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Tooth decay in my 5 and 7 year old

93 replies

Lucky2badad · 03/04/2018 19:01

Hi everyone,
So this is my first post ever!
I desperately need some advice as I'm at a loss on what to do next.
My 5 year old recently had 8 teeth pulled out owing to tooth decay. My 7 year old now also has tooth decay on one of his back teeth, I took him in on Thursday just gone to have it sorted.
Unfortunately my 5 year old is now showing signs of further tooth decay in one of his 6 remaining teeth. This will more than likely leave him without the ability to chew his food.
They live with their mum who seems very reluctant to take immediate action when these problems have arisen. I know their grandma still gives them cans of coke, pick and mix and biscuits. She sees them at least twice a week.
From the very start of all of this I have had to take time off work on multiple occasions to take either one of them to the dentist and I live and work 2 hours from them, whilst their mum lives 5 minutes from the dentist.
So, owing to the most recent issue I now find myself questioning what to do next.
Please has anyone any advice or even been in this situation themselves?
Thank you so much.

OP posts:
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mathanxiety · 04/04/2018 08:39

So she knew you took your DC to your dentist. What about the other one and the contact with the one who did the extraction?

Your response to whether she knew you were compiling the file is 'non responsive' - you say she had the right to know but you do not say if you told her.

You also don't say if you consulted with her about the futile effort to fill baby teeth.

There is no reason to be bandying about words like 'neglect' if you and your ex are on good terms. This issue could be approached by means other than stockpiling three dentists' testimonies. You could arrange to sit down and chat, for instance. You could extend to her the benefit of the doubt and assume the teeth are the result of genetic influences. You supply only half of that to your children. Giving the benefit of the doubt, you could also see that the mum has actually gone about the situation after the fillings you commissioned began falling out - predictably, in 'soft' milk teeth. You therefore wouldn't have complained in the OP about her not seeing to things in timely fashion. Did you get the fluoride painted on or did their mum?

The grandmother sees the children twice a week? It would take hours of non-stop Coke drinking and biscuit and pick and mix crunching to affect teeth. Is this what is happening? How are you so sure what goes on in your ex's home or while she has the children?

Lucky2badad · 04/04/2018 09:16

Mathanxiety. So this has been going on since October. of course we spoke about it and as you could appreciate it did get heated. How ever we both went about sorting it after much discussion.
My problem with her having them pulled was not with them being extracted. I was told by her that he was having 4 out which I could just about stomach. After the extraction took place she told me he'd had 6 out. How ever I then spoke with the dentist as I wanted to know what the cause was only to find out from the dentist it was actually 8 and 2 crowns that had been taken. This was all before I had seen him again. I had an issue with the lies.
Our relation got worse but since has repaired, but now we find ourselves back in the same position.
As for the 3 dentist opinions in writing that she knows about, She knows that I'm at the end of my wits with it.
I do my best to speak openly with her, but if I don't get that in return then I have to follow other channels, like speaking with the professionals that have performed the extractions/check ups.
This is a case of neglect but would much rather we spoke and resolved than it going any further. But if I am being lied to and no effort is being made on her and grandmothers part then what am I to do?

OP posts:
zzzzz · 04/04/2018 09:18

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Loyaultemelie · 04/04/2018 10:31

Our now 7 year old lost 4 teeth when she was 3, she fell age 18 months and chipped one and despite the colour changing our then dentist said oh no it's fine this went on for over a year and then the one beside it changed colour too and I started to really kick up and he kept saying it's fine all normal. There were lots of other issues within the practice and I requested a referral to children's dental in the hospital who said the decay from the original had spread from the original to its neighbour and another 2. That dentist was struck off (not just because of us).
Dd2 is now having problems with her back molars not because of lack of brushing or diet I'm quite strict especially after that horror show but because she's had a lot of medical issues and all the medications are syringe and that's where the syringes hit Shock She has to go on the 17th to see if they can fill or remove but as she needs more medication removal seems horribly likely. Also DH has weak enamel and it must be hereditary (why couldn't they take after me!)

zzzzz · 04/04/2018 10:43

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lucky2badad · 04/04/2018 19:31

Hi zzzzz, the decision to pull them was made before they were filled, but my dentist suggested trying to save them first. Of course I didn't want my son having trouble eating or being put through that kind of procedure without exploring every avenue first. Ultimately the decisions of two different health care professionals clashed, one wanted to save the teeth the other felt it best to extract. As I mentioned above my issue was not only with the number of teeth taken out owing to decay but the fact I wasn't consulted throughout the procedure.
Can I ask, are you basing your opinion that it isn't just diet on experience alone or are you in the profession yourself? I understand you are a no sugar family and neither are the boys with me, but I know for a fact that at least at their gm's their diet is pretty bad. What it's like at home now I can't be 100% sure but know it has in the past also been bad.

OP posts:
zzzzz · 04/04/2018 19:34

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mathanxiety · 05/04/2018 04:03

My problem with her having them pulled was not with them being extracted. I was told by her that he was having 4 out which I could just about stomach. After the extraction took place she told me he'd had 6 out. How ever I then spoke with the dentist as I wanted to know what the cause was only to find out from the dentist it was actually 8 and 2 crowns that had been taken. This was all before I had seen him again. I had an issue with the lies.

You must have very little experience of going to the dentist yourself.

Quite often, when a dentist takes a good look and while the patient is numbed, it will become apparent that more work is needed than perhaps originally anticipated. If you want to be consulted on a procedure then you should take the time off work and go to the appointment. Things can happen right there with the patient in the chair that are not anticipated, even with the best X-rays and the best communicated plan of action in the world.

This can even happen during a medical operation. I had my gallbladder removed several years ago, an operation that should have taken about an hour start to finish, but I was in the theatre for three hours because the surgeon found a stone in my bile duct that he decided to push through using laparoscopic instruments. He could have stopped the laparoscopic procedure he had started, opened me right up and done it the old way in less time. He used his professional judgement.

So a predicted 4 teeth out can become 8, or crowns can be put in.

You have clearly managed to alienate and possibly frighten the mother here, with your 'heated' discussion and your use of the term 'neglect' and her knowledge that you have a stockpile of letters to show a court.

Maybe she didn't bank on you following up to check on the children's dental treatment and decided you would be less angry and less likely to threaten taking them from her if she told you it was 6?

Maybe she was flustered and upset and nervous about the dental procedure (some people are) and got mixed up? The charge of 'lying' here is very uncharitable.

You can't threaten people with such a monstrous accusation (neglect) that carries with it such a huge sanction (losing residential custody) and expect them to be open and honest.
The sanction for her in this case is potentially devastating.

Who took the initiative to get the bonding done?

You come across as aggressive and very, very controlling, very much the backseat driver.

And you have suggested very different scenarios to posters here where the relationship with the mother is concerned:
You are on good terms for the sake of the children.
You have had heated discussions.
You have mended the fences.
You are in possession of letters from dentists and are keeping your options open about going to court unless people do things your way.

There is an alternative to the bullying approach you have adopted. But perhaps you don't have the temperament needed to take a more conciliatory tone and adopt a more collaborative approach?

I also have five DCs, and come from a family of three DCs myself.

Of my own five:
Two have had extensive fillings - ten in one case and eleven in another.
The other three have had no fillings.
One who had no fillings had two extractions due to overcrowding, overbite and one tooth growing in completely out of line.
Oldest DC had wisdom teeth out at age 24.
We live in the US in a state where proof of an annual dental exam is required for all children in school, so all five have been to the dentist and to the doctor annually (annual medical also required). If work had been needed it would have been noticed and recommended.

I have also seen in the case of the child with the most fillings that the dentist can decide to do more than anticipated in the one sitting because the next patient had cancelled, and because it was apparent that the DC was very distressed by the numbing procedure. Why put my child through that more often than necessary?

From personal experience, I only know specifically how many fillings my DDs have each because I was presented with the bill afterwards and also the insurance notification about coverage (private dental insurance in the US). If you had asked me at the time of the procedure how many they had I might not have been able to tell you.

My sisters and I:
One had to have her jaw broken and reset at a dental appointment to have teeth removed due to overcrowding. Mum took her home on the bus as she did not drive. She would have called a taxi if she had realised the bus wasn't going to come but as it was, they waited for nearly two hours (one bus off, service once an hour).
She had several fillings too (not at the same appointment).
I had two teeth extracted due to overcrowding, and many fillings. I also had braces.
Other sister had her teeth bonded per advice of the dentist as her teeth were basically 'made of chalk' to use his exact phrase. She still has all of her teeth.

In both cases, my family of origin and my own DCs, all had the same healthy diet - we never had fizzy drinks as children and my own children are the same. Our water supply is fluoridated. I cook from scratch, as did my mum, and we all eat a healthy diet. In my family of origin we had home grown veggies, and my own family follow recommendations for a healthy balanced diet.

In the case of my family of origin, I had a dentist uncle who always sent us toothbrushes and toothpaste and leaflets on dental hygiene for birthdays and Christmas, and checked our teeth when he visited. Our diet was 'dentist approved'. He taught us all how to brush and floss our teeth and send us the little red tablets that show the bits missed.

The dentist we went to for treatment was my uncle's BIL, and the way he taught patients to brush teeth was to bring those who had obviously neglected their dental hygiene out to the waiting room and tell the parent that he would not see little Johnny until he took care of his teeth. So you can bet I brushed and flossed mine, and my DCs were all taught by me how to brush and floss theirs too.

As Zzzzz states - if there was overall neglect here it would have been flagged.

The dental situation could happen with the best of knowledge and intentions and good practice.

YerAWizardHarry · 05/04/2018 04:30

Did he have them out under a GA? I'm an ex dental nurse who previously carried out pre assessments for extractions carried out under general anaesthetic. My dentist would have a look and make a plan as to which teeth needed extracted HOWEVER if by the time the appointment rolled around then any teeth with signs of decay over and above what was initially decided needed to come out too. It is to prevent the need for repeated GA's. Paperwork is signed agreeing to this however.

mammmamia · 05/04/2018 10:32

Wow I’m amazed at the hard time the OP is getting. Typical mumsent man bashing. I think the OP has every right to be concerned about neglect, EIGHT teeth out of absolutely shocking.

SundayGirls · 05/04/2018 10:41

Math why on earth are you having a go at the OP, who on the face of it is concerned and worried rightly so about his DCs rotten teeth, not of OP's making, which is clearly down to diet and poor tooth hygiene according to the experts who have examined and treated the children? It's like you care more for pulling OP apart and protecting the mother's feelings, very bizarrely. The fact is that two kids have had a lot of teeth removed due to decay and with that comes the stares from other kids, the name calling, the embarrassment and the awkwardness of eating without teeth. At an age at which their teeth should be protected by their caregivers. It's terrible for them.

But oh no, it's the OP in your firing line Hmm

SundayGirls · 05/04/2018 10:44

Also Math you have referred to OP as aggressive, controlling and bullying (is that allowed under MN Talk Guidelines?) amongst many other unpleasant things.

magickingdom82 · 05/04/2018 10:55

Why are people so vile to men who post on this forum?

zzzzz · 05/04/2018 11:09

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Schlimbesserung · 05/04/2018 11:37

I'd be worried too, OP. Unfortunately, dental care can be quite emotive so it can be difficult to discuss and some people do see fillings and extractions as normal (I'm the opposite and got stupidly upset every time one of my 4 had a filling- thankfully they only have 3 between them).

The only real chance of sorting this out is to take all the emotion out of it. You need to make it clear that you are not seeking to punish the mother or take away the children, but also that you see this as a real problem and you want to work together to solve it.

Since you have previously has a reasonable relationship it probably will be possible to do this amicably, but it will be tricky to start with. Be careful not to start from a position of blame, and keep the language neutral in that respect, or use "we" instead of "you" even though you do feel (perhaps rightly) that it is All Her Fault.

I also agree with pervious posters who have stressed speaking to the children about sugar and tooth decay. If they take the message on board then half the battle is won.

SundayGirls · 05/04/2018 12:07

zzzz even if "quite a few fillings" were "normal" at age 5-7 that doesn't make it right. It's very possible to have no fillings at all. None of my DCs do, I accept that sometimes it can happen because of weak enamel or even through fruit sugars not sweets, but it shouldn't be accepted as the norm.

I clean my DC's teeth thoroughly myself twice a day and more if they've had (say) treats on rare occasion after teeth cleaning in evening. I wouldn't send them to bed with teeth that had sugar on them. My DCs do eat some sugar, they don't have a sugar free diet, they have some sweets and chocolate but I limit them. Fizzy sweets are kept very minimal and fizzy drinks are literally a three times a year occasion, like holiday and Christmas. These are so bad for teeth.

Yes it takes effort to clean my DCs teeth twice a day, every day, 365 days a year, throughly and never miss a single time but that's what I do.

differentnameforthis · 05/04/2018 12:16

A lot of what has been suggested here is not going to work unless you can get mum and gran on board. They need to cut down on the sugar and up the oral hygiene routine. Definitely adult toothpaste for the oldest, and ask about it for the youngest, given the situation. If not, perhaps fluoride drops etc.

Yes, it can affect their adult teeth, as baby teeth maintain the space for the adult teeth to come through. Add to that, if your child at 5, has multiple teeth out already, then carrying on this way, they will lose their adult teeth to decay too. And as we know, they won't get another chance.

It's all well and good doing x,y,z at your home, with you but if it isn't being done at their main residence, you may as well not bother for all the good it will do.

differentnameforthis · 05/04/2018 12:22

SundayGirls No need to be patronizing. Sometimes, with the best will in the world, these things happen.

paddlingwhenIshouldbeworking · 05/04/2018 12:26

If a mother was posting about a similar situation with a father disregarding dietary advice in a child with a susceptibility to decay the thread would be filled with condemnation of the mother.

Some children absolutely have weaker teeth than others, so what's ok for some is not ok for others.

My friend's family have a very healthy diet, very few treats and only water, and limited milk at home. Still one of her children was a total fruit hound which we were all very impressed by when he'd turn down treats for fruit but he developed quite bad decay at around 5, and had tooth extractions. Clearly not all children who love fruit develop decayed teeth.

If you do have one of these children you have to be super vigilant. One child can drink coke til it comes out of there ears with no problem, it doesn't prove anything for another.

paddlingwhenIshouldbeworking · 05/04/2018 12:26

*condemnation of the father...aaargh

SundayGirls · 05/04/2018 13:26

different not being patronising? Simply stating my opinion that quite a few fillings at 5-7 is not normal, and why.

Also I said "I accept that sometimes it can happen because of weak enamel or even through fruit sugars not sweets, but it shouldn't be accepted as the norm." So yes, I agree, that sometimes with the best will in the world etc it can still happen. But it's still not acceptable as being inevitable.

ILikeMyChickenFried · 05/04/2018 13:36

Math you need to calm down! Children losing that many teeth due to decay is serious. It shouldn't matter that the parent asking for advice is the father

zzzzz · 05/04/2018 15:20

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

paranoidpammywhammy2 · 05/04/2018 15:42

My child was premature and on a lot of antibiotics etc when born and for the first few years. Her baby teeth are bad and we've been told it was due to this. Her adult teeth seem ok though.

Oblomov18 · 05/04/2018 16:08

Is this about getting custody?Easter Hmm
How do you know what their diet is like when they are with mum?

Ds1 no fillings.
Ds2 at aged 4 was told: very weak teeth, enamel peeling off lots of them. Dentist no idea why. In womb because of my diabetes she suggested? 4 fillings. Will need constant care, has fluoride pasted on each time, has had extractions already, will need braces, all sorts.
Both have same diet.

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