Should parents pay nanny's for the nanny to take them out?

[NannyL24]

Can I have some advise please I started working as a registered nanny for a nurse last September due to cold weather and dark nights and alot of evening shifts I haven't needed to take the children out and they haven't wanted to they've been happy enough staying home playing outside with friends and playing games with me and other games they already have. However with it becoming warmer and the holidays I have said from day one of starting I am happy to take the two (6 years old and 8) to museums, bowling, cinema, parks etc. However this was recently brought up and the parent said I could get paid back this via tax which wouldnt be while a year later on a tax return and i doubt daily outings can be given back, I have said no to this due to working for an Income and not funding the children for a year out of my wages. Are parents meant to pay for their own children outings and even my costs as I am working? Just need some advise with me being new to this. Plus the mum already gets 80 percent back for childcare costs so doesn't pay my full wages out of her own wages

DS had a notebook that lived in the kitchen. Nanny would write down mileage and any expenses and they settled every week. When my DC were growing up I could only afford free trips anyway.

Quit, and put warning messages about them on all local nanny networks/WhatsApp groups.

The problem is that as a nanny working for one family, you don't meet the legal criteria to be classed as self employed.

The family are getting a good deal as they won't be paying employers NI contributions and perhaps also not sick pay or holiday pay. Even if they do they won't be paying the employer's tax associated with this.

Every single nanny my friends or I had were paid for expenses, be that ticket entry, drinks etc. We had a vague rule that there was one big expense a week on holidays like entry to an adventure park and other than that she used her discretion. Obviously we paid for her and the children.

On self employment versus employment, they are having a laugh because they’re avoiding a lot of payroll that is normally paid, and avoiding having to pay your pension.

Only work for families that can actually afford it IMO.

So much wrong with this, but in particular even if these were tax deductible expenses, you could only "claim bacK" the tax you pay on those costs, so around 22%. The rest would come out of your own pocket.

Having said that, days out are expensive so I can see why she doesn't want to pay for them. Just do free stuff - most parents have to do that all Summer anyway.

Ask her if she genuinely believes the government pays for thousands of children with nannies, to go to the cinema and eat ice cream

You should be reimbursed for activities/given the money for them but the parent has to approve it . You can’t just go around spending other people’s money for them. Clearly there isn’t the budget for expensive things (she’s probably already paying loads in your wages, which obviously you deserve but will likely be hard) so you do need to find free cheap /activities and if you can’t do that then find a new job.

For the CEST tool to prove I was entitled to be self employed I need to work for a variety of clients, prove I advertise my services on a regular basis, to be prepared to provide an alternate if I am unable to do a job ( I belong tk WhatsApp groups for this), provide my own equipment and insurance, set my own hours and negotiate my rates with clients, send invoices for bills.

Of course they pay. I've had nannies and you pay all the expenses they incur looking after/entertaining the child.

When we had a nanny, we employed her and paid her wage monthly and her expenses weekly - mainly travel and food /activities. Sometimes I would give her money in advance for this stuff but mostly paid her weekly and she was happy with that.

We used payefornannies.co.uk so everything was transparent and above board

They are being CFs

IR35 means you work for an umbrella company or you set up a company isn't it?

As a mum of three, days out are expensive! And that’s even just small local farms, everything adds up so quickly. I’ve never been a nanny nor used one, but even if my kids go round a friends house and parent suggest taking them out, I’d be offering to pay to cover my child’s costs. These parents are absolutely taking the mickey and it’s not fair they expect you to entertain their children with no budget. I hope they change their mind or you find another job, especially as you’re getting no holiday/sick pay or pension contributions…good luck

You can’t. To protect people like the OP you can’t have a self employed nanny unless they are working with three families or more and they are deciding their own hours. Like an emergency nanny for example.

You wouldn’t get those expenses back on your tax return! You might get the tax back but not the entire expense.

But where’s your workplace pension?

are you at least charging them MORE than an employed nanny to cover for the additional expenses like NI and tax that they’re not paying?

you need to find someone else to work for. Their attitude stinks!

they are mean and you are being taken for a ride.

Hi! I am self employed (not a nanny though). If you have only one client, and work regular hours and get the same pay every months, then HMRC can and will argue that they should employ you. Maybe not in the first tax year but in the second (happened to my friend who was an IT consultant but basically a member of staff). Plus you are losing out on paid annual leave and employer’s pension contributions. The parents sound like CF. I often have babysitters in the holidays and always pay for activities (cheap ones I should add), the odd ice cream or snack in rhe summer and public transport or petrol costs.

And OF COURSE they should be paying for their kids to go places

urgh, I hope posting this has given you an insight as to how shitty they are as people AND parents

OP - to be clear - posters are not saying YOU are evading tax or doing anything you shouldn’t - but your Employer is. You are doing yourself out of lots of rights (holiday pay, sick pay, mat leave) by agreeing to work in this way.

she sounds a chancer and you should look for another job.

On your specific query, I’m unclear what the client is saying that you should claim the expense back through tax. Do you mean that you should invoice her monthly for the expenses so she gets the 20% tax free amount? Otherwise this doesn’t make sense.

www.nannytax.co.uk/self-employment

It's all been said but any costs associated with your work should not be your burden. We've always had nannies and I've always employed them and I've provided a budget each week for outings. We would provide 200 per week to our nanny, and then if they were going somewhere special we would pay the additional.

Also be careful with self employed, you should not be working permanently as a single job. Read up on the criteria.

You may be registered as a self-employed Nanny but that doesn’t mean it’s legal. From what you have described you absolutely do not fit the legal criteria for self-employment. The parent is a nurse who works shifts, where you are required to change your hours to cover her shifts. This alone means that you cannot be classed as self employed.

A Nanny can only be self-employed in rare situations - for example does lots of temp positions, sickness cover, works for several families, chooses their own hours when they are available, sets their own hourly rate etc.

Im less worried about paying for trips. More concerned about the following - are you:

• Paid at least minimum wage?
• Getting 5.6 weeks of paid holiday per year?

The average Nanny pay in the UK is £12.21-£15 ph for an unqualified, less experienced Nanny. Then £15-20ph for a more qualified/experienced Nanny. Obviously this will vary a little on the region.

However if for some reason you do qualify for being self-employed (have you checked with HMRC, or just decided yourself?) then you should be setting your own hourly rate, when you are available for work, invoicing her every month for your hours and any additional costs you have accrued. And your hourly rate should be much higher than minimum wage because you need to cover periods of unpaid holiday, sickness, pension, your own admin costs to do your own accounts etc.

Time to sit down and have a very frank conversation with your boss. If they aren’t willing to pay you properly as an employee then you should look for a new job.

It's simple isn't it then - just take them to free local places and take a pack lunch for all 3 of you unless she has an issue with that. Or you leave.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-employment-status-for-tax

I recommend the OP takes a look at this.

Expenses such as trips out cannot be offset against tax, btw.

How many days a week are you nannying? Are you full time / live in?

Is there anything you can do that is within walking distance?

As others have said, this is absolutely wrong.
id be having a very clear conversation about what they think you can claim back, because it isn’t this. And how trips etc should be paid for if they want you to take the children.

I think I’d also be looking for a new job.

Not sure, my childminder generally takes mine out and we don’t pay, never even thought of it!

she does have copies of our zoo pass, and otherwise has lots of childminder passes which means she can take any 3-4 children. I assume she claims these back on her taxes. She uses them for her own children too.

she also finds lots of free activities ! Obviously a childminder is different to a nanny so maybe that’s where the confusion is