DD10 has persistent knee pain, any ideas?

[HaveNoTimeToThinkOfName]

My poor DD has been suffering with knee pain for about 8 weeks now, it hasn't eased off at any point and is possibly getting slightly worse. There has been no obvious initial injury, completely unexplainable, it isn't swollen or red or hot, the knees look no different to one another. Been to a doctor twice, the first one said complete rest for 2 days and to go back if no better. She was off school for those 2 days, it was slightly better she said but she couldn't go on being off school indefinitely! So back to being painful as soon as back. She hasn't been able to do P.E or netball, we have a puppy she has been missing out on walks with, it is starting to get her down now, she is missing out on birthday parties (that have involved trampolines or ice skating).

The pain is always in the same place on her left knee, running round the inner part of knee cap. She got knocked on it accidentally by someone yesterday and was in tears bless her. I wondered about jeuvenile arthiritis as arthiritis runs in family a bit (although not as children) but 2nd doctor ran blood tests and they have come back clear (although I have read somewhere that they can be a false negative sometimes?) so she has referred her to Orthopaedics, I tried to book the appointment and they have said they are fully booked/blocked at the moment so will call when appointments are available! It just sounds like this is going to be a long haul before we get any answers. She was in tears tonight again, would I be really wrong to take her to minor injury clinic at hospital or something and say she has just banged it and it is worse? In the hope they x-ray/scan her straightaway?!

Sorry for the waffly long post! Hope someone may have any thoughts on what this could be...thanks.

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My daughter has had knee problems since year 5. (now she is 16). We have seen a physio and his view is that in her case the problem is related to her growing quickly, pelvis shape changing and also the fact she is a bit flat footed. She has half insoles which help and the physio has shown her some exercises to support particular muscles supporting her knee cap. Could you afford to get a physio to take a look at her if other inestigations don't resolve the problem.

My DD's was caused by a foot problem. Insoles resolved it!

I'm going through this at the minute with my 5 year old. We are waiting to be referred to a podiatrist as GP thinks it's a problem with the foot

Is she very sporty?

I would see a physio.
they have ways of feeling where the pain comes from (muscle, bone, back, feet) and then go to gp for appropriate referral.

Maybe Osgood Schlatters disease? it's common in sporty kids.

Could it be Osgood Schlatters?

A similar thing happened with dd9 about 3 years ago. Started in one ankle, 9 months later moved to the other. A yea or so later, has moved to her wrists. It was initially diagnosed as JIA, and about 6 or so months later rediagnosed as hypermobility. Dd waas very sporty. It's had a massive impact on her, we see physio, OT, and podiatry regularly. But with their help, dd has been able to remain sporty despite the pain.

The pain she experiences is a symmetrical band around Each joint, about 2 or so cm wide.

You could mention that to your GP, it would involve a rheumatology referral.

Oh, dd was similarly in massive pain. I kept taking her to the GP, who kept pushing hospital urgent clinic, physio, OT etc etc agreeing she just couldn't be left in pain.

Physio and podiatry, esp v. Supportive shoes (trainers) worn always, have really sorted out the biomechanical pain resulting from the hypermobility.

I third Osgood sclatters

My knee problems were collapsed arches/flat feet. Arch supports helped.

Blood tests dont always show arthritis. Seronegative arthritis means there are no markers in the blood.

I am not an expert....just know because ds (17) is newly diagnosed.

I asked if she was sporty as I was thinking Osgood Schlatters. But a quick google suggests a telltale lump under the knee.

When I was at school ALL the cool sporty kids got osgoodshlatters disease, it became a badge of awesomeness. (Not me, I was slow clumsy kid )

Thank you so much for all your replies! I never thought of possible flat feet although not sure it is obvious with DD? Would I need to see a physio before thinking of insoles?

I have read about Osgood schlatters but it says if they have pain at rest it isn't likely to be that, which is the case for her. She isn't really sporty! Dislikes P.E but enjoyed being in the netball team, I'm really conscious that she isn't doing any form of exercise now, she doesn't feel up to walking far. Perhaps we should look into a physio and see what they think while we are waiting for hospital appointment.

Really appreciate all your replies, really helpful!

re flat feet what are her usual shoes?
if ballerinas, stop it, they are horrendous for feet, knees and posture.

Hi SmallGreenBouncyBall thats interesting, she has clarks school shoes which are brogue style lace up, weekends she would wear her boots at the moment which are m and s, I'm going to look at her feet later! Thanks for your advice everyone, sorry your DC have experienced similar problems, its hard to see them in pain and not be able to do anything to instantly solve it isn't it!

Maybe Osgood Schlatters disease? it's common in sporty kids.

I had Osgood Schlatters and I had pain at rest, and when doing stuff. Random times sometimes.

Any kind of strain would make it worse, such as jumping off something or going down stairs.

DS2 had Osgood Schlatters from when he was about 9. He had pain when at rest and the very distinctive bumps you get with it. He had to have surgery on the worse knee when he was 13.

I wouldn't discount it, just yet.

Don't bother with A and E. You might get an Xray, but you won't get an opinion from an experienced orthopaedic or rheumatology doctor, you will get a recent graduate who is unlikely to be able to help you. Physio is a good plan.
Can you afford to pay for a private assessment appointment? You can always go back to NHS afterwards, but you can get an opinion quickly.

Thanks clobbered I will look into cost of private physio I think while waiting for the NHS referral like you say.

Thanks TheFairyCaravan your poor ds having surgery on it, is it all solved now? My DD has pain at rest also but no bumps, its really odd I can't see or feel anything different (although she doesn't let us feel it properly). Thanks again everyone.

private physio is around 90£ for first assessment (45 min) and around 50 for half hour sessions after (in london).
in our case best money ever spend as it was the first proper step towards a diagnosis after months of 'paracetamol and rest' from gp...

I had osgood schlatters. Didn't have massive bumps under knees compared to some. It used to hurt at night too.

Dd (13) has just been diagnosed with hypermobility after being in pain since the summer. She's normally very sporty but has been able to do very little in the last few months as her knees, hips and ankles have been too sore.

She's having physio, has exercises she needs to do every day and has been referred for orthotic insoles. She can't do breaststroke any more as she kept tearing the muscles deep inside her hip

She's very tall and thin and it runs in the family - the consultant thinks it hasn't caused her problems up to now as she's very strong through being so active but sudden growth spurts can put everything out of kilter and exacerbate the situation

Even though she's still in pain dd's feeling much happier as at least she knows what it is now

We ended up going private for the initial consultation as it was taking so long to get seen but she's now back in the nhs system

Good luck