New Au Pair expects to go to language class every day -

[starbucksaholic]

Am I being unreasonable to say 'no way, once a week' - au pair now in tears (for second time in 2 days since she arrived) about this, not sure how much to stand my ground. Help?!

I'm not sure why language courses are supposed to be free - the APs we deal with don't do free courses - they go to the Sorbonne or to the Alliance Française here in Paris, or to private language schools in England (of which there are literally thousands - best to follow the British Council's recommendations).

Obviously the logistics of having an au pair will be very much complicated if she/the family are trying to wangle a freebie for the language course.

LOL
you try finding a AP who wants to or a family who can afford to pay for private language courses on top of the £100 a week, the car insurance, the phone bill, the extra food etc, etc, etc
Private language courses cost a fortune! and the family don't have to pay for the courses anyway, they can contribute if the want. So if you find your AP a language course you have spent hours (and it does take that) doing them a massive favour!

I only know about APs who do private courses - there are really a lot of them around you know . And they usually expect to pay the course fees for themselves - certainly all the English girls and boys coming to Paris do, no question. But the families aren't expecting the au pair to drive so car insurance isn't an issue, nor are phone bills these days with internet telephone.

Around here, language classes are twice a week - 2x 3-hour lessons.

A fundamental part of being an aupair is going to language classes.

you are only talking about AP's from the UK and France though.....What about all the other EU countries? Do you think any of the EE AP's can afford that?

The trouble, Ingles2, is that the "au pair" arrangement when not brokered by any kind of intermediary who vets both the family and the au pair and brokers a (albeit totally standard) agreement, quickly degenerates into an arrangement whereby the family tries to get domestic help on the cheap and the au pair tries to learn English on the cheap. When both parties can't quite afford what they would really wish for, both tend to end up dissatisfied.

blueshoes, I'm intrigued too. Surely even if there is a contract, the terms including whether or not to attend English classes are up to the parties?

ingles, your point about all the work for the host mother is a good one. I posted on here at the beginning of the summer about our prospective au pair. I was very worried about it, for good reason, as it was a complete disaster and she left after a week. While she was here, I felt very much like I was the one doing her a favour. 5 hours a day (which only amounted to ironing and sitting in front of the TV with the children) seemed like very little to me in return for £60 a week, a safe, secure environment, full board and lodging with all the hidden costs of this and the general aggravation of having a stranger in your house.

Anna, I'm interested as to why you work on a voluntary capacity on behalf of au pairs? I do think this gives a slightly biased view. There has to be some flexibility about the classes, for example because the school test them and might put them in class which is completely unsuitable for the host family. In reality, there will lots of changes and flexibility (in my case, I was hoping for someone to look after my one year old but this didn't happen at all as he screamed every time she went near him) and the au pair needs to be flexible too.

It's a university arrangement.

Evangelina - you highlight the problem. You thought you were giving your AP a lot. She felt like she was getting very little.

An AP who is not attending regular, good language classes is extremely likely to end up feeling put upon/exploited as all she will be doing is rather dull domestic work for very little reward (pocket money). If she is doing proper language classes and making good progress, that is her reward (as it always is supposed to be).

nope, you are totally wrong and totally biased Anna, most people I have met and just about every MNetter I've spoke with over the years has tried to organise a fair deal for both AP and family with our without an agency,.. you are so completely wrong it's untrue.
However I can tell you of a number of agencies who have taken a large sum of money from me for an AP placement and have done absolutely nothing for it.

25 hours is the norm for aupairs in the UK. 30 hours would make them an aupair plus.

Our area has loads of aupair classes (they start at 9.30am, so you can get the school run out of the way). It is really preferable for aupair to attend these classes, because they get to meet other girls in their situation - instant friends.

We've had a few aupairs who have been fluent in English and not attended classes. It was a good set-up for us when we had a child in half-day nursery, which is not compatible with English classes. But since it is so much harder to make friends, they tend not to stick around for more than a term.

25 hours is the norm for aupairs in the UK. 30 hours would make them an aupair plus.

Our area has loads of aupair classes (they start at 9.30am, so you can get the school run out of the way). It is really preferable for aupair to attend these classes, because they get to meet other girls in their situation - instant friends.

We've had a few aupairs who have been fluent in English and not attended classes. It was a good set-up for us when we had a child in half-day nursery, which is not compatible with English classes. But since it is so much harder to make friends, they tend not to stick around for more than a term.

Ingles2 - I am not wrong. If the raison d'être for an au pair is to learn English (or French or whatever the language of the country is) by attending English classes, it is completely necessary for the family to ensure that she will be able to follow those classes satisfactorily in order for her stay to be a success, from her POV.

If the family only wishes to consider its own childcare needs itneeds to employ a nanny who will be available all day (but who will also cost a lot more).

There is also demi-pair (very popular here in Paris) where the girl gets no pocket money at all, just board and lodging, in return for 12-15 hours work per week.

Anna you are wrong, and biased...
As I understand it your AP experience is for University Exchange AP's coming from the and to the UK.... Is that right?

Students aged between 18 and 23-ish. Not all university students, but will be or have been if not currently (but this is hardly unusual for young people).

Actually Anna I think you would find it is unusual in many EU AP's! Do you really think girls coming from Poland, or Czech Republic are Uni Educated and can afford private lessons?
I'm going to leave this discussion now because actually your experience is so limited it's practically non existent.

Of course they are - there are students from Eastern European countries in private language schools all over the place. You are obviously unaware that there is a huge issue going on right now in English language schools because French/Germans/Spaniards/Italians are very unhappy about the high numbers of Eastern European students on residential courses. French students are currently asking for a guarantee not only of under 20% of other French speakers but also of no more than 20% Russian speakers.

Are you implying that you employ uneducated girls from Poland/Czech Republic at knock down rates to take care of your children?

LOL
In all my years of having an AP (which has been many) from all sorts of EU countries (mainly Germany, Poland, Romania, Czech Republic, Spain) I have never had 1 who has gone on to further education nor have been offered one.....
and Definitely not knocked down prices here don'cha know...lap of luxury all the way.....

Uni Exchange 'aupairs' are a totally different kettle of fish IMO. I have a nearby university that is always on the lookout for host families. If I was approached by the uni to take on a student who would 'remunerate' me in kind (ie childcare and housework), rather than cash, then of course it goes without saying that this student must be allowed to attend all the classes they need as that is the main reason why they are in the country to begin with.

As the risk of generalisation, I do think French aupairs' English tends to be on the poorer side and I can understand their need for intensive lessons. But as a host family, my need is for good English and hence I would never take on a uni exchange English course 'aupair'.

There is a suitable family for every aupair. I take it upon myself as my responsibility in loco parentis to ensure that our profiles match as much as possible. Not all aupairs require English lessons and if they do, not want to do or afford intensive private lessons.

Anna, if aupair rights arise by contract, I agree rights can arise verbally, not just in writing. Even if the aupair mentioned she would be taking english lessons, I would also have told her what the working hours are (specifically a 3 pm pickup). So unless all the details are hammered out in advance (which it cannot as I have explained re: ESOL courses), there is a grey area contractually if the aupair wants everyday classes that interfere with the 3 pm pickup. In practice, I specifically query my potential aupairs about whether they want english language courses, explain the estimated cost and time commitment of ESOL classes and how to get to them, the difference from private classes and how they are going to fund the classes. This way I avoid any misunderstadings.

anna is not wrong she is completely right, there is an international au pair charter (or something) that states the au pair should be attending english lessons as part of the deal. Of course no one has to stick to this but given its existence an ap is perfectly entitled to think she is going to attend english classes every day and be upset if she's not
AU PAIRS ARE NOT CHEAP NANNIES, though sooo many people - usually not mnetters - don't seem to understand this, or choose not to understand it

Sure, I believe your experience. It really isn't universal - the families and APs we match up are only interested in meeting people with a high level of achievement and ambition (both parties).

Out of interest, are you happy leaving your children in the care of girls with that level of education/aspiration? Did they all attend English classes or not?

blueshoes - I am not talking about university exchange students - the APs are attending language classes, not university courses. Those language classes have fixed hours (but are at least 4 days a week, with an exam at the end).

OMG Anna!!!!!!
Read back your last sentence...!!!!! that sounds dreadful!
Are you really suggesting a girl (or boy) who may not have huge academic aspirations are somehow "inferior" and not quite "top notch" enough to look after the dc's!
so,..common sense, kindness, empathy, fun are insufficient then?

And yes,I've actually made all but 1 of my AP's attend college. some didn't want to but quickly realised it was the way to make a decent social life

I wouldn't leave my children in the care of someone who didn't speak excellent English and didn't have a high level of education. That would be a compromise too many.

I might leave them in the care of someone whose English/French was not great (but who was learning) but who was clever and articulate in her own language.

I might leave them with someone of English or French mother-tongue and culture who wasn't very bright but a good childcarer.