Paying Nannies whilst sick

[lisalisa]

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hi im a qualified nanny and have been in this situation. i was paid ssp which is £66.15. you are not obliged to pay it for the first 3 days but then u do have to. im relation to another part of your post u said u had to pay £700 for 2 weeks cos the nanny was on holiday. why didnt you do what my employer did and write it into the contract that she got her holidays when u took urs then u would be at home to look after the child/ren

Chicpea - You fired your Nanny coz she phoned in sick a couple of odd days after having a serioud bout of Gastric Flu?????? I'm glad I don't work for you, maybe I have misunderstood your post. I hope! I've had lots of odd days off here and there from work, whether it's because I'm sick, hurt my back, kidney infection or Ds being too ill to go to Nursery.... if my work fired me for being off a few times I'd take them to court.

Everyone gets ill and there isn't much you can do about that. And to be 'spitting'mad at someone for being SO ill that they are hospitalised is ludicrous and very strange.

Ragtaggle - I have recently had to look into an alternative source of childcare than private nursery due to a long waiting list for a space for babies (long story). I have an appointment with a Childminder this evening that takes children from 7am to 7pm and also said she was extremely flexible outwith those times. She even does weekends. Her charge is £2.50 per hour.

I don't know how common this is, but surely it's cheaper and as convenient as a Nanny? Just wondering.

Toothache, Congratulations! 7:00 to 7:00 at £2.50 an hour is a rare find. Where are you? I assume only one child? I used to have a childminder who was quite flexible on the hours, but £5/hour. So, twice what you pay!

Almost sounds too good to be true... but then DH will tell you I am a big skeptic about everything.

Uwila - It's £2.50 per hour, per child no matter what age. It can't be too good to be true.... coz we've booked her! We're in Central Scotland and the most expensive Childminder on the Council list I was given was £3 per hour.

Some were just £20 per day for children over the age of 12 months. I'd still prefer dd was in Nursery (the same Nursery as Ds aged 3.5)... but... needs must.

Must be the area. I live in the south (Middlesex/Surrey border).

Maybe I'll move to Scotland.

Most childminders do work the normal working day.

According to the latest figures from the Daycare Trust a full-time place for a child under two averages out at £127 for a week ? and in the South East it?s about £30 more.

I don't get sick pay but then I have different employers. If I worked for one, who didn't pay me sick pay, I'd go and work for someone else.

Depends on how you define "normal working day". I need one who allows my the time to get to and from work and still be there for a little more than most people's normal working day. And I am sometime unpredictaby late. So I also need someone who is rather tolerant of variable hours. They do exist, but tend to charge more.

i think it would be fair to pay overtime above the normal expected working day ie time and a half or double if you're paying hourly rates

I have childminded in the past and as a childminder (self employed) did not charge for my sickness and had a close friend (also a childminder) who would cover my sickness and holidays. It worked well because we were both very similiar in approach and saw each other often so the children were used to the backup cover. Also, when I used a childminder they had backup cover (who I met prior to starting the contract).

I thought all newly registered childminders now had to ensure they had emerency cover in place.

Lisa Lisa I have to say while I have every sympathy having been there and done that I have more sympathy for your nanny. Having read your posts you seem to have buried your head in the sand and not discussed and ironed out any likely problems before entering into the contract and now want to change the assumed contract. If I was your nanny I would probably be saying I was so sick I'm going home and not come back. Sorry if I sound hard but I feel unless you understand your nanny's point of view as well as your own your going to have ongoing issues with this nanny but any successors. When dealing with someone who cares for your children you need to maintain communication so you get the best from your, in this case nanny, and that all problems are ironed out early on. Judging by this thread and the priovious thread this hasn't been done.

PS sorry if I sound like I'm having a go. I'm truly not, I'm just giving an honest opinion from someone who has been on both sides of the childcare front.

When I worked full-time, I was lucky enough to get 6 weeks annual holiday from my employer so I always kept a week in hand in case my nanny was sick. Although you are entitled to take sick leave I felt it would go down better at work if I was using my annual leave allowance. This worked very well and I invariably had a few extra days holiday left at the end of the year which I could either carry forward or take time off for xmas shopping etc.

perhaps this sounds a bit controversial but if you can afford to employ (and house) an au pair and employ a nanny that you don't pay sick pay to then you can afford to employ no au pair and a nanny you do pay sick pay to. I also fail to see why two weeks paid holiday costs so much - just take leave from your own job at the same time. And all of this and other details (including how much notice the nanny is obliged to give should she decide to leave) should be in a contract. A contract is an agreement between two equal adults that says that one party will give x (pay and certain conditions) and the other will give y (childcare). It's not about genorousity it's an agreement between two adults. If there's no trust and communication and no appreciation as in "you never know if they'll come back" then no, you probably don't know if they'll come back. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh and I know full well how expensive a nanny is (I employ one) and how difficult it is to find affordable childcare but we do make certain choices and anyone who can even think about employing a nanny is in a priveleged position. If you think you've got childcare problems then give a thought to the cleaner at a posh London hotel I once read about whose husband worked nights in some equally shitty low paid job, who both had one-hour commutes and who had literally had no choice but to leave their dd on her own asleep from 5 am til half past. That's a childcare problem

Hatsoff - blunt.... but a fair point.

hatsoff and marypop1, powerful messages from you both - as I have never employed a nanny or been one myself, I can't add comments based on direct experience. I must say your arguments certainly convince me of the need for good lines of communication and a contract that clearly states what sick pay and holidays a nanny is entitled to.

I have to say, £700 a week (to me)is a frightening amount of money to pay out, so I can sympathise with this, lisalisa - and your stories of nannies abandoning you at very short notice. The more I hear about nannies, the more glad I am that I was able to have childminders for my sons.

The cost and contractual arrangements seem far more straigtforward. I knew exactly where I stood - so did the childminders I used - no nasty surprises on either side. FYI My childminder charged £20.00 for a 10 hour day (three years ago). I live in London (south east)and this was the going rate in my area. A 20 minute drive down the road into a more affluent area and childminders were charging £30.00 a day on average. I needed childcare from 8. 00 am till 6.pm and it was no problem to find childminders willing to do those hours.

I have been thinking what I would have done if I needed childcare from 7.00 am till 7.00pm or later. I came across several childminders who were prepared to do longer days than 8 - 6pm so I think, with perseverence, I might have found someone willing to work 7.00 am to 7.00 pm. Definitely many childminders were ok about an early morning drop off time. Assuming I could get the 7.00 drop off sorted out with a childminder, I would have tried finding someone (a student perhaps?)to do a 6.00 o clock pickup from the childminder and babysit at home till I returned in the evening. I have never had huge problems finding babysitters outside college hours. Paying for this and a childminder would work out much cheaper than paying for a nanny, I'd imagine.

I am not saying everyone finds it easy to get childminders - I know this varies from area to area, but FWIW this would be my solution based on where I live.

I know of plenty of childminders who can and do work shifts and overnight 7-8 whatever is required. They do charge for this but I think if you have a child overnight or for 12hr day fair enough. However I don't any around here charge more than 3.50ph. I live in Essex.

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If you pay her nationalinsurance and her tax then you are her employer if not then she is self employed and you are not entitled to pay her. Sorry i came in so late to the thread

'You're right CD of course but I wouldn't be able to afford to do it ( nanny is £70 per day so cover would be the same). I would feel ( perhaps unjustifiably) that this would encourage my nanny to take sick leave - after all if you have a cold or a bad period and know that you'll be paid why not stay in bed?

Sorry if this sounds cynical - i've employed nannies for 8 years and I've seen and heard it all. I've never actually discussed sick pay iwth my nanny and just hope it doesn't come up as we're really happy with her in all other aspects.' Quote from you on 19th January.

So 2 months ago you saw a thread commented on it but still did not discuss the issue with your nanny!

I was also not suggesting your nanny was not sick I was merely suggesting your attitute may not have been very supportive and bearing in mind the girl is in a country where she knew few people and is still learning the language needed a supportive boss. Moaning about paying her while she was sick and when she would be coming back IMHO was not a supportive action.

I'm glad and pleased for you that your nanny recommended you to another nanny. I obviously am getting a different impression of you that your nanny has.

LisaLisa, are your 'nannies' in fact nannies? As you said one was a qualified accountant and the other studying biology, so are they infact Au-pairs? Which is quite differen't. I really get fed up of people who employ nannies and then cut corners, i.e not wanting to pay full tax or something, just like their employers, nannies take their careers seriously and it's a proffession and should be treated as such.
If you can't afford a nanny you shouldn't have one.

I too am certainly glad I didn't work for ChickPea, what a horrible person you sound, your poor nanny is in hospital and then you sack her. You do realise this is illegal and she could have sued you for wrongful dismissal?

I used to work for a family and i ended up in hospital seriously ill through no fault of my own. I had to go through major surgery away from home and was very scared. Then a day before my op i had a phone call from my boss saying that they were sacking me as they were unwilling to have a temp nanny while i was off sick. So i ended up homeless and jobless whilst still in hospital so i think that some of you parents are horrid sacking a nanny for being off sick just think how you would feel if your employers did it to you, beofre you ruin someone elses livleyhood. I am sure that if some of you were seriuosly ill you would expect your nanny to work longer hours are you would not be feeling up to so try treating your nannies how you would like to be treated as WE ARE PROFESSIONALS.

To defend Lisa Lisa she did not sack her nanny/au pair. The only person who has sacked their nanny for being ill was chickpea and I think she got away very lightly not being sued.

I don't think that Lisalisa's nanny is an au pair, as she has sole charge of the children (with the assistance of an au pair). That is a nanny, not an au pair.

Sacking a nanny for being ill is in fact illegal and therefore an unwise course of action. But, it had nothing to do with Lisalisa.

You would be suprised at how many people decided to cut costs and have an aupair and call them a nanny and leave them in sole charge of their children uwila. I always say if you pay peanuts your'll get monkeys :P

That may be the offical difference between au pairs and nannies but many au pairs are given sole charge.

So, what do you believe define a nanny then? Her qualifications and experience? Or her job description?