Tooth decay in my 5 and 7 year old

[Lucky2badad]

Hi everyone,
So this is my first post ever!
I desperately need some advice as I'm at a loss on what to do next.
My 5 year old recently had 8 teeth pulled out owing to tooth decay. My 7 year old now also has tooth decay on one of his back teeth, I took him in on Thursday just gone to have it sorted.
Unfortunately my 5 year old is now showing signs of further tooth decay in one of his 6 remaining teeth. This will more than likely leave him without the ability to chew his food.
They live with their mum who seems very reluctant to take immediate action when these problems have arisen. I know their grandma still gives them cans of coke, pick and mix and biscuits. She sees them at least twice a week.
From the very start of all of this I have had to take time off work on multiple occasions to take either one of them to the dentist and I live and work 2 hours from them, whilst their mum lives 5 minutes from the dentist.
So, owing to the most recent issue I now find myself questioning what to do next.
Please has anyone any advice or even been in this situation themselves?
Thank you so much.

Thanks zzzzz,
Most of these things I already do. Unfortunately I only see them on a Saturday one week and Friday, Saturday and Sunday the following week, and so on, so my time with them is limited.
In the morning I brush my teeth with them so they can see how to do it and I go over them myself again afterwards just to make sure.
They already have fluoride painted on them and have had for some time.
Brushing them at school is a good idea though, ill contact the school tomorrow.
They never wash their mouths out after brushing either.

They never wash their mouths out after brushing either You're not supposed to, I don't think.

They don’t need to wash their mouth out. Although a mouth wash for gum disease may help.

I completely agree. I also have a daughter with someone else and her teeth are fine.
I Also have in writing from 3 separate dentists that have all seen my 5 year old that it in this case is diet related.
I know they aren't fed the best foods at home and have no idea of the brushing routine there and not sure i'd trust the answer anyway.
I'm like the evil dad lol, no sweets (I wasn't popular this Easter!), no junk food, juice only with dinner and water at all other times,teeth brushing is a big thing as well.
I know this is considered fairly normal these days but watching a completely avoidable situation unfold is very difficult.

If your 5 year old has had 8 teeth pulled then thats probably due to excess sugar/poor brushing not just bad teeth, there are one or two conditions that cause naturally bad teeth however generally everything else is preventable and the dentist would had told you if there was a problem with the enamel, that amount of tooth decay is more than crooked teeth. However if its at their mums theres not always an awful lot you can do, you need her to reduce their sugar intake and brush their teeth for them

Do they use adult toothpaste? The seven year old should definitely be. Do they use an electric toothbrush? They shouldn't wash their mouth out after brushing, don't worry. Basically all you can do is teach them to brush themselves, teach them rules e.g. only water after brushing at night, and make sure they are as looked after as possible at yours.
Why about some disclosing tablets to teach them how to brush well? You should really be brushing both children's teeth but if their mum isn't doing it then you can try and teach them to do it themselves properly.
Sounds like you are doing all the right things, at this stage it's baby teeth but you really don't want it to become their adult teeth.

Why did you take your child to three dentists? Why did you ask the dentists for their best guess in writing about the cause of the tooth problems?

Presumably if they said it was diet then the children showed evidence of adequate brushing and/or flossing?

If the children visited three different dentists, did none of them give any treatment? Bonding? Cleaning? Fillings?

Are you trying to get residential custody of the children?

It is 100% diet. I wanted a few opinions so I took him to my dentist as well as his and also wrote to the dentist that extracted the teeth. As mentioned my 7 year old now also has tooth decay. He does use adult toothpaste yes, at least with me anyway.
My partners mum mentioned the pills that show up the plaque as well, will definitely be getting those for here and at home. I remember those as a kid as well lol.
Other than the odvious concerns like having to purée his food, will he be bullied, will it have had an effect on his adult teeth already etc...... my 7 year old now has decay, but also has a few of his adult teeth.
I can't watch it happening, but don't know what else I can do other than social or something, but really don't want it to get to that as this is considered as neglect.

Mathanxiety, at first I was told by my 5 year olds dentist he would have to have them extracted. I wanted a second opinion from another dentist, so I took him to mine. He runs his own practice and people travel from up north just to see him so trust his opinion completely. He wanted to save them so he began fluoride and filled them. Sadly the fillings kept falling out owing to soft teeth (being baby teeth). Their mum took it upon herself to take him to have them pulled without initially telling me how many he was having extracted. I also wanted to know the opinion of the dentist that extracted the teeth. I wanted to know what was the cause so I could go about finding a solution.
I'm not at present trying for custody, but am strongly considering it but really don't want it to get to that, but fear I may have no choice.
There are other concerns but my main concern is this.

Sorry, he had 8 out and two remaining back teeth are now crowns.

I meant one of the 6 along the top has started to go, should've made that clearer.

So this is a roundabout way of canvassing Mumsnet as to whether the mother is neglectful, and the dentists have provided written statements that you will use in court?

The mother currently has residential custody, and took it upon herself to try to remedy the tooth decay situation. You imply she should not have acted without consulting you. Yet you presumably did not tell her you were bringing the children to three dentists or having the teeth of one of them filled? You don't mention consulting with her about that, and I doubt you told her you were compiling a file of dentist opinions whose topic is basically her parenting choices.

I think I would go to court for custody over this.

I would try and gain custody over this too - a five year old having eight teeth removed? And still being given coke, sweets etc.? This is serious neglect.

In this situation, empower your children. Teach them that it's the frequency of the sweets/juice/biscuits, so if they are offered, to say thank you and save it for straight after meals. Encourage them to snack on non sugar foods such as cheese, cheese strings, ham, veg, chicken, cheese, nuts etc. you may have to send them back with it.
Buy a fluoride mouthwash for them to use after school at home.

Get them a reward chart to record that they've brushed every day and night and give them treats for doing so when you see them on the weekend.

Short of having them for more time/full custody there isn't really much that you haven't done that can be done. Would your children be receptive to refusing sweets? I know it is a big ask from children that age but given that there are two of them perhaps they could make a competition out of who eats the least sweets each week? Another thought may be to try to teach them to brush immediately after sweet foods. Having sweet drinks through straws also helps protect their teeth a bit. So can eating cheese before eating sweet things. Do they feel any pain having sweet things? I would imagine that the five year old at least does. Maybe you could use this to help persuade them not to eat these things. Tell them that the feeling is their teeth rotting. Do they have adequate hygiene products at home? You might consider sending them home with extra toothpaste a tooth brushes just to make sure they have access to what they need.

You cannot give children a fluoride mouthwash to use at home in a situation where you suspect they might not be supervised.

It is dangerous.

Mathanxiety please don't misunderstand the situation. We have had a very good relationship and have done our best for the children's sake to maintain it.
Of course she knew about me taking them to see my dentist, she's their mother and has every right to know. She also had the right to know that yes I had requested in writing the cause of Eli's tooth decay. How I will use that I'm not sure yet as I truly do not want this to become something it doesn't need to be i.e. Court battles. But equally I need to make sure I have bases covered.
I don't know what to do, hence the reason I put this post up and appreciate every opinion I get from other parents on mumsnet.

Sadly that is due to the drinks, coke virtually dissolves baby teeth, all other drinks except water do some degree of damage, far, far more than cakes and biscuits.

Mine only ever had milk and water at home (now 10 and 11) and have never had a tooth out despite some inconsistent brushing, the dentist told me the above re drinks.

I am afraid you will not see this improve until the drink and (to a leeser degree) diet changes dramatically, can you get this in writing from a dentist to give to your Ex wife and GM?

Tbh this amount of tooth decay in a 5 year old is neglect op, and you need to get their mother to understand this. Thats 10 teeth that have decayed.
Did your 5 year old have them out asleep or awake? The actual extraction of the teeth as opposed to filling them isn't neglect, 5 year olds often can't cope with 8 fillings and if she has to have them out asleep they will all have to come out so she doesn't have a repeat in 6 months. However the not taking care of both childrens teeth is neglect on your exs part, I hope you get it sorted op