Paying Nannies whilst sick

[lisalisa]

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An au pair is a person who is looking to earn about a culture and/or language by working within a family. This is their principal aim when choosing the job

A Nanny is somebody who has chosen to working with children and make a career of that. They maybe at the start of that career with little experience and maybe training or somebody with many years experience of working with children.

If you go on to the Home Office site, there is a very specific list of guidelines as to what constitutes an au pair and the main things (apart from the very limited list of countries outside of EU countries which qualify) are that au pairs must be between 17 and 27, not intending to stay in the UK for longer than two years and should only be working maximum 5 hours a day and have 2 days free per week. You are expected to treat them as part of your family and apart from accommodation and food, pay them pocket money - 55 pounds per week being a sort of recommended minimum.

Translated into real life, this means that if you are using the term "au pair" in its correct sense, you cannot depend on them for lengthy spells of childcare if e.g. you are working fulltime. Their childcare experience is limited and as someone else said, what do you expect for that amount of money?

Of course, lots of people bend the rules, pay their au pairs something extra and leave them in sole charge, if not fulltime, at least some of the time. Hey, if that's what you are happy to do - fine.

Much as I like the thought of being able to have cheap childcare for my 2 ds, the reality is that I am paying a nanny most of my salary even though ds1 is at school until 3.15 and ds2 is at pre-school each morning until 12.15. However, the remaining hours are just too many for me to consider having someone inexperienced looking after them and I have to wonder how much enthusiasm, care and experience I could expect for my 55 pounds?

Very well explained and very good points made.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I can see that by definition, au pairs are from other countries. but as a matter of interest, can I ask why you employ nannies from outsie the country? One thing that ocurred to me (perhaps relevant to your difficult experiences with 'disappearing nannies' is that professional and experienced nannies in this country rely on good references, with future employers often advised to telephone a previous family. How do you interview nanny from abroad?

My nanny is Hungarian and I employ her because she is slightly cheaper than a UK one (not by much!) Obviously, she also has experience and she looks after my children well! I also found in interviewing that non-UK nannies were more willing to help out around the house. I don't expect our nanny to do loads of housework but she has several hours free each day when both ds's are at school so it's a bit of a lifesaver that she is willing do some hoovering or dusting or do an emergency run to Tesco.

With regards to references, I was lucky that our nanny was already in the country and had been an au pair here so was able to have a lengthy chat with her previous employer and also someone she had babysat for. She was also a friend of a nanny employed by some friends. TBH, I don't know what I would do if I had to rely on written refs from another country or phoning someone who could turn out to be the prospective nanny's sister masquerading as a mother of three!

What line of work are you in, ChicPea? Don't you find it hard to recruit people? Personally, I would never accept a job somewhere where sickpay was discretionary. The danger is always that someone will refuse to pay you when you need it most- as it sounds like you did to your flu ridden nanny! Poor woman. Surely no one half way sensible would take a job on this basis? Am afraid that I suspect that your employees must either desperate for work or naive or vulnerable in some other way. Please say it ain't so and that you are more compassionate than your previous post suggests!

I'm not in UK, but have employed nannies from Eastern Europe (current nanny is Czech) for the same reason as AnnH. I've also spent a large part of my adult life in Eastern Europe (and great grandparents were from there) so I feel very comfortable with them. I've found that years of experience are certainly equal to an NNEB or whatever it's called now.

I'd pay sick leave. If I thought they were taking the micky, I'd have a word with them (eg if it was every Monday morning). I also had to pay maternity leave for one of my nannies which crippled us financially as we were essentially paying twice for childcare. There was no way round it - we just had to grit our teeth and do it.

I'm sure you already know my opinion on this (have expressed it often enough) but here goes

The sick pay part of the pay for the nanny is a part of the overall cost of employing a nanny. If you can't afford it, then you can't afford a nanny and should think of alternative childcare options. Put some money aside each month to cover it and should she not be sick then you have the money.

To expect to be paid sick pay yourself and not pay it to a nanny is very harsh.

Presumably your nanny earns less than you do so can afford the unpaid sick leave even less than you can.

I agree, CD
We just had to dig into our savings for the maternity pay (luckily we had some) - good idea about putting some away each month to cover this eventuality.

However, I did refuse to give an advance of pay for cosmetic dentistry or a boob job (and I kid you not...)

My nanny called last night to say she is ill, and won't be able to come in today. Without a moment's hesitation, I know that I will pay her for today. It's the fair and decent thing to do.

One other note - I interviewed some girls for our nanny position that were not English. I chose to go with an English girl because:

1. I know/understand the system for training/qualification.

2. I could check references

3. She knows how things work here. In a worst case scenario, she would be able to take dd to doctor/hospital (knows where to go, how to get there, how the system works, etc). In day to day life, she knows where the parks are, how to go to the museums, about tumbletots/dance class/swimming lessons, etc. In short, an English girl seemed best equipped to function here in a way that could benefit me and dd.

No wonder our proffession isn't taken seriously, no sick pay, begrduge paying maternity pay, I wonder if you would accept a job on the same terms as you are offering your 'nannies'. Do you let them eat lunch at your house or do you expect them to wait and eat when they finally get home too?
Good post EarlyBird, you sound a great person to work for. Perhaps if LisaLisa had payed that little bit extra for a English nanny she wouldn't have had the problems she had, with her 'nannies' going back home and not coming back, especially with childcare not even being there chosen proffession.

I would not have begrudged paying maternity pay in the least if she had been a good nanny - I have paid maternity pay for a cleaner before. I was on the verge of sacking her for being foul to my children (see the legacy of the evil nanny thread for some of what she did) and for being deceitful. I was told that I couldn't sack her -legally - while she was pregnant as she could sue for discrimination, regardless of what she had done.

Speaking as a former nanny in central London and abroad, the issue of sick pay is very interesting.

But as I've stated on previous posts, the person taking care of your most cherished possesions (if that makes sense!)is very very important to you and should be treated as such.She has got your kids all day, and would YOU go the extra mile for an employer who treated you fairly or one who tried to cut corners and thought you were just a commodity to treat depending on your mood at the time?

If you think getting cheap, foreign childcare and treating her like a slave is the answer,don't be surprised when your kids are the ones who suffer, as they have a person looking after them who is disillusioned and unhappy....

I think that foreign nannies can have some advantages and some drawbacks. People don't hire them just because they long to be slave owners (which isn't legal anyway). I have an Estonian nanny. This has the benefit of exposing my children to another culture (including bu not limited to a forgeign language. This may be percieved as good. For example, I would probably like for DD to learn the Russian alphabet. However, whe "vodka socks" were suggested to lower her fever a few months ago I about fell over in shock. For anyone who is not familiar with them, vodka sock are an Estonian remedy for bringing down a fever. You take a pair of cotton sock and dip them into a 50/50 solution of voka and water. Put them on, and them put on a pair of dry wool socks over them. This was suggested to me in complete seriousness. It was all I could do to keep a straight face as I muttered the phrase "over my dead body".

Uwila, that is priceless! I must try it on myself (and drink the vodka afterwards methinks)

Your nanny is much less expensive than an english one though isn't she, I seem to remember you saying.

Personally I can't see that it makes any difference where your nanny is from as long as she adores your kids and is a suitable person.

I agree it doesn't matter where your nanny/au pair or whatever is from but it might affect her motivation and expections of the job.

Here's another thought - dd has been frequently sick this winter with everything from colds, to sore throat, to tummy bugs, to bad cough, and now a serious ear infection....and I know, in turn, that I have been sick far more than before, possibly because I have been exposed to her germs. It is possible (and probable) that our nannies get sick because they are around our sick children. It is fair to deny them their pay? I don't think so.....

Earlybird - Good point. Perhaps the Nannies should be made to carry, with their references, a list of all illnesses they have contracted and a list of things they are consequently immune to! Then the one with longest immunity list could get the job!!

cd - how are you going to drink the vodka - are you going to suck it out of the socks? yum.

I was actually wondering how much of the alcohol is absorbed through the skin. Sure some of it must be. And what is the pupose of the wool socks? To keep the alcohol from evaporating, hence making it available ofr absorption?

My goodness! As some of you may know from reading other recent threads of mine, I plan to let this nanny go when I begin maternity leave at the end of May. Telling the vodka socks story reminds me why it's a good idea to let her go. It;s a shame really because she does actually have some really good qualities, but they unfortunately don't outweight the bad one which have recently surfaced.

I've heard of using an alcohol rub to cool a fever-I expect it would work you know!

Uwila check this out OMG!

It's won't be absorbed through the skin, it will evaporate making the skin cool. The extra layer would slow down the evaporation so the cooling effect lasts longer....but I prefer Calpol for my kid's fevers , the vodka is reserved for me!