Will history write we have failed children over this time?

[Bewareofisms]

I have just read a BBC article stating that 6 healthy children (in the UK) have died from Covid over the course of the pandemic. Six. We have closed schools and imposed all these "bubble" rules for this, the impact on children's mental health will remain to be seen.
I have an acquaintance working with social services that has personally been involved in dealing with children that have lost their lives from abuse over this period. She, one person, has personally been involved in many more than 6 cases over this time. She hasn't stopped. Vulnerable children have been "lost" due to school closures. The impact of that will far outweigh the deaths from Covid. I wonder if they will ever release the true figures here...

In 100 years time will it be written that we utterly failed children over this pandemic? 😞

People who are not able to look after their children and have social services involved. Or just people outside the demographic that use social media. Perhaps those with limited internet access.

Fair comment, I get that. Where I live, most of those children have been identified and have been in school throughout, although I'm sure there will be some who have slipped through the net and really will have have missed out.
I was talking in general about the two camps of parents - those who tell their children constantly that their lives have been ruined, so children will believe their lives have been ruined; and those who say life's tough mate, let's get on with it and turn it into a positive. I am in no way denying how hard it must have been to juggle homeschool and working, just that some parents will paint it differently to their kids and the children's experience/memory of this time will differ accordingly.

I think introducing better mitigation measures would have allowed schools to stay open longer and to more children

The infection rate in schools was incredibly high before Christmas.

It's now going massively up again and parents are again starting to take their kids out because it's not safe. Obviously there are planned school closures in a couple of weeks but there are concerns about what will happen in September.

@RockingMyFiftiesNot

People who are not able to look after their children and have social services involved. Or just people outside the demographic that use social media. Perhaps those with limited internet access.

Fair comment, I get that. Where I live, most of those children have been identified and have been in school throughout, although I'm sure there will be some who have slipped through the net and really will have have missed out.
I was talking in general about the two camps of parents - those who tell their children constantly that their lives have been ruined, so children will believe their lives have been ruined; and those who say life's tough mate, let's get on with it and turn it into a positive. I am in no way denying how hard it must have been to juggle homeschool and working, just that some parents will paint it differently to their kids and the children's experience/memory of this time will differ accordingly.

I don’t agree with these two camps because I haven’t ever said to my dc their lives have been ruined. Il

It doesn’t mean I don’t think that some have and it’s incredibly sad, and I’m not fine with lots of it,

@Sirzy

1) schools would have struggled for staff. -Children who live with vulnerable adults would have been left in an awful position.

• Staff who are vulnerable or live with someone vulnerable would have been stuck
• CEV children would have been even further isolated and left behind.

2. no. It may well have reduced the amount of time they needed to close for but it wouldn’t have negated all the risk factors

You do know schools stayed open the whole time? Teachers worked. Why could a common sense approach not be applied if needed to individual cases?

When I was in school and a child in the class had a parent undergoing cancer treatment (making them very vulnerable to infections) we were all extra hygienic, kept that child away from anyone that may be ill, informed the family if there were any bugs going round etc. Sometimes the child stayed at home - it was done on a case by case basis.

I know a child killed in a car accident. Do I think it's devastatingly tragic - of course! Do their parents want all cars to be banned - no. I don't really understand why you would say that comment.

I am sorry if you have had a loss.

How is this the same as a car crash? There's benefits to cars, there's reasons we use them.

What benefits does covid bring? What's the positive side of covid?

And I didn't say I had a loss. Let's not pretend you are sorry. I asked how you would feel if your child's death was being used a debating point? How would your friends feel that you used their child's death As proof that something different should have been done due to covid. Its not even related.

Ok - since a couple of people seem to want me to have an answer

I suspect you think you are one of these really intellectual people who think they can drive debate, manipulate people into giving you and answer without you having to give your opinion. Like a team manager who has been on a coaching course

Because YOU still haven't given an answer. Just asked more questions.

@RockingMyFiftiesNot

People who are not able to look after their children and have social services involved. Or just people outside the demographic that use social media. Perhaps those with limited internet access.

Fair comment, I get that. Where I live, most of those children have been identified and have been in school throughout, although I'm sure there will be some who have slipped through the net and really will have have missed out.
I was talking in general about the two camps of parents - those who tell their children constantly that their lives have been ruined, so children will believe their lives have been ruined; and those who say life's tough mate, let's get on with it and turn it into a positive. I am in no way denying how hard it must have been to juggle homeschool and working, just that some parents will paint it differently to their kids and the children's experience/memory of this time will differ accordingly.

I understand what you mean now. Children will take on their parent's attitude to the situation - especially as they haven't been around others over this time to get different views.

Everything can be turned into a learning exercise for children if you look hard enough 👍

Schools stayed open but staff who where vulnerable where off. Pupils who where vulnerable or who had vulnerable family members where off.

The staff that did work worked on a rota and had a tiny proportion of children in. Children who were in could distance etc because it was such a small group.

What was offered by schools was nothing at all like how schools normally operate. It’s simply not comparable

Again you can be positive and come out ok and see that many don’t.

I find that whole argument and bit forced into false divisions and glib.

@Romanoff

I know a child killed in a car accident. Do I think it's devastatingly tragic - of course! Do their parents want all cars to be banned - no. I don't really understand why you would say that comment.

I am sorry if you have had a loss.

How is this the same as a car crash? There's benefits to cars, there's reasons we use them.

What benefits does covid bring? What's the positive side of covid?

And I didn't say I had a loss. Let's not pretend you are sorry. I asked how you would feel if your child's death was being used a debating point? How would your friends feel that you used their child's death As proof that something different should have been done due to covid. Its not even related.

Ok - since a couple of people seem to want me to have an answer

I suspect you think you are one of these really intellectual people who think they can drive debate, manipulate people into giving you and answer without you having to give your opinion. Like a team manager who has been on a coaching course

Because YOU still haven't given an answer. Just asked more questions.

Nature is nature. There have been pandemics approximately every 100 years if you look at recorded history. Humans cannot control nature. Let's wait to see the damage we have caused to the planet with all these disposable masks in a few years time. Plastic bottles will be the top of the iceberg.

I think you're awful saying someone is pretending to be sympathetic. You're angry about something but I really don't think it's me.

@noblegiraffe

Children were being failed before this pandemic - children in abusive homes ignored due to underfunding of social services. Children 'lost' to education and no follow-up. Children in truly inadequate schools without qualified teachers. Children with severe mental health issues unable to access support.

Don't think the problems will be solved by the pandemic and restrictions ending.

Donate to children's charities. Write to your MP about the totally inadequate catch-up funding. Sign Young Minds' campaign for funding for local mental health support hubs for children.
youngminds.org.uk/get-involved/campaign-with-us/fund-the-hubs/
Don't vote conservative.

Yes, this. Absolutely this!

@Bewareofisms how I love an OP who keeps an open mind! Thank you

I think you're awful saying someone is pretending to be sympathetic. You're angry about something but I really don't think it's me.

I am not angry. And you are pretending.

I asked how you would feel if your child died and someone used to it to create a pointless debate, saying their death wasn't enough to justify lockdown.

And you didn't answer. You responded with 'I am sorry if you had a loss'. Its not relevant to the question I asked, at all. Ots a deflection to avoid answering. Therefore, it's not sincere.

[quote RockingMyFiftiesNot]@Bewareofisms how I love an OP who keeps an open mind! Thank you [/quote]
If you're being serious then thank you 😉

The dismissal of the children who died who were not 'healthy' has made me pretty angry, OP. Why did you not include their deaths in your OP?

@Bewareofisms

Ok - since a couple of people seem to want me to have an answer.

1. What do you think would have happened if schools remained open to all that didn't happen anyway? (I obviously mean not to clinically vulnerable children.)

2. Do you think that closing the borders, closing large hospitality venues (stadiums, not little restaurants) straight away, stopping travel within the UK unless local/essential would have allowed schools to stay open?

school staff, parents and even more public transport staff will have died.

no.

Children can test positive and most are a symptomatic. I have read findings that show that people with no symptoms (not people that are about to become ill, people that never get ill) are unlikely to pass it on. These findings are quietened down (which makes me take more notice).

I work in a school. I caught Covid at school. I know it was at school because I had been nowhere else and seen no one else.
No one at school had symptoms. 13 adults and 23 children got Covid at the same time. Amazing if you can’t catch it from someone without symptoms.

@noblegiraffe

The dismissal of the children who died who were not 'healthy' has made me pretty angry, OP. Why did you not include their deaths in your OP?

I don't understand? I haven't dismissed anyone. My original post gave the number of children with no underlying conditions as written in the BBC article I attached.

I'd love to hear some ideas of how the school situation could have been managed differently. I was hoping I'd get some here - I certainly didn't come pretending to have answers.

@EastWestWhosBest

Children can test positive and most are a symptomatic. I have read findings that show that people with no symptoms (not people that are about to become ill, people that never get ill) are unlikely to pass it on. These findings are quietened down (which makes me take more notice).

I work in a school. I caught Covid at school. I know it was at school because I had been nowhere else and seen no one else.
No one at school had symptoms. 13 adults and 23 children got Covid at the same time. Amazing if you can’t catch it from someone without symptoms.

Did none of those people develop any symptoms?

My original post gave the number of children with no underlying conditions as written in the BBC article I attached.

Indeed. All these restrictions and only six healthy children died.

Why did you not use the number of children who died? Given that your premise is that children have been failed, why are you not including all children in your death toll?

Do the others literally not count somehow?

Yes children have been sacrificed to save the elderly.

They vote.

@Bewareofisms I really was being serious. Easy to become so cynical on MN that even a compliment sounds sarcastic. I honestly meant it!

Yes children have been sacrificed to save the elderly.

Get a grip

We were saving the nhs not the elderly.

No one was ‘sacrificed’

They closed schools so the kids didn't make their parents and grandchildren fill underfunded hospital last and get sick /die.

Politicians of all parties fail kids regularly- just look at the lack of catch up investment in schools compared to other countries.

Hopefully the JCVI will at least often vaccines to CEV children so that they can get back to "normal" with the rest of society.