services and facilities that embrace children. There are many different churches, with different prayer styles and congregations and who don't have many young attendees. I think it's great we all have the freedom to find churches and services that suit us. At Christmas and Easter though, there are always going to be a different congregations and therefore different challenges for some.
I hope your next service is more peaceful.

You said they didn't interupt the service but were annoying to you. Just smile and put up with it.
It is so lovely to see parents dare to bring their small children to church.
Suffer the Little Children to come unto thee.
Make friends with them afterwards.
Hand them a mouse made out of your handkercheif.
Be extra forgiving. It's also Christmas.

Exactly.
And be joyful as you do this "suffering", as the children are blessings.

Over excited children on Christmas morning re over excited children on Christmas morning. Show me any child under 11 who can sit quietly on a day filled with presents, sweets, excitements and I will be concerned they are either very ill or a deep introvert.

Churches over a range of services over Christmas for a reason. Different people need different types of spaces so they can engage with God. A 10am Family Christmas Day service is never going to be quiet and meditative. I suggest speaking with the priest/ minister/ pastor in charge in future as they will know which of their services around Christmas will be quieter and more adult suited. It is that or looking for a Christmas Eve Midnight or 8am said communion type of service where families with younger children tend not to attend.

If you do choose to head to a family service expect there to be families. When it’s Christmas you can also expect extra’s who may not be familiar with church services who drop in because the doors are open and would only dream of doing so because it is Christmas.

That’s like saying you can learn to drive a car just by learning the theory before even getting behind a wheel. All skills need practice.

I think if the behaviour was really this disruptive, you should have turned round and politely asked the parent to get the children to stop doing that. I would guess there was some
kind of neurodivergence going on then if this was really happening as that was not normal behaviour for an 8 year old. And neurodivergence is one of the things you said you would give a free pass for, so just let it go and be prepared to move if it happens again, or as someone else suggested attend an online service which is as valid a way of worship as attending in person.

You could always do like my mother. She pulled aside some parents we'd sat behind after she learned about ADHD (in the 80s) and told the parents their son had ADHD and criticised them for trying to get him to sit still because he clearly couldn't and it wasn't fair to try to make him. 😬I still can't believe she did that.

I think there's a happy medium and also respect. My 4yo whispered through mass and looked at his book, I whispered back about the crib and candles and carols. But I wouldn't allow him kick the pew, crawl under the benches quietly, stand on the bench or play with the envelopes for offerings because I think there's a difference between kids being kids and being disrespectful.

Our priest was also fantastic and asked all the children to stand for the homily and asked them questions which was genius because they immediately were engaged and listened, and his message was suitable for kids and adults.

Attitudes like yours are part of the reason your church is only half full OP. Parents will not take thier children a second time if they are scowled at if thier DCs make a peep. The congregation will continue to shrink if children are not given a warm welcome.

I do not understand why so many Christians are judgemental towards the parents and children within their congregation when Jesus literally says 'do not judge' and to 'suffer the little children'.

I have PTSD and so have some understanding of why unpredictable and noisy children can be extremely distressing and make coming to church really difficult.
I manage it by sitting right at the back of church where I can slip out if needed. Where there are services without Sunday school, so the kids are in all service, I won't go. These are usually listed on the church website and are basically the services in school holidays.
The church has helped by providing some sofas at the back where I can sit with all the other people who need a more chilled space. It is lovely because we aren't on our own and feel like a proper part of the church. I had to mention it but we now also get offered communion in our seats which is really helpful.

I hope this is a joke OP.

do you have ANY ANY ANY idea how stressful for parents to be in church with their kids? I have three and about to be 4. Our church (all the oldies) voted against having an area build for families to keep to noise separate. There is no crèche, there is no alternative. I have had to BF 3 children in church because some stuffy old people cannot and will not change their precious building and I am so hurt. It’s either we are there with noise or our children won’t be there. I still find church the most stressful and panic inducing part of our week. And push has come to shove recently and I think we are going to have to leave and go somewhere where children are not viewed in the way you are speaking of.

note to you from a worn out stressed by church Mum-you don’t like the
noise YOU move

From my memories of being a kid in church the standard is that you get quietly whisper bollocked and then when you get home you're in big trouble, but persistent offenders get to stop going to mass and stay home watching the A team instead.
Obviously though they'll go to hell

What people are suggesting is that if you are an anxious, overheating person who doesn’t cope well with noise, and who can’t or won’t move seats mid-service, then that the Christmas morning service, which is pretty much guaranteed to be full of overexcited children who’ve been up since the crack of dawn, is a really odd choice.