ADHD

[Hopandaskip]

AIBU to think that if up to 16% of kids in one US state are diagnosed with ADHD that ADHD isn't a syndrome, it is normal?

It seems crazy to me the number of children who are being medicated with mind altering drugs. Up to 10% of school age boys in the U.S?

Wow.

Have you published your findings?

You are not qualified to make a diagnosis of ADHD. Therefore not qualified to say what you think is genuine or not.

If you had a knowledge of the diagnostic criteria then you would be aware that they rely on a description of the symptoms displayed by the child. They do not require any conclusions about aetiology, so for you to try and separate it into what you see as being congenital and what you see as a lack of nuture is totally meaningless in that context.

Conduct disorder is not ADHD
Who has told you this rubbish asiatic?

I think ADHD is frequently sometimes inaccurately diagnosed. In my county children who are struggling with their behaviour go to CAMHS and almost ALWAYS come out with a diagnosis of ADHD and/or ASD or nothing. This is partly due to lazy very, very overstretched services not looking particularly thoroughly into each case.

There is a huge cross over between symptoms of ADHD, dyspraxia, sensory intergration difficulties and some aspects of ASD (amongst other conditions) so it is quite hard to get a really spot-on dx and they just don't bother. Then there are things that might well be a more accurate dx but the psychiatrists won't stick their necks out to diagnose like CU, paediatric bi-polarism, pro-dromal schizophrenia, pro-dromal anti-social personality disorder etc etc.

It is not a perfect system. I don't think there is over diagnosis in the uk but I think there is pretty rife mis-diagnosis.

cronskilt I have decades of training and experience in conduct disorders, I specialised in raising teenagers with conduct disorders for 2 years, I was the regional specialist, before I had my own children and gave it up.

A conduct disorder is damage done to a developing brain by lack of nurture. Social norms do not become embedded. This is irreversible, although you can teach a child t o behave, if they want to learn, it will never become instinctive, the way it is with children brough up with love and disipline.

These conduct disorders are normally called ADHD. The child is seriously disabled and disadvanteged by this, it is an over simplification to just call it bad parenting, although to a lesser extent bad parenting does cause a lesser conduct disorder.

ADHD as a congenital condition also exists, but is rare.

Your opinion does not a fact make.

EBDteacher

Have you considered returning to psychiatry to help improve that?

sorry, that should say 20 years, not 2 years

So what you are saying Asiatic, is that I have damaged my childs brain through neglect? If I were you I would make syself very clear indeed before you carry on...you've just managed to piss me off no end at the moment.

No molepom it might be imaginary.

catsareevil would you seriouly rather kids went around with the wrong 'label' on their paper work which meant they never got the right intervention?

For example if a child is labled ADHD but actually their symptoms are caused by Sensory Intergration Disorder they will not be refered to an OT who could really help them.

Anyway, obviously I bow to your authority on the subject.

Kids arrive with me because they have 'behavioural difficulties'. It is my job to care very deeply about what actually underlies those difficulties so we can get the support and intervention package right. Would you rather I just thought they all had ADHD because they can't sit and listen?

I don't quite understand what the axe is you're grinding?

Oh lovely, imaginary you say....excuse me while I just wet myself laughing...

OT referral is the stage we all fight to get to. Regardless of the label that gets us there.

So Asiatic it is all bad parenting? Do you write for the Hate Mail?

Pitiful and horrific comments. I think this thread has reached the troll-filled midpoint. I await the return of sensible folk but I don't think I'll be monitoring the thread any more.

I remember now why I stopped checking Mums' net.

Conduct disorder occurs when ODD is not treated
ODD is a condition which does not occur by itself but as a co-morbidity.
To develop ODD a child has to be neurologically wired towards it.
Children with ODD are very difficult to parent - hence the emphasis on parenting classes
I feel very sorry for any parent that came across you while struggling with their sn child

That post was to asiatic btw

MNHubbie I hope that isn't aimed at me because my problem with the system is that some children and families are not given enough access to the specialisits who can dx, and after the point of dx there is not enough effort put in by the system to get intervention right for the child.

This is basically because CAMHS are unbelievable stretched and that situation is getting worse.

I say this from my (humble) professional experience. I have sat with psychiatrists/ clin psychs while they have argued with one another over dx enough times to know that it is not straightforward, in the sort of complex cases I work with anyway.

That is not technically accurate either cronsilksilt

Hi we've moved this into Children's Health.

Conduct Disorder

From DSM IV. No specific aetiology required for dx.

ODD

Specifically says if behaviour problems DO NOT meet criteria for Conduct Disorder.

EBDteacher "catsareevil would you seriouly rather kids went around with the wrong 'label' on their paper work which meant they never got the right intervention?"

Absolutely not, and I agree with you that the most important thing is do get the right intervention for the child, it was just that the list of alternative diagnosis that you gave raised my eyebrows a bit. I apologise for being snippy with you.

No worries.

I wasn't suggesting that those were alternative dxs for ADHD, my apologies if it reads like that.

I was just ranting because I work with children with extremely severe and complex behavioural difficulties (for some of whom ADHD may be part of the very complicated picture) and I do get frustrated when it doesn't seem that a full range of possible causes are considered. Actually completely irrelevant to the thread .

In my experience.
ADHD is one of the least diagnosed conditions in young children.

I work with 0-5.

I realise that my experience of just one borough isnt a scientific study.
Its a tiny bit more scientific than 'the teachers tell you how to get dx and get DLA' though.

Cos we all know how easy it is to get DLA for a pre schooler with ADHD (but that is a seperate thread daily mail article

DX is tricky for lots of conditions and as PP have said they tend to overlap. It is very hard to tell what is going on with a 3 year old who cant sit still, spits and hits and bangs their head when they are angry. ASD? ADHD? RAD? Brain Tumour? Abuse?

Which is why any nursery trying to dx a child out of hand should be reported

Different classifications true - however conduct disorder is known to occur if ODD is left untreated