Will history write we have failed children over this time?

[Bewareofisms]

I have just read a BBC article stating that 6 healthy children (in the UK) have died from Covid over the course of the pandemic. Six. We have closed schools and imposed all these "bubble" rules for this, the impact on children's mental health will remain to be seen.
I have an acquaintance working with social services that has personally been involved in dealing with children that have lost their lives from abuse over this period. She, one person, has personally been involved in many more than 6 cases over this time. She hasn't stopped. Vulnerable children have been "lost" due to school closures. The impact of that will far outweigh the deaths from Covid. I wonder if they will ever release the true figures here...

In 100 years time will it be written that we utterly failed children over this pandemic? 😞

They will not be solved, of course not. But do you not think things were made even worse over this time by the government actions more so than the virus itself?

Your are missing the point. On purpose I suspect.

Children were already being failed before. This became more obvious because of lockdown.

Had the children not consistently being failed for many years easing up to lockdown, then the impact would be less.

At the beginning of lockdown, people were talking about kids whose only breaks from abusive households were school. So those kids could go in. Those kids were known and had been left in these awful situations for a long time.

School should never be the only respite from an abusive household, for a child. If it is, that child shouldn't have been living in that house

But I have also read that the evidence showing that children pass it on is debatable to say the least...

This was suspicious when they were lying about it last year. Now everyone knows it’s bollocks. Why is it spreading through schools so fast if kids don’t pass it on?

@MrsTerryPratchett

Comparing healthy children in the UK (massively cutting the data set, what about unhealthy children, they don't mater?) and then comparing to a set of abused children which existing medical before COVID and will exist after, shows you don't understand relative risk.

There is sometimes not a right answer.

Of course unhealthy children matter! They should of course have been shielded as much as possible over this time.

Look at the numbers

@Iknowtheanswer

I think that their mental health is screwed. Every conversation I have with my friends at the moment is about a child's mental health.

Yesterday it was a friend whose child has been diagnosed with tourettes (consultant said cases have rocketed, definitely following the pattern of lockdowns).

Today a friend called me about her depressed 12 year old.

I'm feeling numb now, and I'm a relatively competent 50 year old. Imagine trying to navigate teenage years in these circumstances.

So, yes, I think history will say we have failed children and also the elderly... another story.

☹️

They will not be solved, of course not. But do you not think things were made even worse over this time by the government actions more so than the virus itself?

Well of course I think the government have been woefully incompetent. Their refusal to tell kids in exam years how they would be graded till the last minute, that they had no plans for exam cancellations, that they mismanaged the situation in schools by having no mitigation measures so that covid ran riot which was incredibly stressful for everyone involved.

I don't think that's the answer you are looking for though.

Let's stop believing the narrative painted of children as these "super spreaders". Think about the fact that this picture must be painted to justify the actions taken. Now think about the whole thing again...

Wtf?

What is your solution? Should the government have let school remain open? Is that what you think?

Now think about the whole thing again..

But not all children are asymptomatic and if schools had been opened the number of symptomatic children would have been much higher. Children are also affected by family members dying because they brought covid home from school.

Schools also have Staff. School closures also protected thousands of adults. Many of these would be vulnerable esp to covid.

Some children are vulnerable - how many of those children still died despite schools closing? And many of those kids are in standard state schools.

Should the government have let school remain open? Is that what you think?

I suspect that's exactly what the OP thinks.

@CrouchEndTiger12

But I have also read that the evidence showing that children pass it on is debatable to say the least...

My nephew brought it home to my sister.

Sorry - I wasn't clear. I didn't mean they can't ever. I meant I think they have been painted in the media as these "super spreaders" that is not the case.

If you don't mind me asking - how do you know for sure your nephew gave it to your sister? I hope she has recovered ok 💐

Deaths of children are not the only deaths that affect children.

Of course not. Who would say / think that?!?

Well then why give the low death rate of children as evidence that we have failed them? It is impossible to weigh up the consequences of the measures we took against what would have happened if we hadn't taken them.

*Children can test positive and most are a symptomatic. I have read findings that show that people with no symptoms (not people that are about to become ill, people that never get ill) are unlikely to pass it on. These findings are quietened down (which makes me take more notice).

Let's stop believing the narrative painted of children as these "super spreaders". Think about the fact that this picture must be painted to justify the actions taken. Now think about the whole thing again...*

Love posts like this - claiming to be one of the few able to see through the "narrative". If only the "sheeple" were as free-thinking and perceptive as you hey, OP?

@Sirzy

So what was your solution?

Remembering at the point the decision was made little was known about the infection other than it spread rapidly and it killed lots.

Given some children are clinically vulnerable or clinically extremely vulnerable.

Given schools have adults as staff and they may be at risk.

Given young people may live with high risk adults.

Without any benefit of hindsight what would you have done?

I am not for one minute pretending to know the answers. Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course. But do you not wonder why there is no media uproar of child abuse cases going through the roof over this time? Why no numbers here?

I am thinking how much of what has been fed to us in mainstream media will with the passing of time turn out to be bollocks.

I think more people should just think and not "know".

Sorry - I wasn't clear. I didn't mean they can't ever. I meant I think they have been painted in the media as these "super spreaders" that is not the case.

They weren't classed as super spreaders because anyone thought they just magically were more contagious.

Let's stop believing the narrative painted of children as these "super spreaders". Think about the fact that this picture must be painted to justify the actions taken. Now think about the whole thing again...

Ha ha ha!!!!😂😂😂😂that’s great that is!

Of course they’re bloody superspreaders. Have you looked at the rates in schools lately?

So if there's no magical answer, how can anyone say they were failed

So say they were failed they has to have been a solution that wasn't taken.

So you can offer no alternative but your happy to slag of what is said.

Sadly we can’t have numbers of child abuse because so much goes on behind closed doors. At best we will get best guesses. This isn’t anything new though

I haven't seen an issue with ds or his friends. They chat over minecraft, they cycle together (no-one sane gets closer than 2m when ds is on his bike,) He had a full teaching schedule of zoom lessons.

So for him and his class, they seem unbothered by covid. They haven't had to isolate. Apart from moaning about masks in corridors, they seem to be ok.

So no, we haven't failed them. His cohort are year 8. Maybe it's his age, no hormones yet.

Of course they’re bloody superspreaders

I don't think it's so much that they're superspreaders, more that they are the only section of the population who have been allowed to congregate in large groups with no masks and no social distancing; conditions that naturally lend themselves to covid spread.

I fully expect to be shot down for this, and will say upfront that our children are adults so from an educational point of view, they have not been affected. So expect most people will say I don't have a right to comment.

But I have observed two very different camps (via MN, FB and other social media, and my own contacts).

Camp 1: our children's lives are ruined; they have missed out on so much: their lives will never be the same again; the government has failed them

And
Camp 2: yes it's shit for you kids, and you've missed a few things that are a right of passage, and that is really sad . But you have learnt some new skills that you wouldn't have done, had more time at home with your parents (who have realised that work doesn't have to come first, sometimes it is ok to take time out to be with your kids). Everyone's in the same boat, we will help you catch up and you will come out of this just fine.

Or is that just me?

@Romanoff

They will not be solved, of course not. But do you not think things were made even worse over this time by the government actions more so than the virus itself?

Your are missing the point. On purpose I suspect.

Children were already being failed before. This became more obvious because of lockdown.

Had the children not consistently being failed for many years easing up to lockdown, then the impact would be less.

At the beginning of lockdown, people were talking about kids whose only breaks from abusive households were school. So those kids could go in. Those kids were known and had been left in these awful situations for a long time.

School should never be the only respite from an abusive household, for a child. If it is, that child shouldn't have been living in that house

I am not "missing any point on purpose"

I agree with what you are saying. But unfortunately the ideal is not how life is. I have seen this first hand. It is easy to say that children should not be in the home if school is their only rest bite, but I'm afraid some are. That is reality. I

Do I think it is right? No. I have personally lost sleep over situations when I worked with children. But I do see the unfortunate reality.

Happen to listen - promise not to miss anything on purpose.

@noblegiraffe

They will not be solved, of course not. But do you not think things were made even worse over this time by the government actions more so than the virus itself?

Well of course I think the government have been woefully incompetent. Their refusal to tell kids in exam years how they would be graded till the last minute, that they had no plans for exam cancellations, that they mismanaged the situation in schools by having no mitigation measures so that covid ran riot which was incredibly stressful for everyone involved.

I don't think that's the answer you are looking for though.

I don't think there is an answer to find

Bewareofisms

Children can test positive and most are a symptomatic. I have read findings that show that people with no symptoms (not people that are about to become ill, people that never get ill) are unlikely to pass it on. These findings are quietened down (which makes me take more notice).

Let's stop believing the narrative painted of children as these "super spreaders". Think about the fact that this picture must be painted to justify the actions taken. Now think about the whole thing again...

I'm sure that as long as you are not writing the history will will get a more balanced view.

@SleepingStandingUp

Now think about the whole thing again..

But not all children are asymptomatic and if schools had been opened the number of symptomatic children would have been much higher. Children are also affected by family members dying because they brought covid home from school.

Schools also have Staff. School closures also protected thousands of adults. Many of these would be vulnerable esp to covid.

Some children are vulnerable - how many of those children still died despite schools closing? And many of those kids are in standard state schools.

15. Taken from the BBC article:

"Around 15 had life-limiting or underlying conditions, including 13 living with complex neuro-disabilities"

Do you think it likely that all these 15 children would have been in mainstream school anyway?

Kids are only in school for 52% of the days of the year. School isn't the solution to abusive households. More funding for social services would be a start.

I really hate that you are using vulnerable kids who have died of covid as some sort of point-making exercise.