Paying Nannies whilst sick

[lisalisa]

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My nanny was sick all week last week. Before she got sick, we had agreed that would work a few extra hours due to half term/no school. I paid her today for last week, and paid her the normal weekly rate rather than what she would have earned if she had been able to work the extra hours. Was I fair?

I think that is fair, Earlybird. Depends what your contract says though.

ChicPea is back...

I shouldn't have sounded so glib about the aforementioned nanny so to explain further, after 6 weeks of the 8 week trial period I decided to extend the trial period. She was always late, wanted to leave early to have her legs waxed, meet her mother at the airport, there was always something, etc and said she could no longer do 8.30am to 6.30pm as agreed as her boyfriend wanted his dinner ready when he got home and finishing at 6.30pm was too late. She could do 8am to 6pm. I then interviewed four other nannies but they didn't have the confidence/personality that the one on the trial period had and I decided to work around the 8-6 routine as I could see she was firm but fair and affectionate with the children and I didn't want the children to experience a change of nanny if I could work things out but said I would review things in January and she agreed with this. After two to three weeks she was ill as I explained before and she was paid in full except for the two single isolated sick days. Anyway I was busy working and trying to not have negative feelings about her, afterall she was very capable and responsible and I did appreciate that. One day I came home early ... at 3.55pm and guess what? The children were still in bed. They were 27mths and 14mths and they should have been woken up at 2.30pm. I told her that 3.55pm was far too late as they go to bed at 7.30pm and I thought she had understood. Two weeks later the same deal. I get home at 4.10pm and they have just been woken up. Concern now that I don't know what is going on.

Aside from the above she was the type that never did anything creative like baking, sticking, painting, etc with them but did want to go to various groups which I agreed to initially but didn't imagine at the time of enrolment that my children would be ill for three months due to mixing with unwell children at Crechendo, Gymboree, etc., not to mention DH and me having endless colds which left us wondering if we were ever going to be well again. I complained about this saying that she should cultivate friendships with other nannies so that she could arrange playdates with children who were well. In fact, during her nine days off my children recovered, were no longer miserable with temperatures/snot and white pussey (sp?) spots on the back of their throats. Three days after she came back to work my children were ill again. In fact, one day she came back from the doctor's surgery saying my DD had suspected impetigo on her face. Two hours later she's wheeling them out the door off to Gymboree. I asked her where she was going and she told me. I stopped her saying that it was morally wrong to take a child with suspected impetigo to such a group. Am I right or wrong?

Anyway, she was off for all the Christmas period and I enjoyed not working and looking after my children. In the January I was pleased to see her back and thought maybe it could work out after all, give it a chance, etc. I told her it would be nice to do more creative stuff at home (please give me a list for the Early Learning Ctr which never appeared) plus organise playdates but this didn't happen and then the lateness started and her arriving at 8am was not suitable for me (couldn't have breakfast alone with my children) and then she turned up saying she was ill again and at the end of the week I told her that I was going to look after my children myself. After that I was telephoned by two potential employers and I gave her a very good reference saying she was very capable, was involved in potty training, etc and only mentioned the positive aspects which is only fair. One of the mothers who called me said she had taken two bad references, one from the employer before me (I was aware of a "personality clash") and one from some time ago(lazy, bad time keeping, always on the phone) and I learnt that she decided not to employ her.

So I apologise to those MumsNetters who felt outraged that I sacked her for taking time off sick. As the above illustrates, it was a number of things that led me to terminate her employment.

Sorry so long winded.

Another thing I have learnt... from my own experience and that of friends...

if you employ a nanny or mother's help or a housekeeper on a live in basis, they are more likely to turn up for work if they are ill whereas if they are live out, they are less likely to do so even with a cold. Fact.

Marypop1, thanks for your answer. You sound like you have things sorted for you and your family, I hope it all goes well in Italy.

Will you still be posting on mumsnet? I for one would miss your valuable experience!

Chickpea, your explanation sounds reasonable.After working as a nanny myself I know a lot of girls do take the mick and want the easy way with kids, eg.letting them sleep longer,not doing creative things etc. But I also know of a lot of parents who take the mick too!
Sorry I ever doubted you were a real person and I hope you have got a nice nanny for your kids now!

Been thinking about this further...

We agreed at the beginning in September that she would take 2 weeks off at Christmas and that she had no plans to do otherwise. Four weeks into employment she announces on a Friday as she is walking out of the door that she is thinking about going to Greece for some sun. I ask "at Christmas" and she says "No, next month". Huh? "For the weekend?" I ask, "No, for a week." Double Huh? Mentally falling off my chair and I tell her I will discuss it with DH. Fuming silently at her attitude.

Decide over the weekend which day best to go to very important Trade Fair and plan to go on Wednesday. BUT also think that when I say no to week in Greece, nanny may not turn up on Wednesday so I will have to go with 2 children. So decide to go on Monday to get it done while she turns up to work. On Tuesday as she is going out of door asks me if she can go for the week and I reiterated what we had agreed and the fact that I am working and if she goes I cannot go. She says "okay" and off she goes.

Guess what? Next day I get a text saying she is too ill to come to work. Knew it would happen.

Opinions please.

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I have just read on your other thread LisaLisa that you are pregnant for the fifth time!! Many congratulations! How wonderful.

She's trying to change jobs at the same time, too. Her current employer is not very nice.

Lisa, any chance you can hang onto the current employer through the qualifying week just so you can get them to pay maternity leave? That'll piss 'em off.

BTW, Chickpea, I think your nanny deserved a swift kick out the door, and it wasn't really about being sick. The following are listed in my contract as grounds for dismissal:
"Unreliable time keeping" and "Failure to follow instructions or procedures". I think your nanny earned her walking papers on both of those grounds.

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Lisa,
You shouldn't feel that getting pregnant is cheeky. I thought that this firm hired more junior staff and hadn't done a whole lot to accommodate your requests for work? I would call that inhibiting your career. I also think that perhaps you are selling yourself a bit short. I could be wrong, but it seems they could have done more for you. There was work a while ago... that was being divided up for other people, was there not? And, didn't you say that you thought some of this was a consequence of several maternity leaves. That in my opinion constitutes "not very nice".

Oh well, I just hope for the best for you.

If I have the wrong impression about your employer than I apologise for my comments.

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Forgive my lack of political correctness (I don't have a nanny, btw), but isn't a sickly nanny a bit of an untenable situation? Surely with lots of sickness absence you would have to do within your legal powers to counsel your nanny out.

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Lisa- If you were a man whose wife was having all these babies no body would think twice about it. But, because you are a woman not only do you have to do the work in having the babies but you are also made to feel guilty about it... RUBBISH!

However, this does demonstrate one point that I would think you might want to consider. And that is that these very same thought which have occurred to you will probably also occur to your firm. So, if someone is going to percieve you as having imposed on them, it's perhaps better for that to be the company your leaving than the one you are going to. Don't know what options are in the negotiation of course (and it may be none of my business). But, you certainly don't need to apologise for being pregnant.

well clearly you did not read my posts correctly lisalisa - when did I mention double time? you are barking up the wrong tree again.If there is a union for nannies then I hope all nannies or would be nannies reading this thread join it pronto! I have also just read the current thread about childminders getting paid very poorly and people being happy to pay them less than the minimum wage....so depressing. And yes,Of course you have a legal and moral duty to be a decent employer - if your own employers are not than why perpetuate the system ?

Lisa Lisa I think the reason why I assume that my Eastern counterparts are paid less is because geneally they are. My factual basis for this is the adverts for nanny/au pairs I see (and job descriptions) and the nannies/au pairs I have met. Its good to hear your more detailed description of your circumstances so a better understanding can be made. I think your intitial comments were scant in detail and therefore norms had to be used to form a judgement, which you asked for.

Congrulations of your pregnancy, I hope all goes well. I can see why a nanny is far better option for your circumstances. A minor point to add would be how would you feel if it was your nanny that was going maternity leave? Would you pay her?

SSD, I'm very excited about my move, a little hesitant though. We have internet there as this will be how my DH will be earning his living, so I will probably still be Mnetting. Perhaps I can give an Italian view on childcare!!!!

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I agree with Marypop01, as your first posts were some what vague we went with the norm, and as said aupairs/ foreign nannies ARE generally paid less.
But I will also admit, it is frustrating for me as a English nanny that our jobs are going to yet more foreigners. I know so many desperate nannies looking for jobs, it took me 3 months to find the right job myself.
Apologies also to chickpea also, as now we understand why your nanny was sacked, nothing to do with sickness at all really, wish you had said that initially. ;)
She sounded a bit selfish, cheeky and irresponsible and I was quite shocked.

But to round it up, as others have said before, nannies just want a fair job and the same rights as everyone else. Most of us (the good ones anyway) consider it a serious proffesion so why shouldn't employers treat it as such.