ADHD

[Hopandaskip]

AIBU to think that if up to 16% of kids in one US state are diagnosed with ADHD that ADHD isn't a syndrome, it is normal?

It seems crazy to me the number of children who are being medicated with mind altering drugs. Up to 10% of school age boys in the U.S?

The link that catgirl gave was helpful, because on it showed the difference in a brain of a patient diagnosed with ADHD and one without.

OP- Unless you and others on here are neurological specialist, then really it is well out of your sphere of understading. In the organic sense.

All you doubtful people can volunteer with my adhd son then. Diagnosed since he was six his lack of concentration and inability to control himself and his temper has led to increasingly violent outbursts and physical violence towards me.

I dont doubt he has other problems and he is still waiting for an autistic assessment but his life and ours have been blighted by this condition.

I do get pissed off when people have a pop at adhd. Try living with it.

Without meds my 6 year old with ADHD would be dead because of his poor impulse control.

Prior to medication he attempted to hurl himself down flights of stairs, jumped into a deep pond and went under and attempted to hurl himself into traffic. Now he can be physically restrained. That won't be the case in a couple of years.

People can flap their gums in ignorance about the evils of Ritalin but sometimes there is no other option.

where is the OP?
Why start a thread about such an emotive subject and then not comeback to it?

Actually I think having eczema is normal. At least I don't see myself as abnormal just because if you (currently) pull up my right sleeve you might have a bit of a shock.

There are far more unusual (and interesting) things about me than my over-reacting immune system.

But severe eczema on a child needs treating, or the child will suffer.

Eczema is a medical condition, just as ADHD is.

Just because something needs treating, doesn't mean it's not normal.

I don't think people are saying that some children don't need medication. I know I'm not. Some children absolutely need medication. What I'm saying is that there is a general problem with people being over-medicated and nothing else. I live in Canada and one of the fastest growing drug addiction problems is that of children taking inappropriate prescription medication. Twice, when I have had a cough, I have been offered a prescription for codeine. Codeine FFS, it's an opiate and one which my medical records state I am allergic to. There was no attempt to find the cause of the cough. In one case, I was already in hospital and asked for "something for my cough". I meant a cough sweet or maybe some Benelyn, not an opiate. People here all drink coffee until 11pm, then take sleeping pills. I hope the UK is very different.

I also think that medication can sometimes be used by medical professionals instead of other treatments. So, if I present as depressed, I am offered anti-depressants. Not counselling, not groupwork, not CBT, just meds. Here, I get the impression that this is sometimes the case with ADHD. I am not saying that meds can't be useful but they should be one tool in a very big arsenal.

I'm really sorry if I gave the impression that I don't think that the parents of children with ADHD are working really hard. I really feel for you and hope that my contributions to this thread have not been insensitive.

"I see what the OP is saying. I have blonde hair. Perfectly normal but only a small % of people have blonde hair."

"I live in North America and the answer to everything is meds. Can't sleep, meds. Feel sad, meds. Can't self-motivate, meds. Possibly seeing ADHD as a normal fluctuation in behavior would help people to manage it rather than to medicate it solely."

YES, exactly, everything should be fixed with a pill! Drives me wild about the U.S.

I wasn't being mean, what I think is if this is a normal thing for humans (like being blonde or left-handed or some other minority trait) and our kids aren't being well received by society and schools (at least here in the U.S.) then perhaps we (as a culture) need an attitude adjustment.

There are famous and successful people, e.g. CEO of Jetblue that credit having adhd as what has helped them become who they are. There are many that want to focus on the positives of ADHD. Society seems to have a problem with that, they want the brilliance, the speed, the creativity without having to deal with a more exuberant person, someone that has more drive. Why can't we value people with these traits more?

I do know about kids that get into everything. I was the mom with the furniture bolted to the walls because my 12 mo old could climb anything and did while I went to the loo. He had to go to the playground every day after school to spin and hang upside down for at least an hour or I would be crying by 5pm. The week he started playing water polo (about the hardest sport there is IMO) his teacher asked if I had medicated him. No, he was finally out of energy. I have one kid being assessed right now. His school thinks he has ADHD, I suspect he is just a high energy kid with lowish impulse control (like many boys) who is bored silly and acting out. He copes just fine, just is a bit of a handful and marches to the beat of another drummer, he is improving and will do just fine in the long run IMO.

As for 'normal' even when something is normal it might be on the far end of normal. Someone has to be at each end of a spectrum of normal. We should recognise this as a culture.

I was asked for some sources. I'm assuming the U.N is considered a valid one?

"The United Nations released a report in February of 1996 expressing concern over the discovery that 10 percent to 12 percent of all male school children in the United States currently take the drug" (from www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/medicating/readings/publicinterest.html )

My data also came from the CDC (government health organisation)
www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html

BTW some studies are now suggesting that most ADHD medications have at most a 2 yr life span.

Mrs- the OP needed to confirm if she was talking about the UK or US.

If something is classed as a medical condition, it isn't 'normal' or typical.

A cough isn't a medical condition, it can be a response to a medical condition, iyswim.

ADHD isn't a symptom ,it's the cause, the cause is being treated, in this case and as a result the symptoms lesson and allow the patient to function better.

However the OP needs to return to the thread.

Oh and where was I, well I'm in San Diego and this is the middle of our day. My son was competing at a kayak regatta.

Look, I don't doubt that SOME people diagnosed with ADHD struggle and really need help. I don't think that ALL people do. My son's bf has a diagnosis and does not need medication, he does fine without it.

"But severe eczema on a child needs treating, or the child will suffer.

Eczema is a medical condition, just as ADHD is."

and just like eczema not everyone who has it needs heavy duty medications. Some need a little hydrocortisone from time to time or a diet change or whatever works for them. My son had it as a baby and almond oil worked fabulously for him and he was prescribed it. My older son and I both have asthma, yeah, I think that is pretty normal too now. Some people with asthma have huge problems with it and some do not at all. My son hasn't needed his inhaler for over a year even though tests have shown definitively that he still has it.

"Mrs- the OP needed to confirm if she was talking about the UK or US."

Both of my two sentences in my opening post said that I was talking about the US. I think that was pretty clear. Should I have bolded and underlined it too?

Can you find data that isn't 16 years old?

I could drag out data that considered ME to be yuppie flu etc.

I think that in most cases the parents are the best judge, not random strangers on the internet.

I personally think that more adult research is needed as some doctors link ADHD with forms of bi polar and this isn't funded enough.

ADHD doesn't go away at 16 years old, but ritalin stops.

I have ADHD - it has taken 25 years to get a diagnosis and treatment. For the first time in my life I am not panicking at every moment that I'm going to lose my job for doing something unprofessional.

DS is 4, and is showing all the signs of ADHD as well as some ASD symptoms too. It breaks my heart to think that he's going to have to go through all the shit that I've gone through. If a diagnosis and medication can help him, then I will gratefully accept it.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes is all I have to say.

Hop-not all children with ADHD are medicated in the UK.

If your thread is about the US then i will leave it because that is a completely different arguement.

I don't think that ALL people do

I don't think that with MH or whatever you want to call it, statements such as "i think" can be used ,it needs to be well researched and evidenced based.

Not just a pondering thought.

I get what you mean, OP. To overdiagnose ADHD (or ASD, or eczema, or even the flu) makes it much harder for the people who genuinely have the condition.
Sure, some kids are very impulsive or have high activity levels, etc - doesn't mean all of them have ADHD, and even if they do, prescription medicine isn't the right answer for all of them. Just like every socially awkward person doesn't have an ASD condition. And not every rash is eczema you get the picture!

Btw, isn't there a huge regional difference in the rate of ADHD meds prescription in the US?

ok well I know that not ALL people diagnosed with ADHD need medication because as I stated, I personally know someone with that diagnosis that copes well with school without medication. His mum is one of my best friends.

Not sure why a social conversation on a parenting board needs to be "well researched and evidenced based" though.

As for more recent evidence, the CDC one is more recent. I'm sure there are more recent ones but if I wanted to work that hard I would do it as a job. This is my time to relax because my kids are reading and the washing up is done.

However, there are experts who do agree with me. One is cited in this Guardian news article, but there are others. www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/may/11/ritalin-adhd-drugs

thank you EoNToF, its nice that not everyone is making me out to be some evil child hater because I'm proposing that we be more accepting of different kinds of behaviour and not expect all children to be quiet and placid. It should make it easier for someone with severe adhd if every Tom, Dick and Harry with a wiggly bottom wasn't immediately diagnosed, not harder, so I'm a bit non-plussed as to why I'm the bad guy here.

Ah, well, you know what the AIBU on MN is like. It's useful for illuminating the depth of ignorance of most people have on most subjects..... But in-depth conversation on a serious topic? Ermmm......

I think the issue is that parents of children with ADHD have to fend off idiots people who think they are bad/lazy/stupid parents. A certain amount of defensiveness is completely understandable.

IMO a lot of MH conditions are a spectrum rather than an on/off switch. Having more and more sensitive tests for conditions means that people will be 'caught' by the system more. This can be a good or bad thing. I have worked with people who received information about things in their adult life (dyslexia in one case, ASD in another) which could have really helped them receive help in their childhood. It would have been great for them to know sooner. If the tests get more and more sensitive and the medication becomes more and more what is used to manage it, then I think there is an issue. I think this tipping point has been reached in North America but it sounds like it hasn't in the UK.

I find this is the case with all the blinking intolerances everyone in North America has. Practically everyone I know is either lactose intolerant, allergic to gluten or avoiding the nightshade bloody family. I know two people with celiac disease and everybody seems to think they are on the trendy food bandwagon when in fact, they have an extremely difficult life-changing condition.

"Not sure why a social conversation on a parenting board needs to be "well researched and evidenced based" though."

Because that is the minimum standard for any scientific discussion. The scientific method requires evidence to back up any hypothesis and without it any hypothesis is invalid.

It is counter productive to discuss something of this nature without evidence. It is a hard enough battle to deal with newspapers that print out and out lies, former glamour models suggesting it is better for children to die of polio than be vaccinated, education departments that refuse to use the words "dinosaur" or "evolution" because they may cause offence. MN is above that kind of thing.

ADHD is a condition that causes real heartache and whilst you are entitled to opinion (everyone has one, there are lots of things everyone has) if you are going to air an opinion that could be viewed by some as deeply offensive to their suffering you should have the common courtesy to listen to evidence based responses to your point and counter in kind.

Perhaps the American system does over medicate. I wouldn't know. I do know I would be discussing all options with my doctor and would be weighing up all sides and all potential treatments based upon evidence. It is not the doctors who medicate at the end of the day but the parents. I do know also that as with all conditions of this nature: ADHD, ASD, dyspraxia etc it is incredibly hard to get a diagnosis over here and that any treatment programme is discussed in depth with parents (and occasionally teachers) and is very carefully monitored starting with nonmedical intervention and working carefully to find correct doses if medication is started. I do also know that several studies have shown that many folks who have fallen into criminal ways have undiagnosed conditions such as ADHD but I don't have that evidence to hand so you can feel free to discount that if you wish until someone can post an appropriate link.

You could be entirely correct. You could have a valid point. Your comment against evidence based responses however is entirely inappropriate.

That is why i left the thread, whereas i could discuss the system, rights and wrongs around the UK, i couldn't across the US.

In the UK it is common to get a due/multiple diagnosis, but some do not wish to hang labels on to children and will just sum up the childs problems, such as information processing, impulsive/dangerous behaviour, rather than find a 'syndrome', which can be more helpful.

I still think that it isn't a shame that more research isn't done on adults, who were diagnosed with ADHD as children and are still suffering/managing, some aspects of the condition, such as anxiety/impulsiveness etc.

There is loads of evidence based reporting, regarding the undiagnosed and the criminal system.

informahealthcare.com/doi/full/10.3109/15622975.2011.600319

www.thementalelf.net/category/populations-and-settings/crime

www.addandadhd.co.uk ? Living With ADHD

One from the US.

adultaddstrengths.com/2011/.../adhd-and-crime-ignore-now-jail-later...

YANBU, OP because it is obviously so easy to get a diagnosis of ADHD and they hand out medication like it's Smarties. In fact, it's just an excuse used by crap mums and dads who can't be bothered to parent their vile, naughty children properly. I think a good walloping would sort them out pronto.

YANBU, OP because it is obviously so easy to get a diagnosis of ADHD and they hand out medication like it's Smarties. In fact, it's just an excuse used by crap mums and dads who can't be bothered to parent their vile, naughty children properly.

Nunthewiser, largely I think this is true, I know in my LO's case I've been "offered" the diagnosis purely so that schools and nurserys can claim extra money, and I can claim DLA. Nursery staff in the past have even coached me in what I should say. I've always refused, because DC do not have ADHD, they are simply overactive, above average,but not excessivly so. I have no doubt they could be both sitting here with diagnosis, perscriptions,statements, benefits, if I had agreed to it.

ADHD exists, but genuine cases are rare, Look at all the research into attachment disorders, you will find it is very well documented that failure to nurture and disipline a child will result in the symptoms of ADHD. This is a conduct disorder - in other words, damage done to the child's development because of the child's environment. It is a very serious disability for the child, and it is caused by poor parenting - this is why it has such a high incidence in foster children who have been removed from inadaquet parents.

A tiny number of children are born with ADHD, and they are often nothing like the steriotype, often very quiet and withdrawn. There case is not helped by the large numbers of suspect diagnosis handed around to anyone who wants one.

(Lougle, why do you think your daughter has ADHD? nothing at all that you have said about your daughter suggests ADHD, that I can see)