8 week old hasn't stopped crying

[SpideyMom]

Hi

I am not sure this is the correct place to post this but I am asking on behalf of a friend.

She gave birth 8 weeks ago and he daughter hasn't stopped crying since. Almost turning purple. Every waking moment aside from feeding she is screaming. She cannot be consoled.

Both parents are showing signs of depression now. All doctors and health visitors etc tell them she is fine. That they can't find any thing wrong. But she cannot be comforted or soothed.

We all thought colic but doctors are adamant it isn't.

We are all really worried now. Can it really be the case that there is nothing wrong? You can hear her screaming up the road and she just gets louder and louder it's so sad for all of them. But if course we would all be absolutely devastated if something was actually wrong.

It's not cheap, would probably be between £2-300 for an initial consultation, but if it was reflux/CMPA he would get her on his NHS list for the future, or at the least onto the list at her most local hospital with a relevant clinic.

Would they consider going back to A&E? A repeat attendance for the same unresolved problem and increasingly stressed parents might well get them referred to paeds to at least be reviewed on that day, for expert eyes and hands on the babe, and then hopefully followed up in the paeds outpatient clinic too.

My dr told me my 2 month old was just fussing like a normal baby, I knew it wasn't normal.... spoke to the HV and they referred me to a dietician. I'd already stopped breastfeeding (expressing and freezing just in case I was wrong) and put him on lactose free formula. Overnight I saw a massive difference. 4 weeks later at the dietitian appointment he said it sounds like a cows milk protein allergy and prescribed the right formula. My boy is sooooooo much better. Tell them not to give up and if they think there's something not right to Stick to their guns and speak to as many drs as they need to.

Thank you for all this amazing advice. I've had a little break though and they've opened up to me.
My friend cried saying how she feels like a bad mom because doctors keeps saying she's fine but she isn't really sure anymore. It's draining them both but they are scared she's in pain now. They are in on Thursday and will sit down and have a thorough talk. I have discussed a different milk. They seem keen to try it.
I have explained I only want to support them so my advice is meant well. They seemed to appreciate it

How is the baby doing with weight gain? Mine was like this and it turned out he had a tongue tie and was basically starving all the time henc the crying. As soon as we’d had it snipped he was a different child and so much easier and happy again.

Apparently she has been checked for tongue tie. I believe her weight is fine and is gaining well. She was born 9.13

Was your little one feeding all the time as well @Katnisnevergreen

Ah well it was worth a try. I sympathise massively with the parents, we had 9 weeks of screaming coupled with no sleep and I genuinely think I was slowly dying

Sorry cross post. Yes feeding almost all the time but losing weight in my case

I keep trying to tell them that they are learning and always will be. I think they are being hard on themselves thinking they should know what is wrong. But sadly it's never that easy.
The battles I have had. The sarcastic comments made that I'm just a worrier. I've fought for referalls and always got answers. My son is nearly 5 and fortunately for the last year has had a much better run with his health. His had it tough at times but I would do it all again and be that pushy mom to get where he is now

I had this baby. Mine went on for a lot longer than 8 weeks (in fact for the best part of a year although it got a lot better when she learned to walk and then talk). We saw GPs, HVs, nurses, paediatricians, dieticians, two different cranial osteopaths, a tongue tie practitioner, a dentist who did laser lip tie correction. Nobody had ever seen a baby scream like this. We tried three different prescription milks, infant gaviscon, ranitidine, omeprazole, different slings, different pushchairs, different everything. I had so many people tilt their head and ask "is she your first baby?". We had no Home Start in this area and I pleaded with the nearest one to help us but as they were in a different county they wouldn't/couldn't. I lost my mind in the end. When my daughter was 8 weeks old I was quite literally wishing she had never been born. Or that I had never been born. So I can absolutely understand how they feel. My heart goes out to them.

Do they have anyone to give them a break? Can you take the baby out for a (long) walk with your earplugs in and give their poor ears a rest? This is what I was desperate for but I had nobody at all to help. You say they ask for help but then think you're interfering - I can tell you that they are not operating at full brain capacity. They won't be able to hear themselves think. They are way beyond exhausted. Please don't take it personally.

They are coming to stay next week for a few days. We live about 2 hours away so unfortunately I can't help them as much as I would like to.
They have asked if they can go to the cinema if I don't mind and I have said they can take as much time out as they need. She will be fine with me.

Did anything end up soothing your little one? For me the hardest thing was hearing them wish she hadn't been born too. And I know they absolutely don't mean it, but they are literally at rock bottom.
Parenting is such a lonely scary thing really. No one has a clue. There is nothing quite like sleep deprivation and coupled with a screaming baby it must be terribly hard.
I know not to take their biting as a personal attack. They are just desperate to get her settled and happy.

Nothing at all helped in our case. We never did get to the bottom of it. She eventually outgrew the screaming and turned into a fairly easy toddler and a really gorgeous-natured child. I'm still not quite over it all and have been left with issues I'm trying to deal with and work through.

@evilharpy I'm so sorry to hear that. Everything you went through as well and and didn't get anywhere. I can't begin to imagine how you must have felt going through it for so long. I am glad your little one has outgrown it but I imagine the scars will always remain.
It's sad really as it takes something that should be the happiest time of your life and makes it the worst.
I hope you are ok

Direct your friend to this reflux website and see if any of the stories fit. www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/infantgastricrefluxstories/summary/

My first DC screamed day and night for about 7 weeks, it was colic/reflex. Had to sleep at an angle, feed at an angle. Even after the 7 weeks was not comfortable on her back. It was better at 4.5 months when she could move onto solid foods. Reflux didn't completely pass until 18 months. No yoghurt or runny food that could pass back up easily!

Second DC was a breeze. It really sounds like digestive discomfort and their DC won't remember later, but a nightmare for them.

I think I've heard of labour sort of squashing them and an osteopath can squish them back? Not sure.

Can you go with them to the gp? If they're exhausted they're probably not in the best shape to advocate for themselves

I was training in paediatrics when my eldest was born. She had obvious reflux yet I kept being fobbed off by the GP and health visitor that it wasn't too bad and I didn't want to go down the route of medicating it. She struggled to gain weight - but because we are a tall family, the fact that not keeping up with the 25th centile was too small for her didn't trigger concerns. With the benefit of hindsight, and a 2.5 yr old by then at 90th centiles for height and at least 75th for weight IIRC, when her brother was born the GP encouraged me that they would support medication if he needed it too ... (he didn't).

+++ to it being terrible for mental health trying to cope with a baby like that. It probably contributed to me losing my career. (years later, I'm finally constructing a rather different one)

Things parents need in this situation - to be believed, to be supported, and to be encouraged and helped to keep asking the professionals. I hope that if they take a video to the GP, and keep going back, they will get a referral soon. At least both parents are on the same page. My mother tried to help me (from overseas), but my husband was always inclined to go along with the professional reassurance she's fine don't worry just keep doing what you're doing line.

Very best wishes and hope they can get into the system soon.

I suspect the reason they want your support but then say they don't is simply because they're in a fog of torture and are miserable. They can't see a solution and they are worried to bother medical professionals who say everything is fine.

To me if a baby is crying that much then everything isn't fine. I'm not a medical professional but I've had 3 babies and have had my fair share of medical issues where I've had to push.

Research is key here. What are the other symptoms. How is weight gain, nappies, skin/rashes/dry/sick? How much does baby eat at each feed?

In the first instance I would be looking at reflux and cmpa (my DD has the latter). I would also as suggested be taking her to a cranial osteopath. You have to pay privately but it can be life changing. After all of that I'd then be going to the GP armed with facts and evidence. As first time parents you often just trust the medical professionals and don't want to be a bother, after all their experience is far superior to your limited experience. However, it's not actually the case. They will know their baby best and they need to trust their instincts. That's what you can do is gently try and encourage them to trust their instincts. Offer emotional support where you can, say you want to help and ask them what they need. I don't believe they don't want your help, I just think they're so stressed and miserable than they don't know what to do and because the professionals say everything is fine they're pushing away those who say there might be something wrong.

Morning

Thank you again for the fantastic advice.

After their previous resistance they have been really grateful with the recommendations and the links which I have sent them.

There is a little battle between them it seems, in that Mom is telling everyone she (herself) is fine but is often found crying in a different room. Because doctors have told her over and over everything is fine, she is just accepting it, whereas Dad isn’t convinced. One wants to do more to get to the bottom of it and the other is like well we have been told so many times she is fine! So it seems they aren’t on the same page afterall ☹

My friends mental health is suffering hugely. She has always lived in this fairytale bubble, she didn’t expect any on this to happen as they wasn’t told about this side in their pregnancy classes. Dad’s mental health is suffering too. It really cannot be easy having to hear it so much. They need support but have found friends dont contact as much and family all live a few hours away.

I’ve never taken their reactions personally. I can see they are hitting a brick wall, They are human and probably think like most, but if they cant get past their Doctor there is very little they can do. I always tell them my advice is coming from having a baby myself and its always better to be pushy when things don’t seem right than accept a doctors opinion just because of their job. They are very hard on themselves for not knowing what they are doing, but come on who does have a clue when it comes to a baby?! Especially when its your first.

As for their baby, weight gain is fine I believe. Nappies are a mixture of constipation or ‘poo-namis’ as they call them. Straight away I suspected milk allergy but its been hard to get them to try it because of them being told ‘she hasn’t got a milk allergy’. Her skin is still very reddened and patchy in parts and also quite dry. I am not sure how normal it is or not, but in the whole time she have never been sick or brought anything back up? She is feeding up to 12 times a day, 6oz each time.

I just want them to believe that making little changes like her milk 'could' make a huge difference so surely its worth them trying?

I want them to love this part of their lives. The are a lovely family, with a beautiful little girl. It is distressing for us all on the outside to see her for that short space of time, so to live with her screams must be torture.

Thank you once again

That's far too much milk. She should be on around 30oz a day, give or take a few in either direction.

I understand why they might overfeed her if she's crying a lot as it gets her to stop, but it will be making things worse. They need to feed less milk and use a much slower flow teat and do paced feeding.

thank you @Celebelly

I have tried the very gently tell them this. I think they feed her so much because its what keeps her quiet. But its also what could be the reason for her excessive crying.

I do get annoyed though abit as they go on about not wanting to waste milk as it costs so much. Unfortunately they will be 'wasting' a lot of money through trial and error when raising a child.

I think it sounds like it could be milk allergy. Rash/dry skin and constipation with explosive nappies are symptoms. There is a Facebook group you could join and ask for advice - it might not be that of course. In our area you can order at chemists without a prescription aptimil pepti 1 (my DD is on this). It costs I believe about £15 for half a tin, so it's expensive but you can get it on prescription. It also takes 3 weeks for dairy to be removed completely from the system, but you can see a difference sometimes within a few days.

They are feeding too much though, which in itself can be a sign of cmpa. It could be trapped wind too. I recall DD1 having horrendous wind and crying a lot - turned out that she needed a good 30 mins of winding after every feed.

It sounds like they're being very hard on themselves. All I can really say is that with the best will in the world, it's impossible to ever know everything about babies. I didn't even spot that my 3rd was incredibly unwell at 4do (had an awful rash but midwives told me it was newborn skin - it wasn't and she was admitted to hospital in the end). All you can do is keep telling them how much there is to learn and that no one ever knows it all.

I think I'm just going to leave them to it. Dad wants to get to the bottom of things and Mom will only go by what the doctor is telling her. So she is refusing to change her milk until the doctor gives their go ahead.

Hopefully they work things out on their own terms

Mine was like this as a baby. We were beside ourselves and I became very depressed.

A cranial osteopath sorted him out. No referral, I just looked one up, begged for the earliest appointment and paid however much it cost. Some babies who aren’t born naturally (e.g. c section of assisted delivery with forceps) can be in a lot of discomfort because the tiny bones in their heads haven’t been through the birth canal as they should have done. We had a noticeable improvement after one session and a big improvement after 3 sessions. He also had reflux and it helped with that too.