Active discussions

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Original poster

Paying Nannies whilst sick

127 replies

lisalisa · 09/03/2005 15:21

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
MaryP0p1 · 09/03/2005 15:37

So are you saying that because of the job she does she doesn't deserve to get paid sick leave? How would you feel if the situation was reversed?

FooFoo · 09/03/2005 15:48

Why don't you just pay her statutory sick pay whic is somewhere in the region of £30-£40 per week? (not sure of the exact amount) thats all a lot of us get anyway. You also don't have to pay anything for the 1st few days (think its 3) that someone is off sick.

MaryP0p1 · 09/03/2005 15:56

Did you not discuss this with her at her initial interview? I have worked as a childminder, nanny and now work in nurseries. I have always discussed prior to taking up a post what would happen if I was sick, my children were sick/off school and if parents didn't want my service because of sickness/holidays etc. If its agreed before employment/contract begins everyone happy and everyone knows where they stand.

I don't think its about corporate virus private family employment its about being fair and if you have discussed and agreed it early in the relationship there's no confusion/upset but to turn around now and say I'm not paying you sick leave may cause bad feeling between you all.

elliott · 09/03/2005 15:57

Sorry to be annoying but there's definitely a recent-ish thread on this. Don't know much about it myself but trying to avoid posting on the other threads(!). My understanding from the other thread was that basically you can choose what you put in the contract, but don't have to give anything more than statutory sick pay which stops fairly quickly. May be completely wrong of course

CountessDracula · 09/03/2005 16:05

yes there is Lisalisa and you posted on it!

Here it is

You are an employer and as such have responsibilities.

catgirl · 09/03/2005 16:07

no idea on the pay situation, but could you/your dh/p take some time off work to cover? (calling in sick for yourselves rather than your children if necessary)?

Blu · 09/03/2005 16:18

You can claim the sick pay back from the IR, can't you? SOME allevaition!

I do sympathise with the painful financial impatc, LilsaLisa, but stand by my reply to your post on the old thread - a nanny can't afford to 'swallow' the lack of pay on her (presumably lower) salary any more than you can!

I agree with Catgirl - you and DH take some time off sick yourself- your employer can presumably swallow having an employee less for a day or two? (I don't mean that bitchily - I'm agreeing with you in the corporate scale of things...)

ssd · 09/03/2005 17:13

lisalisa, forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't you the MN'er who has a nanny and an au pair? If you are can't the au pair stand in?

uwila · 11/03/2005 16:08

Hi Lisalisa,
I agree with the sentiments in your original post. And, as other have already said, you are legally bound to do whatever your contract says. If it is not mentioned in your contract, then you must give SSP, which kick in either on or after the third. I definitely agree with your point that it is unfair that working parents are expect to perform as profitable companies. However, the law is the law, so the strict answer to your question is 1- contractual obligation and following that 2- SSP.

I take people's points that it is rather hard on the nanny to have to go without pay... but it can be just as hard or even harder on the employer. It is not always true to say the employer has more money than the nanny. £700 is a lot of money to some of us.

ssd · 11/03/2005 18:02

As a childminder, I don't charge if I'm sick as the parents may have to pay for alternate care.

It's a hard one, as the parents maybe pushed to the limit paying a salary once and find sick pay impossible to pay, also a nanny will be relying on her wages to pay her bills and probably feels really bad she's let her employer down.

When I worked as a nanny in central London, I never took a sick day - just lucky I guess.To be honest I worked for families who earned big bucks and I'd have felt badly treated if I wasn't paid sick pay.Thank God the issue didn't need addressing as I'm sure some families would have grudged me the pay and I know that would have put me off the job......In my experience the people who earn mega bucks are the tightest and make you account for every 20p spent, even if it's all spent on their kids...

Original poster
lisalisa · 14/03/2005 11:26

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
ssd · 14/03/2005 11:41

lisalisa, this isn't a racist question, I'm just wondering as I used to be a nanny myself.

I was a nanny about 17 years ago, so I'm out of date. Are there lots of European nannies now, when I did it they were all British/Australian.

I'm just asking as I noticed your nannies were from Hungary and Romania?

Toothache · 14/03/2005 11:45

When I was working as a Contractor I was not entitled to sick pay. I was paid for the hours I was present at work. Thats how contracting works.... so could a Nanny be classed as a contractor? I was working through an Agency at an Engineering Firm.

Original poster
lisalisa · 14/03/2005 11:47

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
Blu · 14/03/2005 11:58

REALLY sympathise over the 'disappearing nannies' LisaLisa. But I still think it's a different issue from legitimate sick pay..

Toothache and ssd - childminders are self-employed, so presumably build cost of any contingency for sick pay and hols into the fees - like any other freelance / contract worker, AND the gvt closed a loophole last year that enabled nannies to work as a 'company' on a freelance or self-employed person.

Toothache · 14/03/2005 12:17

BLu - Does that mean they are or they are not independant?? Sorry.... I'm a bit dim today.

When I saw this thread I must admit I was immediately agnry about someone who can afford a Nanny trying to avoid paying the poor girl sick pay..... but then I thought "Hang on a minute!!" I didn't get any sick pay as a Contractor.... or holiday pay. It was awful. I'd be at work no matter how crap I felt. Even when I was heavily pregnant with Ds I would still drag myself in to work when I was in agony with UTI's. Doesn't create a healthy or productive working environement though.

So whilst I feel that everyone should be entitled to sick pay.... it's just a fact that if she is freelance, or even working through an Agency as a Contractor then the Client doesn't have to pay sick pay. The Agency might though.

uwila · 14/03/2005 13:14

Oh no, Lisalisa. You have to replace her again. I've just come to the conclusion that I have to replace my nanny. But, I've got nothing to complain about compared to your luck. Where do youplan to look for new nanny. I'm venturing back on over to greataupair.com.

uwila · 14/03/2005 13:17

Btw, Toothache, it is illegal to hire a nanny as anything but your employer. However, can I just emphasise the point that not everyone who finds nannies to be the only suitable childcare actually has much money -- certainly not after paying taxes! Some people hire nanies because it is the only kind of childcare that will cater to their work schedule(s).

Sorry to say, my nanny does not have anything beyond SSP on offer -- sinply because I could not possibly afford it.

ssd · 14/03/2005 13:32

Blu, I know what you mean about childminders - I am one!

But TBH I don't factor in my not getting sick pay or holiday pay into my hourly rate (£2.75), I just take it as part of my job

Toothache · 14/03/2005 14:33

Uwila - It's illegal to hire a Nanny who is freelance??? Does only apply to Nannies?

Original poster
lisalisa · 14/03/2005 14:40

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
uwila · 14/03/2005 15:42

Lisalisa,
In the short term, could you scrounge up a childminder in the are where au pair could take the little one when she has to go to class? IF you find one with a vacancy, they would probably be happy to atake on a bit of extra cash. And, you won't have to mess with the taxes. temporary employee, and so on. Miche be worth a look on childcarelink.gov.uk (not sure about the web address but a search on "child care link" should find it)

Good luck!

Original poster
lisalisa · 14/03/2005 16:06

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
ragtaggle · 14/03/2005 17:26

I just wanted to add my twopenneth worth on this discussion as I started the last thread on this. I get a bit fed up with the assumption that those of us that employ nannies earn loads of money! Some of us are freelancers who have to employ a nanny to fit in with the hours we work (How many nurseries keep children until seven?) My dh and I don't leave the house until half nine in the morning so my nanny comes late to fit in with those hours.

Also, in the freelance world, none of us get sick pay - it's unheard of. So whoever said 'how would you feel' well the answer is that many of us know exactly how it feels not to get sick pay. (|Although I think these things have to be agreed in advance) Also, the legislation on employing nannies is completely unfair. We have to pay tax on our own income and then our nannies tax too. My nanny and I have now agreed to a set amount of sick days a year. The problem - and it's a real one - is that you do have to pay someone else if your nanny is sick. And I agree with lisali that seven hundred pounds is a lot of money. We, like many people, just afford our nanny and paying double wages isn't an option.

ChicPea · 15/03/2005 00:06

Lisalisa, if the subject of sick pay wasn't discussed with your nanny at the interview or during employment, then you just need to pay her SSP. It's about £12 - £15 per day and you claim this back from the IR when you pay the Tax and NI every quarter. Perfectly legal and fair. However, if again you didn't agree on the subject of sick pay and you pay her full pay this time, you then set a precedent and she can contest this should you then revert to SSP. I am not legally trained but was advised this.

Re: the nanny who you paid x2 weeks holiday pay. Was this accrued holiday? I only pay accrued holiday as you never know if they will return and also why give somebody a sub unless they have worked for you for years and you want to do them a favour? Bad luck though.

Going back to your current nanny, sounds suspicious to me. I wouldn't offer to pay her flight, I would just look for another nanny.

I have had a nanny call me from the hospital with gastric flu and took nine days off. I was spitting. She came back a stone lighter and I did call the hospital on the pretext of sending flowers and they did confirm she was a patient. Paying her £400 NET per week for her NOT to turn up to work and stopping me from working really p**d me off (apologies for the expletives) but I had a doctor's note as well and saw that it was genuine. She then called in sick two more times (unpaid) on odd days and I sacked her saying "I'm going to look after my children myself."

A good one to add to the employment contract is that sick pay will not be paid in the first six months of employment except for SSP and is discretionary thereafter. I have that in all my office contracts. It makes people think twice about lolling in bed on a Monday morning...

Oooooh, the difficulties of it all.