Me again! Thinking about telling my newly employed nanny that she can no longer have the job!

[ziopin]

Hi,

I'm thinking about telling the new nanny that she can't have the job now!

I'd verbally offered her the job (not signed contracts yet) and she has accepted it, but that was before I found out she was getting married, and needed 2 1/2 weeks off term time - but hadn't told me at the interview.

I have been trying to sort out something for these weeks - but have been uable to fill this time (I don't really want a temp nanny and my Mum is away during these weeks)

Will it be ok if I withdraw the offer?

OK, I can see both sides of this.

Had you stipulated that holidays must be taken in school holidays, or something similar?

Can you and your dp/h take leave to cover her absence, and might she agree to unpaid leave?

No, can do that as we are both teachers.

Had stipulated that only school holidays could be taken in interview (she didn't inform me of her wedding plans until I had agreed to give her the job [hmmm])

That should read 'cant do that....'

I remember reading your original thread.

Has something else happened that has led you to this decision? I remember that you were really pleased with her until she mentioned that she was needing some time off for her honeymoon. Did you speak to her about it? Did you tell her that she would have to have time off for that unpaid as it was outside of school holidays?

It seems a shame that you haven't been able to sort it. Why are you against a temp nanny? Most temp nannies are great at slotting in quickly. They are used to adjusting quickly to different childrens and families needs.

My understanding is that a verbal offer is legally binding (although harder to prove). Having said that, if it was clear that the contract was to include holidays in school holidays only, then she would be in breach anyway. So I think you can pull out without any repercussions, but I'm not a legal or hr person, so don't take my word for it!

Having said that, it can be hard to find a good nanny, and if she was fine in all other respects then you might find it easier in the long run to find a childminder or nanny to cover temporarily. Do you have another suitable candidate?

Withdrawing an offer is technically a breach of contract but you'd be fine.

Wouldn't it be simpler just to say she can't have the time off, then she will refuse the job herself, presumbly. You are within your rights to refuse holiday requests so just say no and leave the ball in her court.

Oh, I don't want to be mean, as I really do like the girl, but logistically I don't think it will work out

presumably

How is it mean? If you can't meet her holiday request you can't meet it - you've tried your best. Just explain to her that you have tried as hard as you can to sort something out but you are unable to do so, and therefore you will not be able to give her that time off. Say you are very sorry and will understand if she feels she wants to decline the offer as a result.

Can grandparents not help out - do you realy want to do the whole interview process again - what would you say if you were offered a new job verbally, you then told them you were getting married and they said sorry you can't have the job!

Time off usually has to be agreed with the employer. If you back to her and say that she can't have holiday during term time (as stipulated in the interview), then it's up to her to either cancel the honeymoon (which she won't) or turn the job down.

Just tell her what you've told us, that you have tried to arrange cover but you can't and you will understand if she is unable to accept the job as it would mean cancelling the honeymoon.

Agree that a good way to approach this is to re-confirm with her that holiday can not be taken during term-time, thus she will either have to change her honeymoon date (unlikely) or not accept the job.
Do this verbally at this point. With luck she will decide that she does not want to accept the job on the terms under which it is offered.

Personally i would not want to work for anyone who wouldnt let me have my honeymoon off

I read your original thread and i feel that ys you are being completely unreasonable.

Us nannies are human too.... we get married / have babys / get ill / have car crashes / have holidays etc in the same way that everyone else does.

To not employer a nanny because of a honey moon is IMO unbelievable

in the past year i have had time off due to dentist ruining my tooth [extream pain emotion]
Norovirus (given to me when my 4 year old charge vomited all over me twice, and everyone in the entire hosue got it)
My Dad had a stroke, so i needed to be in hospital with him....
and then i was in a nasty car crash (10 days after my dads stroke, and during those 10days my bosses own father died ) so i ahd anotehr couple of weeks off after my car crash

If Id have been your nanny woud you have sacked me for not being avaliable to you?

My bosses have been 100% supportive (even when my dad was ill etc while their own dad was dieing and they needed me more than ever)

I have been paid all my wages

and id NEVER work for anyone who thinks its unreasonable for me to have a honeymoon!

nannyl I think you fail to understand the OP's pov.

This is a potential employee who withheld information until she hoped it was 'too late' for ziopin to change her mind.

Ziopin will be left in the shit if she employs this nanny.

Parents are human too. Teachers have a responsibility toward their students. Ziopin doesn't want to take time off work if she can help it.

nannyl, it htink your post just reaffirms how cushioned some nannies are from the real world of working.

If you had an attendance record such as that in almost any company you would be looking at dismissal or at least a warning.

It therefore stands to reason that anyone employing a nanny with a poor attendance record is putting themselves in a very precarious position with their employers.

What exactly do you think the OP should do while the nanny is off on honeymoon - just not turn up to work?

It would be the fact that she didn't mention it at interview, that would be bother me... She obviously knew!

nannyL at no point did ziopin say she thought it was 'unreasonable' for her nanny to have a honeymoon!

What she said was despite not having been told this when she should have been, she still did her utmost to be able to accommodate this nanny's (late) request, trying all options for alternative childcare during that time. Ziopin was unable to sort anything out and is therefore not able to give the time off to the nanny.

There is nothing unreasonable about that and there is nothing saying she thinks it's unreasonable of a nanny to get married, have a honeymoon, or any of the things you mention.

Soap box

until this yeari have never had a day off in my life (8 years) I think my attendnace record is actually fantastic

sorry but i cant work when im throwing up with norovirus, (tbh i found it a huge effort to even pick up the phone next to my bed)

OR when i have just come out of hospital in a car crash where i very nearly broke my neck

Also to add my solicitors will be claiming back all my wages on behalf of my bosses from the guy who crashed me's insurance (which is my decision)

THEY sent me off to the dentist (and im pleased they did)

As for getting rid of me they couldnt....
my bosses could NOT legally get rid of me for being in a car crash, then being signed off by Dr and they were more than happy for me to support my Dad

My mum is manager in her buildig society branch... she has an employee who has been with them about 10 years. In that time she has had over 90 (yes 90) periods of absence.... and almost all of those 90 periods have been longer than a week, even 2 weeks (she gets lots of 'real' 'flu') and they can not legally get rid of her!.... they have looked very hard into it.
(its all backed up with Drs notes etc)

If you asked my bosses about my attendance they would not say anything even slightly negative!
Also my bosses are Drs and would not have even let me come in! In there opinion of a Dr signs you of you do not work, end of.

Maybe the nanny should have mentioned it at interview (hindsite is a great thing) but i still maintian it is NOT unreasonable for a persomon to get married and have a honey moon and you should not let it effect your decision on a choice of nanny

Because your children are your responsibilty, and even if you have a nanny, your nanny is a living human being, and despite best intentions there will be situations when she cant make it in, and as parents its up to you to sort it and have cover) (not your nanny, to worry about it)

If she is otherwise perfect for the job can't you make other arrangements for that 2 week period?

It would be a shame to turn her down if she may - for the rest of her time with you - be perfect for your family. After all she's only ever going to have one honeymoon (hopefully!)

In answer to what woudl i suggest....

well most people have someone else who can help out

grandparenst / friends / aunts / uncles.

Also msot nannies have nanny friends.... Im more than happ to have my nanny friends charges occasionaly if their own nanny cnat make it in due to illness and holidays.

Most of my personal nanny friends work less than 5 days (myself included) soif your nanny has a good network of nanny friends you should probably fnd it quite easy for one of her nanny friends to fill in randomly in their days off (as I do for a few of my nanny friends when they go away. and my bosses could always ask then too)

I know the houses and children and routines of many of my nanny friends charges almost as well as their own nanny (and vice versa) does

I cant see how it could be that difficult to find someone to care for your child for a few days.

NannyL - I'm sure your record is exemplary. But would you pretend you didn't have a couple of weeks off that had already been booked until you'd been offered a job? Or be honest upfront? Because it's strikes me that this is the real issue here

NannyL, you work for a family who realise you are a person?

Still missing the point nannyl.

Imagine you're looking to employ a builder. The one you quite like will be away for 2 weeks in the middle of the job, leaving you in the shit, and you will have to employ someone else to do the job whilst the builder is away. The nature of the building job is such that it can't be left undone for 2 weeks.

WWYD?

Nobody is saying a nanny having a honeymoon is unreasonable. What 'should' affect Ziopin's decision is up to her and no doubt dictated by her circs (of which we know little) and her budget.

You sound quite angry, as if you have a problem with people who employ nannies. Maybe you have been quite taken advantage of in the past.

Prioritising her potential employee over her responsibilities as a parent and teacher is senseless. There is a difference between the unavoidable - ie sickness, family disasters - and the avoidable - employing someone who comes with a request that is difficult to fulfil.

And you assume, nannyl, Ziopin would be happy to employ a friend of this nanny - plus she has already said she doesn't want a temp nanny.

NannyL - there are ways to sack someone who has had an unreasonable amount of time off work.
A former company that I worked for had an absence policy - with each absence you had a meeting and would be put on a 'level' - after 3 absences in a 6 month period (be they 1 day or 3 weeks) a level 1 - and with subsequent absences going up to level 4 after which you could be sacked - this is whether you have a doctors certificate or not.

Your reasons for time off were all valid and you have employers that value you. 8 years with no time off is excellent and you obviously had a bad run last year. BUT if you needed to look for a job in the next few months a lot of employers would see those absences and decide that they might not want to risk employing you. Most Mums have a nightmare finding emergency childcare - unless you have local family (that do not work) or unless you have loads of money and can use an agency and have children that would not be severely disrupted by suddenly having a stranger come to take care for them.