Should I get vaccines done without his knowledge?

[Anon778833]

My dd was born just before lockdown. Her dad is an anti vaxxer in the extreme sense. He thinks that vaccines are designed to reduce the world population 🙄

I think dd should have her vaccinations. She's now 20 months old. We don't live together so I could get it done without him knowing.

My questions are;

How to avoid lumps at the site of the injection? If he see this when she's with him there is a chance he wouldn't bring her home to me after contact.

Will the GP do them this late?

If you're going to make nasty comments about why I've allowed him to do this then please scroll on by... I'm autistic, easily manipulated and he is a very controlling person. He phoned up Sky and got them to uninstall our Sky Q because he says it causes brain cancer and it's now going to cost me £100 to get it back.

[quote Pipsquiggle]@FabulousIAm - really?
Can you absolutely guarantee that as fact or is it just what happened in your situation?

Please can you clarify as it seems to be at odds with all the other posts.

I cannot believe the courts would compromise the health and safety of an infant just because 1 parent refuses to take on board medical research that has literally saved millions and millions of lives around the world[/quote]
Logically you're right but the law - which another poster has quoted - is very clear on this issue.

I absolutely would. Do it the day after he's had her then there's a week for any lump to go down.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

You need legal advice.

It’s not going to be a one off, you will have many more battles like this in the future, so it’s best to have it sorted out by the courts.

This. Unfortunately the initial vaccination issue is likely to be only the first of several issues over which you and your ex are likely to disagree. I think you'd be better off looking at all the potential areas of disagreement (schooling is likely to be another by the sound of it) and get legal advice around obtaining a court order to cover all the issues.

I didn’t want my dc vaccinated and my dh did. For years I said no and he said yes.

In the end we compromised and vaccinated with one vaccine at a time over a longer time period till they were nearly fully vaccinated (there were two I didn’t agree to but then others we did have that are not routine) it was quite complicated but we got there with the support of our gp they even arranged one specific vaccine to be done at the hospital just in case there was a reaction

You have nothing in writing from him about this? Then there's no evidence that he's forbidden you to get them done.

I'd be tempted to get them done and say nothing to him. If he ever finds out he won't be able to prove you've done anything wrong. If it ever came to court he'd look ridiculous and you could say you had no idea that you needed his permission because you were just following GP's/ Health Visitor's advice.

He'd say: You had her vaxed without my permission. How dare you?
You'd say: I was following medical advice. The doctor didn't ask me about you so I gave my permission in her best interests.
He'd say: I've always made it clear you mustn't do this.
You'd say: Oh dear, I don't remember you ever saying that/ thought you'd changed your mind/ you didn't make it clear enough/ I thought you were joking. Let's agree these things legally in writing from now on.

Good luck

Every baby is different with marks - after my babies first lot he didn't have a mark on him, he had his second ones (12 week) 2 weeks ago and he still has a little bruise on his thigh where it went in, it was red and swollen for a few days after too. It's not something I'd have noticed if I didn't know he'd had it done but as you say your ex inspects him for marks, he would notice it.

They may be fine and not have any marks but I think you need to be prepared that they also might, what will happen if he sees them?
Also, I don't think you'd be able to get them all done in one day as a few of them need a second dose a few weeks later, so it wouldn't just be a case of getting them all done in one day and that's it done.

I think it would help you to have a court order in place for custody, it wouldn't help with the vaccine situation but it would mean if he found out and tried to keep your child he wouldn't be able to as it's already been through the courts so you could contact the police without it taking so long to get them back

@FabulousIAm

You need both parents consent to get your child vaccinated. I have been in the same situation and would have to go back to court to get my child vaccinated. You cant just do it without the NRP permission.

Really? I took my children for most of their jabs and was never asked about their dad's opinion. Same when he took them - he was never asked if I had consented.

My oh is an antivaxxer. Still, he left it up to le to ge the kids vaxxed because I'm their mother and would be the one caring for them if they got ill.
Get them vaccinated and if he is so irrational about vaccines, he doesn't deserve to know. don't tell him

Link to the NHS guidance on this (with examples) had been posted a couple of pages back. If the GP is aware one parent objects, they must seek that parents consent and not proceed. If there is no record of objection they can proceed with one parent’s consent but then OP will need to deal with the fallout if he finds out.

You don't need his permission to do it. I've just signed the forms for the kids to have their annual flu vaccine (against OHs wishes). Like another poster said in a very good point, your responsibility is to your child, not to him.

@MiddlesexGirl @FabulousIAm
Blimey, I had no idea on this law. Cannot believe it is in place, particularly as the UK had it's 'measles free' status taken away by the WHO in 2019.

In this situation, 'the law is an ass!'

The day he returns her from contact, I’d get her vaccinated. There will be no trace by the time that he sees her again.

It’s not a law, it’s guidance. It’s a “should” not a “must”. But in OP’s case where she is dealing with someone who a) presents with some unstable behaviours and b) who has sole custody of her child one night a week, it’s not a risk I would take without legal advice unless I was very certain there would be no repercussions.

You need to remember that as the child's dad he will have access to all your child's medical records. He has the same rights to all medical decisions as you, and he can ask for all medical correspondence to be sent to him also. If your GP gives vaccinations without his permission, they can also be in hot water if somewhere it is documented that he has opposing views to vaccines and medical treatments an they ignore it. If he finds out at a later date that you have pursued medical treatment for the child against his wishes it will be even more difficult in the future. The best thing to do is to get his views i writing via an email and then use this as part of your application for a specific issue order. In this state that you want your child to have the childhood vaccines and that your ex refuses. When making the application it costs just over £200 or you may qualify for this fee to be waived (it takes a little digging to find the right code but its on the Government website - www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees ) You need to make it clear that you want your child to have the vaccinations as, if anything happens in the future regarding court, you may look like an irresponsible parent for not even attempting to get the vaccines. Of course, parents dont need to get their kids vaccinated, but being in Family court is an entirely different kettle of fish where every decision can be scrutinised. In summary: put it in writing in an email that you want the vaccinations for your child and ask him if he agrees and if not, why not. You will then have his reply. If he is one of those that thinks technology is out to get him then put it in a letter and ask him to put it in writing.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

Link to the NHS guidance on this (with examples) had been posted a couple of pages back. If the GP is aware one parent objects, they must seek that parents consent and not proceed. If there is no record of objection they can proceed with one parent’s consent but then OP will need to deal with the fallout if he finds out.

The GP won't know about his objections though I guess.

Childhood vaccinations are standard medical practice. I don't understand why you'd need both parents to agree, any more than you would to prescribe antibiotics for tonsillitis.

Get the vaccinations done with your regular GP, aim for the morning after he has her overnight to allow the most healing time. Don't bring it up unless he asks, in which case 'it's done now, I thought it was best for her'

And if he says he will take her off you rather than let you give her standard medical care, that's when you refuse to provide access - especially if you can record any threats.

I know it's easier said than done, but you and DD can't be hostages to his batshit for the next 17 years

Depends - if there’s a record of him refusing vaccines for himself (covid?) then they may query whether he consents for the child. I imagine in 99% of cases nobody would ask and the jabs would go ahead, but the fallout of this for OP and her child worries me. He is already checking the child for marks which is troubling (and invasive) in itself.

If there is nothing in writing to show his objection to vaccination surely it would be your word against his if it came to court. You need legal advice though to keep your daughter safe because your ex seems to be very mentally ill.

I stand corrected on the law, but if there's no record of him rejecting vaccination then go for it.

If his reasons are qanon, it's in your interests to get him on record in court - you might be able to get his parental rights removed.

Sorry, parental responsibility not rights

There’s some case law here for reference - www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWFC/HCJ/2018/56.html - which also refers to some other cases.

In all cases the court ruled the child should be immunised. But legally speaking it is for the court to arbitrate where there is a difference of opinion between parents, not for OP to decide. In practical terms she could probably very easily get her DD jabbed but as I said, I think that is setting her up for a showdown with her ex over every future decision about the child once he finds out.

OP you need to seek legal advice.

It’s all very well for people to say “the courts won’t do x or y,” but the reality is that no-one knows whether that is the case. It’s a bit like the situations where people post that airports etc never ask for written to consent to take a child out of the country without their other parent, when there is clear evidence, and posters here who will confirm that this does happen.

From an emotional point of view I would absolutely get her vaccinated. But from a legal point of view, if there is ever any chance he objects then they will not vaccinate her against his wishes. And this isn’t just going to go for now. The MMR is just the first, she will need a booster shot, plus the teenage vaccines, etc.

Hopefully from a legal perspective this really won’t be a problem, but you need professional opinion/advice to be sure about this.

The GP/nurse won't ask if there are any objections but once they are informed then they legally cannot give the vaccine so as long as OP doesn't say anything and there's nothing on the child's medical records stating the fathers objections then their won't be an issue.

there won’t be an issue

…for the GP/nurse. Potentially a huge issue for OP when he finds out.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits no that's true sorry I should have been clearer that it won't be an issue getting them done - obviously there could be repercussions for the OP, but then there could be repercussions if she doesn't get her daughter vaccinated too...like measles.