Eating disorders - advice please

[feelingpositivemum]

My DD has been referred to CAMHS this morning as she is becoming more and more controlling over her food, she is losing weight and sounding more and more troubled about her diet.

She is not restricting her food to lose weight, she has always been skinny, but to gain some control in her life. (Her words)

I split up from her father last September and it started from then really. It's been a very slow and subtle change so we've only just really noticed it's becoming a problem.

She is really receptive to help, she wants to talk and she 'talks the talk' but as she says, she knows she needs to eat but her head won't let her.

I am utterly terrified, she's such a gorgeous, sensible, level headed girl and to hear her talk she sounds so different.

Sorry for long post, i was just trying to tap into some experts here. Do I try and encourage her to eat more, how far do I push it, do I let her take complete control or do I keep control of her diet if only to keep her weight up.

She wants control but if that is not eating enough do I take over?

Try and encourage her, but gently - don't talk about eating, talk about food, and how nice it looks.

Don't try and push dry foods - share an icecream with her - they're easy to swallow and taste ice. Make her interested in the food - let her help you with the cooking, and taste as you go along, but don't push her to eat a place of it.

Why not start letting her eat her food from a smaller plate? If she's less intimidated by it, her head might let her taste it.

Don't let her take control, and don't 'feed' the problem - if she doesn't want to eat, still serve the food, but don't stand over her whilst she eats it (I don't think for one minute that you do this)- let her do it in her own time.

Good luck!

Make sure it's not all about the food either. Address her feelings around control, expectations she feels are upon her, how she thinks about the separation of you and your ex. Model positive eating, mealtimes and attitudes to your own body - do you diet or moan about your looks?

Don't get too depressed that it might be your fault when it feels like that's what is coming out, but realise that some of the things you do may contribute positively or negatively and can be changed.

Enable her to take back control in other areas of her life. Is schooling / friendship / competitiveness an issue for her?

There will be a lot of things at play here, and the key is understanding that the food issues are a symptom of the problem, so addressing her weight is only a side issue, albeit an important one.

Seek advice from the eating disorders association if it would help, Beat.

Also think about her relationship with Dad, with siblings and within the family unit (even if a breaking-up one). She may feel she has taken on roles you hadn't realised, and her Dad needs to understand what's happening too.

Hope CAMHS help, I'm sure she will be ok. Sorry for garbled message, typing fast!

Thanks pixie, it's interesting because she has suddenly become really keen on cooking, going to the shops for the ingredients and cooking it. She eats the food, she's not totally not eating but has cut out all 'extras' like pudding, snacks, margarine, any luxuries and as she is active, she isn't maintaining her weight.

I get confused over the don't let her take control, but don't make her eat. Surely, if she isn't made to eat, she is taking control! Agh!

Sparkle, thanks. I have started positive mealtimes, now we are living on our own. They were very tense before and also, unfortunately for her still are half the week when with her dad. He can be very controlling and mealtimes aren't fun. Hence, where I am now. However, I can't do much about that other than try and show her a relaxed meal too.

She is a complete perfectionist, she admits herself she has to be in control. She is very competitive and enjoys lots of sport. she has not done so well this year and she asked me tonight whether I thought that this might be down to her not eating enough.

Her relationship with her Dad is complicated, she has taken on a nurturing role with her younger siblings esp her six yr old brother who she adores, whilst staying with him. I know this is probably wrong but so difficult to control from where I am and also to address with him.

The gp gave me the beat website, so have had a look. I'm hoping camhs will be able to help.

Feelingpositivemum - I have just found your thread and would like to join you. My dd is giving us cause for concern having changed her eating habits over the past few weeks. She started off wanting to eat more "healthily" - salads and fruit etc, and running a lot. She has always been very slim and athletic and has always been a good eater. Suddenly we find ourselves in a situation where she has lost weight and doesn't want to eat. I understand how terrified you feel and I realise that it will be doubly tough for you being separated from your husband.

I can recommend some very good books ( I am not good at links so will just print the names). Another good website is F.E.A.S.T and the Maudsley hospital in London have some very good information on eating disorders. Books are "Eating with your Anorexic" Laura Collins, "Skills-based Learning".. Janet Treasure (this is not the full title but you will find it by googling), and "Help your teenager beat an eating disorder" James Lock and Daniel Legrange.

I am new to all this and so cannot really give you much advice but I have a good friend who has been through similar and so I will pass on any information that I get. Perhaps we can just give each other a bit of support.

I can't post more at the moment as I have to go out but will check in later this afternoon. Good luck and try to stay calm

Hi twentyoneagain, I'm sorry that you are going through the same.

My DD is the same, really sporty and slim anyway and she started by not wanting to eat puddings anymore, or snacks, just main meals.

It is all happening so fast, this time last week we were aware she wasn't eating well and now she seems to be changing in front of me.

She's just been over for an hour (she's with her dad this weekend but we live close so she's always popping in) She spent an hour ttalking to me about what she's cooked today, what she's going to cook next weekend with me and even the week after,

She studies recipes all the time. When I couldn't help myself earlier, I asked are you going to eat this food. Oh no, she says, I don't connect cooking with eating it.

I don't know how I'm going to do this, it is so frustrating, and bizarre. I want my old DD back.

Long post, but it is all so much to take in. Please keep in touch, have you been to see the GP yet. We went to a female one and she was fantastic. She understood my concerns immediately and has referred us straight away. Hopefully we will get some more advice from them.

Good luck, how old is your dd?

I dont really have any advice to give you but think you are doing a great job.

I completely understand how her head works re cooking it but not eating it, i have had an eating disorder when younger (still is there a bit now as an adult in her early 30's). The whole time i LOVED cooking and loved watching people eat the food i have created, i was always having people around for dinner. I too studied recipes.

I am now married to a man who detests cooking but LOVES his food, an dhas admitted he would happily eat himself to death given the chance. That to is an eating disorder. We don't understand each others relationship with food but it makes perfect sense to both of us.

Luckily our ds is a mixture of both of us!

Your DD will come through this, and the fact she is talking about it is a massive step as i have never really talked about my feelings and thoughts until the last 2 years. SHe will just need lots of support and understanding from you, it will feel like you are coming up against several brick walls but you really need to just go with it. Also find an outlet for you, it could be a friend to cry with or it could be something more personal to you. You HAve to remember yourself as well.

Good luck.

Ah thankyou mtybf, it's very interesting hearing from the other side.

I'm really pleased she is talking and am looking forward to her having an outlet at camhs. She hopefully will be able to talk to them about how her little life is at the moment, I'm sure she feels very unsettled.

Interestingly, she told me the other day something that I find bizarre.

She is 13 and the only one in her year to have not started developing yet (at all, no boobs nothing). she said this is so frustrating and last year she got very frustrated and down with it. she says she was eating normally, but nothing was happening. So now she doesn't eat, it gives an excuse why nothing is happening. She can console herself that she now knows why it isn't happening and doesn't need to feel pressurised by the non event. What twisted logic! I have discussed that she needs to be a certain weight to start things off and she agrees with every word.....then refuses food.

twisted logic, but logic none the less. A logic that i understand. I was older when things started happenig (eating wise) for me, but it was an excuse for so many things. My issues were/are all about control and 'dark' thoughts. It was a personal punishment for my life. A life at that point i was wasn't worthy of having. If you have a 'healty' relationship with food you won't ever understand where she is coming from and the best thing for you to try and do is to except that and not even try to understand, however hard it will be for you. It really is an illness of the mind. My expierences and thoughts about food are probably very different to your DD.

Now it is more about 'learned behaviours' i can't eat infront of someone i dont know or trust, i can't eat if the person i am eating with has finished before me. I also can't sit in a 'public eatery' once i have finished my meal, that sort of thing. On the plus side i do now eat everyday, i do eat meals (as long as they aren't served for me), I can have second helpings etc.

This is going to be a long battle for you and your DD and unfortunately something that will probably always be there with her.

Thank you very much morethanyoubargainfor, it is very helpful to read your posts.

I am quickly coming to terms with the fact this is likely to be a long term battle. It's heartbreaking to see her struggle and I will do anything to help her through it.

Can I just ask, as it's new to us and we are floundering along. Do we serve a small meal and say she has to finish it along with say a teaspoon of pudding, just to make sure she doesn't 'slide' anymore, or do we leave it to her as she wants us to, and risk it getting worse. I'm worried the appointment will take a couple of weeks and in the meantime she will get smaller and smaller.

Thank you so much and sorry if this is too intrusive. x

No problem, if one tiny bit of advice helps you then i feel it isn't intrusive at all. I am in a much better place now.

I personally would back off, the more you tell her to eat the deeper it will become for her. I would limit the amount of talking about food you do. However do serve small meals but let her serve herself IYKWIM. I also used to swap plates for side plates so i could get away with eating less, so do insist that she use dinner plates all the time. This will also help her to feel like she is eating less as her plate won't ever be full. As if she feels she is in control it will be better for her IME, you could also just leave 'nibble bits' around the house in various locations as she, (if she is anthing like me) will just pick at foods. Place some of these items in a 'private' location, not just in the main living areas as she is likely to feel like she is being watched.

Thank you.

Thanks Pixie, I will remember that. We've already made the next appointment with the same gp. My dd said she only wanted to see her and I understand what you are saying and will keep it in my mind.

Honestly, some gp's are hopeless aren't they with their ridiculous comments.

It is extremely helpful to get a perspective from someone who has been through this themselves, especially as I have not really ever had issues about food and neither has anyone else in our family.

We have taken the view very early on that not eating is not an option for DD. I think that it is fortunate that both DH and myself are united on this front and are supporting each other. It has been less than a week now since we started giving DD meals that we agreed with her and she has to eat them. I have definitely seen a lift in her mood. She was very down and unresponsive whereas now is more talkative and upbeat. I am watching carefully to ensure she does not throw up after eating and, unbeknown to DD, we have school watching from a distance at mealtimes. We have agreed with DD what she will eat - some of which we are happy with and some we are not - but have told her in no uncertain terms that if she cheats us then we will immediately increase the amounts. We have agreed weighing times with her and have also told her that if she loses any more weight that we will increase food again. At the moment we are getting the weight stable and will deal with increasing it later on. DD has admitted that she does not necessarily want to lose more weight (although she wouldn't mind), but is adamant that she will not put any on.

Feelingpositive can your husband help in any way? It is probably very difficult to talk to him given your split but, for DD's sake you do need him on your side if possible. I am sorry that you are on your own in this as you do need support. We can give each other a shoulder to cry on and I know that the other mums on here are wonderful.

I hope that today you get a bit of relief and I am sorry I can't give you advice but am feeling my way in this just like you atm.
I know how desperate you feel - I am there as well - but we will get through this .

Please be gentle with her 21again.

It's very food and weight focussed and that would drive me to hide things. There are ways of making it appear as if you have eaten or are eating.

Hi 21again, it is interesting to hear your strategy, and I hope your DD manages to maintain her weight. Can I ask, is she the type to be worried about her weight? Both us and my DD's school are surprised that she is like this as she is so unvain and not worried about her appearance.

I am talking to her dad and he is keen to work together on this. It's very difficult because we split up because he is controlling, so there are a whole other set of issues (different thread!) with him and me and to be honest the DC's are a lot more relaxed now we are apart. My DD told the GP she wasn't upset anymore about us being apart although she obviously was in the beginning.

I'm sure it all has a part to play though and at the moment we are talking a lot about what to do. I used this moment to try and calm down the meals the dc's have over with him. He is terrible at mealtimes, he constantly harrasses them with manners, elbows, knives and forks, etc so they are not much fun. I have said very firmly that the websites say mealtimes must be fun... and no nagging. Hopefully that will have an impact as he is open to suggestions at present.

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to develop into a relationships thread, its just an added stress I suppose! I'm hoping that CAMHs will give her an outlet from all of this to say what she wants.

I usually feel like I need a visit to camhs myself and I'm 42. God knows how she is feeling, poor mite.

I have been given some advice about adding hidden calories to meals you prepare, such as ground almonds, cream in mashed potatoes etc. Apparently, if you are too hungry it exacerbates your altered thought processes so just by keeping your calorie intake up, it helps with frame of mind etc (as you have seen in your dd) The rest of us will all end up the size of a house!

She has popped in today as she always does, and again it was food obsessed. She is going with her dad and uncle and aunt etc for a walk and then they suggested mcdonalds. She is panic struck, so I suggested she had a salad there ( I think they are supposed to have almost as many calories as the burgers with the dressing added.) I hope she is ok, difficult to know whether to change plans because of her or run with it.

Good luck to you too, it would be great to hear how you get on and share the progress.

Thanks MerlinsBeard, I understand what you are saying. I can see that my post did sound quite harsh and we are trying to be kind but firm. DD has eaten a roast lunch with the family and has gone to the fruit bowl and taken an apple upstairs. The apple is something we agreed she would do on her own and I took some laundry into her bedroom a short while ago and she was watching a dvd and eating.

Just a week ago this would have been impossible, she was miserable, unresponsive and picking at every piece of food we gave her. If she had had her own way she would have lived on an apple for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch ( a small one at that) and very little in the evening.

We are not piling the plate up for her but are insisting that she eats what is on the plate. I am putting plenty of butter into mashed potatoes etc, and can definitely see a lift in her mood since she has started eating more. I understand that the two are linked. My friend who has gone through this with her own daughter stated that the whole family did put on weight but it was a small price to pay!!

I am not saying this is easy because it isn't, and I have had many sleepless nights recently. I know that this method will not work for everyone but at the moment DD has moved on hugely since this time last week. Maybe we are nipping this in the bud, but then again I am not being complacent at all, just saying what we are doing.

In answer to you question Posistive - DD is 14 and has never worried about her weight at all to my knowledge. She was always very thin when younger but had filled out a bit over the past year. Maybe that had caused some issues with her as it was not something she was used to seeing. Everyone who saw her on New Year's Eve this year said how stunning she looked - and she did - so it is hard to understand. DD did have some friendship issues earlier this year and I feel sure that that had something to do with all this. She was feeling worried and anxious and lost her appetite at that time.

I hope your DD has a good time today. How is her mood generally - is she always down or do you see some spark and laughter from her at times?

She is quite happy really, I wonder if she is relieved it's out in the open.

I haven't seen her much today but she'll be back later, she has texted me to ask whats for tea, we agreed we would tell her hours before, so she can 'get her head round it'.

She always struggles to fit in in school, she is quite geeky and therefore is quite often on the outside. The girls in her year are lovely though, and she doesn't complain that they are unkind, she just doesn't naturally fit in.

Therefore, her not developing she felt exacerbated this.

However, generally, she is quite happy. She is more clingy at the moment, she said she was feeling quite scared of it. I feel she is following me around more, and wanting to talk endlessly about food.

I'm trying to be patient and calm..! Not easy with three others all needing attention too.

Hope your week starts off well and her improvement continues. Maybe she is feeling relieved too?

i really want to post, but just dont feel able to go in to detail today as i'm feeling quite fragile, so appoligies if this doesnt make alot of sence.

adding things in to her food is a good idea, to keep up the callories but she must not know

she may start adding things in her her own food like i did when i found out this is what my mum was doing. for example my mum would make coliflower cheese and add in cream etc so i would put in salt and lots of it this detered me from eating it and if i did cave in and eat it, i would undoubtedly throw up.

lack of concentration and slipping grade do have alot to do with her lack of eating, and also the puberty thing makes perfect sence in my head. it really doesnt seem like twisted logic, because that is an excuse i used.

i also want to assure you that things do get better i am now 22 married and pregnant. i still have issues with food and quite often will leave half a portion on my plate to show i still have self controll, although i have now lernt to eat half a portion of something else (so i end up having 2 half meals instead of 1)

this next bit i'm not trying ot blame you but just say what happend to me.

my mum had weight issues, for most of my childhood she was over weight, i wouldnt have said she was but she always told me she was and she was always dieting. we couldnt ask for chrisps or buscuits or other snack food as that upset mum, because she was on a constant diet.

i believe that this has something to do with my issues (not all of it htere were other drastic things going on in my life) but my mum had control by dieting and i needed to gain control of everything.

i'm sorry i hope you understand what i'm trying to say, sorry i cant explain myself better. i wasnt going to post, but it really struck a cord with me.

Thanks for your post addicted and congratulations on your pregnancy!

It is interesting what you say about your mum. I am not overweight and never diet really. I have issues though never really a problem about eating far too much chocolate sometimes bordering on bingeing. This led me several years ago to not eating chocolate for two years and losing over a stone as a consequence! Shows how much I was eating. So she would have watched this from the sidelines and she sees me occasionally eating far too much now and it being slightly out of control.

I think she may find this disgusts her, she says watching her 11 yr old brother with huge appetite eating makes her feel sick. Maybe she sees my slight lack of control and it makes her reinforce her complete control?

Thank you so much addicted, it is so helpful to hear from you and I hope you can talk to us some more. I am so pleased that your life has turned around and I wish you well. When is the baby due?

I have never been overweight and neither have my two DDs. DH was a skinny teenager but is bigger now, although not at all overweight either so dieting has never been part of our life, although we do try to eat healthily. I have never had to try to lose weight in fact it is the opposite with me and I struggle to put it on after an illness.
Who knows what the triggers are? One thing for sure, I never ever thought this would be an issue for us - it just shows - you don't know what's around the corner.

I've just replied in the general health section - should have read both first, but anyway, I hopw you don't mind me joining here too.

IMHO I don't think you should try and secretly add calories to her food. She will almost certainly work it out, and if/when she does will be extremely upset and lose trust in you. You don't want her trying to deceive you, hiding food, lying etc.

Hi onlinebookworm, thank you for your help.

There was no way I was going to be able to add any extra calories yesterday, she followed me around the whole time I cooked watching everything.

I felt last night slightly overwhelmed, she is always hovering, always on my shoulder and it feels quite oppressive. I must really try and be totally free in the evenings I think when she is here to give her loads of time.

Anyway, this morning didn't go well really. She came downstairs in floods of tears because she had overslept (for her, normal for the rest of us) She was distraught because she was out of her schedule, and didn't go to sleep last night to her schedule either. I afraid I got a bit annoyed. I've tried to tell her that at 13 1/2 going to bed at 9 is too early and her body just isn't ready for sleep but she won't hear it.

Also, she's angry with her friends at school because they annoy her. I think it's because they aren't following her rules either. I asked her not to alienate them but she didn't seem bothered, just shrugged. She says she doesn't mind being on her own, as long as they aren't annoying her. I don't actually believe her, I think she really cares.

More and more I think she's struggling trying to find some control somewhere. I have encouraged her to invite some friends over for a sleepover this weekend to try and lighten things a bit.

i used to meal plan for the family and that made me happy about eating it, because its what i expected, i knew it was coming. I also did the weekly shop for my mum budgeted and bought healthy ingredients.