Me again! Thinking about telling my newly employed nanny that she can no longer have the job!

[ziopin]

Hi,

I'm thinking about telling the new nanny that she can't have the job now!

I'd verbally offered her the job (not signed contracts yet) and she has accepted it, but that was before I found out she was getting married, and needed 2 1/2 weeks off term time - but hadn't told me at the interview.

I have been trying to sort out something for these weeks - but have been uable to fill this time (I don't really want a temp nanny and my Mum is away during these weeks)

Will it be ok if I withdraw the offer?

bozza...

the point i want to make (and not sure i made it that well) is that when you have a nanny there will (probably) be times when your nanny cant work, for example i was involved in a big car crash and then had to have 2 weeks off, just 2 weeks before id been off for most of the week with my dad (and the week before that was my annual leave holiday (their choice)) so as parents you need to be able to work out some form of cover for those type of situations when at very short / no notice at all, your nanny cant be there.

(in 5 weeks i worked 1 week & 2 days!, but the 1st week off of that was annual leave, and none of us knew what lie ahead)

NannyL, whilst I feel that your point is 100% valid (and offer my sympathy for what happened) I think that the run of time off you experienced was not only exceptional circumstances, they were unplanned.

A wedding/honeymoon is in no way unplanned, it is quite the opposite. No-one is saying the nanny shouldn't have time of for it but its a stretch of the imagination to believe she only 'suddenly' remembered her honeymoon when the job had been offered to her.

true missiesparkles

but a wedding/holiday must be easier to cover as the mb has notice,in this case 4mths to find someone for 2 weeks

in nannyl case, obv the car accident wasnt planned and therefore her mb needed to make childcare arrangements there and then iykwim

i do find it hard that the nanny didnt mention her plans/get excited etc at interview

if she took those 2 weeks off unpaid,would that make a difference as you are offereing 10 weeks hols anyway, and then the money would cover a temp/friend etc - but obv you still have the same problem that the children wouldnt know this temp for 2 weeks

I have been a temp nanny and to try and set your mind at rest, I have gone to many famillies with different aged children from 4mth babies to 13yrs, babies/toddlers are happy as long as they get play/fed etc

an older child would prob enjoy having someone new for a few days, and sure would tellyou if any problems with the temp

i agree with you too misie sparkles...

and yes i DO think nanny should have been front abotu it a bit earlier but it is her wedding and probably planned months even years ago, and i think its a bit odd that you find the 'perfect' nanny and then dont want to offer her a job because she is getting married and has her honeymoon booked already!

Maybe the nanny isnt that perfect at all and its a good excuse to choose to look for another one? (a fair point IMO) in which case doing so before contracts are sigend etc would be the best time for both parties.

I think most parents who have (or have found) a super nanny would do anything to keep them though.....

and what if a while doen the line she gets pregnant and wants some time of for maternity leave? what then?

I think not employing someone because you cant cover their 2 weeks leave 4 MONTHS in advance is a bit silly because there are times when you are likely to need cover so it might be a good oppertunity to work out how you would cope if / when it happens again

(can i just add given she has 12 weeks holiday i dont think she needs to be paid for her 2 weeks hoenymoon)

The nanny wasn't honest in interview, bit of a crappy start. If she were already employed then YABU, as there is no proper employment I would find someone else.

It's a little sneaky of her not to mention it till she was offered the job. I once had a nanny who did this to me. Not a honeymoon but a series of events that meant she couldn't do the days I needed (all had been well at the interview). I was prepared to go along with it, thinking of alternatives for those days. And then I thought, "Sod it. I'm up to my eyes in work right now. I don't need this." And I let her go.

And, NannyL, parents will often bend over backwards for a good, well loved, well trusted nanny. But it's bad form to do what this girl did. She hasn't got the track record to ask for favours.

Hi everyone getting heated in here this afternoon!

First off the bat, to the OP Ziopin, I work as a part time nanny and also offer an ad-hoc childcare service. I live in Bristol and if you are local I could possibly cover the dates that your potential new nanny could not work, for more info see my website www.hayleyevans.co.uk. Or as NannyL has suggested your potential new nanny may have some suitable nanny friends (still check references, paperwork etc regardless) that could cover the period of her honeymoon.

I do think that it is a tad unacceptable for her not to have mentioned the honeymoon maybe there were cross wires & she though it wouldn't be a problem. Either way is it something I think you should can her for? No. Good childcare is hard to find, and if you really like this nanny and your gut instinct is that she would be good for you and your family then you should ride it out. Obviously if she does something like this again then it is totally out of order but for now I would give her the benefit of the doubt.

Some people are saying that NannyL sounds quite angry and to be honest comments like, "I think your post reaffirms how cushioned some nannies are from the real world of working", by soapbox don't exactly help. First off implying that a nanny's job isn't real work! Secondly presuming that nanny's have no experience of what soap box would term a "real" job and lastly suggesting that NannyL is lucky to have her job when in reality she may be a terrific nanny all what happened to her was just a series of unfortunate events AND either way what happened to NannyL isn't a sackable offence - for a nanny or someone in a "real" job.

I think I would be a bit cross too if Soapbox had aimed that comment in my direction. Whilst I agree that some workers "have it good", I wouldn't say this perk is confined to the role of a Nanny also I would suggest that it is wise not to sneer at those that may have something more favourable in comparison to your lot. I'm sure soapbox didn't mean it offensively but in the world of the internet when all we have to go on is letters on a screen, it would do some people a bit of good to think before they type.

Rant over x

well i still think that nannyL is missing the point as she is talking about the family not beeing able to find a cover for tha nannys honeymoon while the problem is the nanny not mentioning the honeymoon. also cant see why nannyL is repeating over and over what happened to her and that she had to have so and so much time off. irrelevant.

difficult to judge whether this nanny would otherwise be a perfect fit and you should try to work aroung her honeymoon or just let her go as this might be an attitude think. good luck whatever you choose to do.

Mum also mentioned the fact that this honeymoon is only 5 weeks after the new nanny starts (she doesn't start til Sept) - so the children would just be settling down with her and then would have a temp nanny in for 2 weeks then Mum at home for 1 week (half term) and the new nanny back again. Quite an upheaval for the little ones - it could unsettle tem quite a lot. May have been a bit different if this nanny had been around for 6 months or so but not this early into a new job.

I'm going to sit on the fence over this one and point out that if I were Ziopin I would just be glad I can make up my own mind, unhindered by any legal repercussions.

NKF, did you come up against anything like this? Ie paying notice or stuff? Just trying to work out what the legal repercussions would be.

Silly question here but at any stage ziopin have you actually asked the nanny if she meant to tell you about the honeymoon, or just forgot to mention it! just that it worries me that you are getting all this advice from mumnetters but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to go out for a coffee explain your worries, be honest and see if you could sort this out between the two of you, absolutely nothing is worth losing a good nanny for. I am a nanny and am starting a new job soon, while going for interviews i would have in my head all the things i would like to mention, but sometimes whist talking i would remember that i need to say something but the subject changes and i forget what i meant to mention earlier, after all we are all human. You obviously like her so give her a chance, have a chat and sort it out!!

good point cake!!

OP has said several times she likes the nanny, and as I said its hard to find a good nanny( there are a few of us about) so if everything else is ok, then be good to talk

if she had mentioned the honeymoon, would you be more willing to try and work something out?

or if there was no honeymmon, would you still employ her - i know you mentioned she doesnt drive and would need to take bus to and from nursery (but as you offered her the job, and new this, ) it cant be THAT a big deal for her not to drive iykwim

or is it really that you think she MIGHT forget other things?

The Op is a teacher right. Imagine if she went to aninterview in a school, was offered the job with set holidays, then turned around and said, oh by the way I am getting married in term time I need 2 weeks off, you (the school) will have to get supply in.)

The school would withdraw their offer.

The OP made it clear upfront there was NO term time holiday.

Therefore the OP is not being unreasonable to refuse the holiday request.

A school secretary I know who had been in the job for many years resigned as the head (quite resonably refused a holiday in term time request) It had been made very clear previously that no term time holidays were allowed.

Any employer is allowed to refuse holiday requests for any reason.

islandofsodor - it depends - most schools/employers would reliese they would have to honour any holidays pre booked - but i see your point

Only if disclosed at interview. The employer/school could then decide whether or not to honour the holiday.

The other thing is though what happens if the nanny is ill on top of these two weeks in term time. Shortly after returning from my honeymoon I was off work for a week with a kidney infection.

So, yes, the unexpected can happen and I do realise that having used a childminder for the last three years and having had to work round when she hurt her back and when her Mum died but then adding in the holidays in term time on top.

Although actually I prefer my CM to take term time holidays because it is easier to get someone to have DS before/after school than all day. But my CM has chosen two weeks in the summer hols that are a different two weeks to our own hols so I will be working round that.

you are all forgetting that every job is different and that circumstances are different for every one, some people don't like giving and on the other hand some people don't like taking you have got to get the balance right it's all about giving and taking, there is no right nor wrong it's about what makes everyone happy, it wouldn't work if you can't give and take on either the nanny and employers side it's about how to make a happy medium!!! You can't talk about what may happen if the nanny was ill in term time, no-body knows, so what would happen if a teacher was ill? The school sorts it out and no harm done!!

NannyL, there are a few nont so trivial differences between your situation and ziopin's:
1- Your bosses are (presumably wealthy) doctors and can afford to pay someone else when you are not there.
2- Your bosses do not work strictly term time themselves.
3- You are already their employee. And they therefore have an existing relationship and responsibility to look after your welfare.
4- All of things that have happened to you have been unforseeable and out of your control.
5- You have not deceived your bosses.

Ziopin's situation is very different. And I suspect her potential nanny shares your view on nanny entitlement or she would not have dropped this in as "Oh by the way, forgot to mention at interview..." I think potential nanny thinks this time off is rightfully hers. Wonder what other time off she might hold the same attitude towards?

Ziopin, have you got any chance of doing a live in? I can't remember hold old your kids are. Are they in school?

um, if she didn't tell you she needed the 2 weeks off, during term time, sort of is a deal breaker?

All these points about whether you can rescind the contract applies only really if it goes to court.

Why don't you just tell her that the 2 weeks are a big deal and unless she has a solution, you'll have to find someone else?

I don't think you are being unreasonable. It would be a different issue if she was already working for you and she needed to take the holiday. You would have planned for it.

I don't think I could afford a live in

I'm gonna have to tell her that she can't have the 2 weeks, and leave it up to her!

Thanks for all your fantastic responses once again, don't know what I'd do without you! xx

ilovemydog - you say if the nanny to be has a solution - what would this be? a friend of hers to have the children - but Ziopin doesnt want that - as I am sure nanny wouldnt cancel her honeymoon therefore if there cant be any compromise to be had and Ziopin would have to start her search again

as i said before, as job is to start in sept, there are only 2 months till then, and many nannies i know have to give 6/8weeks notice AND Ziopin still has to advertise/interview/check ref etc

PLUS new nanny MAY have a holiday booked in term time, I often go away then as costs so much less, plus I dont want to have a holiday with lots of children about - LOVE kids dearly but not on my holiday so the same problem may occur

"I don't think I could afford a live in "

But, surely a live-in is cheaper than a live-out.

I was going to say, surely the only issue with a live-in is whether you have room/are happy with someone else living with you? In terms of cost it's quite a bit cheaper, no?

I only need a nanny part time - 20 hours a week, so wouldn't make sense to have a live in (plus the fact we are cooped up like rabbits as it is !)