Should parents pay nanny's for the nanny to take them out?

[NannyL24]

Can I have some advise please I started working as a registered nanny for a nurse last September due to cold weather and dark nights and alot of evening shifts I haven't needed to take the children out and they haven't wanted to they've been happy enough staying home playing outside with friends and playing games with me and other games they already have. However with it becoming warmer and the holidays I have said from day one of starting I am happy to take the two (6 years old and 8) to museums, bowling, cinema, parks etc. However this was recently brought up and the parent said I could get paid back this via tax which wouldnt be while a year later on a tax return and i doubt daily outings can be given back, I have said no to this due to working for an Income and not funding the children for a year out of my wages. Are parents meant to pay for their own children outings and even my costs as I am working? Just need some advise with me being new to this. Plus the mum already gets 80 percent back for childcare costs so doesn't pay my full wages out of her own wages

So the parents think they should get these outings for their dc for free?
They think part of the benefit of hiring a nanny is that they don’t have to pay for their dc?
are they first time nanny employer?

no where in the world is this the system. No where.

Parents pay for both the dc and for you. Next they’ll be telling you that you need to pay for the dc groceries too

It’s the same as a supermarket can’t tell a checkout worker to be self employed.

Well technically they could, they could say "this is a self employed role", but that would never work in reality, because the supermarket role needs much more control over the worker than could potentially be considered reasonable of a SE person.

There's also nothing to stop someone asking to be paid as self employed. I have done work in the past for a college, who initially wanted to put me on a pay roll for the duration of the project. As soon as I mentioned I was already self employed they happily revised the fees and said I could simply invoice them.

Was it Uber drivers who took them to court over this?

Well yes I mean they’re hardly going to accept checkout workers saying they want £20 an hour and sending someone else in their place or deciding at short notice not to turn up. 🤣So as the rules stand with checkout work not being like that, self employment can’t be imposed on them.

I saw someone advertising a ‘job’ the other day. Said about rotas and £15 an hour. Then said the person would need to be SE! 🤦🏼‍♀️

When someone works for one business or employer on a self employed basis, its actually the employers legal responsibility to make sure it is appropriate and not yours as you will pay your tax and NI, its them dodging their employers contributions (NI wise etc) that is the issue.

I can tell you now that you will not fulfil the legal requirement to be s/e as a nanny and that is their issue and not yours. What they are asking you to do is not legal in my mind and you can't put that type of expense through to subsidise them.

Sorry that is wrong, there is everything to stop the OP being s/e in the circumstances stated by the OP.

If you check the HMRC website there as some key main indicators and an online check you can do to see if you are self employed. As a rough summary:

In the UK, HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) generally classifies someone as self-employed if they:

• Take responsibility for the success or failure of their own business.
• Have multiple customers at the same time. (OP doesn't)
• Can choose where, how, and when they work. (OP can't)
• Can hire and pay others to help with their work. (Presume OP can't)
• Provide the main equipment needed to conduct their work. (Again unlikely OP does)
• Also, if she makes a mistake, does she pay to put it right or does her employer. I.e if you are at work and have got say an invoice wrong, do you have to put it right in your own time?

Depending on what you do as a job, you maybe able to be s/e but just because you were, doesn't mean it was right. It might only get picked up if they do a spot check.

But the onus is on the person that requests you to undertake the work to declare the appropriate status and not the OP, so its her employers that would get into trouble and not the OP.

Surely when you looked into taking a Nanny role for the first time, realised you didn't know how it worked in regards to tax/NI etc…..you did a quick google search and found out that the family must employ you.

Surely when you took the time to register yourself with HMRC as self-employed, you did a quick bit of research to make sure that what you were doing was legal?

60 seconds of googling would have told you everything you needed to know.

Hi OP, I'm a nanny too and my employers pay for everything for the kids, nothing comes out of my pocket. I have a kitty and I just tell them when it's getting low, they never even ask what I spend it on, although I'd be happy to tell them. I also have a work oyster card. They're taking the piss.

Hi,

From asking for advise on payments for days out it came to light I may be more employed than self employed. However I have contacted HMRC and they have said I am self employed it depends on the family whether they register to PAYE or not if not then you are automatically self employed and match the criteria.

Also I felt it was the wrong thing to think that you can claim expenses back and reading this I know it is however I asked HMRC and they have said you can put days out and any food etc on a self assessment form however as everyone said it only reduces how much tax you pay so in the end I'd be still paying for the day trips so I am going to have a discussion with her, she is not a bad person I think with her never using PAYE then she just automatically presumes nannys are self employed. Yes being self employed does lose the advantages of sick pay etc but it also gives the advantage to be able to take on another family the weeks she can not work.

Thanks for everyone's input I did not realise how much response I would get so I am greatful.

When we had a nanny she would take the baby to a baby group that she wanted to go to as her friends all went there so she paid for that, however if it was somewhere I wanted her to go or somewhere she suggested that I thought would be good for her then I would pay.

The absolute cheeky fuckery of the whole thing, why should you subsidise their kids days out, are they for real.
Some of these rich entitled arse holes just don't get it do they.
One of my grooms jobs for a family, expected me to drive their kids around in my car at my expense, I had an e class convertible merc at the time that took alot of saving up for I wasn't have their grubby rude kids in my car.
I just said it was only insured for social and domestic pleasure not business use, which was true anyway. My premium would have trebled to change it to business use.

They need to give you money in advance for outings including your own travel and entrance fees. We used to give ours a set amount a week for going out so she didn’t need to keep asking and if she went over for some reason she got it straight back. If they won’t give you the money don’t take the kids out out of your own pocket and maybe look for a family who aren’t trying to rip you off.

I paid mileage, entrance tickets, lunch etc. gave money to spend and reimbursed anything incidental. They are lacking knowledge (tax suggestion) or CF

I'm not convinced she's not a bad person. If she wants to use a nanny, she needs to have a basic level of understanding of how to employ one. It's very likely that she is deliberately taking advantage of you rather than being ignorant. Nannies aren't self employed unless it's a very short term, casual sort of relationship eg a couple of weeks of holiday care, for example or babysitting jobs. If this is a regular job, where you are expected to cover regular days for her, you need to be employed and have the advantages of being employed.

Yes - worked as a nanny for many years and always had a kitty purse that the mother kept topped up

If you're in London there are many free museums that children of that age would enjoy, the Science, National History, Crystal Palace is also worth a visit, musuem of Childhood is excellent.
I am sure other cities would also have free entrance museums but obviously she should pay all your travelling expenses, children will travel free but would probably want a treat/snack while out. Mine always manage to get something.

Of course parents pay for outings! And they should buy you a coffee and your bus fair snacks

how tight !!thus would make me reconsider working for them

You need to factor the difference between being self employed and an employee into your hourly rate. That is, you need to ensure you are accounting for not getting paid sick leave, leave etc. I’d suggest that factor would increase your hourly rate by at least 20%.

I agree , these people are ridiculous…
I can’t believe she expects you to pay !!!

They are cf. Even if you are self-employed as nanny you can't claim days out as an expense. Its only travel (your travel to and from place of work) clothing, insurance etc.

1. They should pay.
2. I’d be surprised if you could claim it back in your tax return, legitimately at least. It’s not your expense, it’s an expense of the children.

Free places only unless she coughs up.

Are you a nanny or childminder? Childminders pay for trips and put it as expenses nanny's don't. I guess she is getting her childcare paid by UC if so she will be hard up so do free things.

I can understand that you keep receipts and then put in a bit of paper with the receipts attached (keep a copy for your own records) and get the money back this way. You should also have money for things that you can't get receipts for like ice creams or drinks in the park. This strikes me as a very sensible way of doing things. Or you could ask for money and then provide receipts with change — like a petty cash system.

I used to have a credit card and then just highlight the items that had been bought to back up spending.

They must have misunderstood you OP.
Employment status is specific to the job and not to the individual. If you only work for her on a regular basis you cannot possibly be self employed.
Basically by not paying her employer NI she is committing tax evasion and denying you paid holiday.

Yep, I don't think they've understood/you've not given them accurate details..

You can check online, on the gov.uk site, simple online form.

The company I have a contract with do an annual test to ensure we (my direct colleagues and I) are self employed.

We set our own rate of pay - it's negotiable but we suggest what we want to be paid, they'll come back and say yes or no and we can haggle.

I can swap shifts/give my shifts to one of several other people if I want to, thats entirely between 9 of us.

We decide between us what hours we will work.

I work from wherever I want, and as long as the job is done, what else I do in that time is up to me - so if work is quiet (I have to respond within a certain time, and I have to provide a quality and useful response) I can do other work around it, at the same time.

So there are days where I am being paid X an hour from company A and I am also earning Y an hour from a private client (the client is not charged for any time I spend working for A!).

So in practice I may do an 8 hour shift for A, but only 5 hours of that actually responding to clients, and 3 hours doing some writing or illustration for B. It's not often and I don't generally like juggling both that way but sometimes I do.

I can and do also work for other people when not working for A.

I could not do any of this if I were someones employee!

OP your employer is knowingly or not knowingly breaking the law and could be fined and made to pay all the back taxes as an employer.

https://www.payefornannies.co.uk/self-employed-nanny-understanding-employment-status/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD-h6-dvHf1hhVj5YLk5lJzEDQSI7&gclid=CjwKCAjwk43ABhBIEiwAvvMEB9V5iSuxsuU-zo4oxUOLm6gT2dZAZVXkcmAjeUZ7DnSIjOqrBiRhGxoCziMQAvD_BwE

https://www.gov.uk/au-pairs-employment-law

i don’t know if your employer thinks they’ve found a clever way to save money or if ther are truly ignorant but they are currently avoiding paying N.I. And also trying to avoid paying for expenses. Do they think the taxpayer is going to pay for outings? And even in the case of genuine self employment it’s only the tax paid on expenses that you would recover. The taxpayer doesn’t reimburse actual services.

are they sly and ringing to cheat the system or are they truly stupid?

in any case either they’ve sort themselves out or you’ll have to leave
and report them if you leave