Should parents pay nanny's for the nanny to take them out?

[NannyL24]

Can I have some advise please I started working as a registered nanny for a nurse last September due to cold weather and dark nights and alot of evening shifts I haven't needed to take the children out and they haven't wanted to they've been happy enough staying home playing outside with friends and playing games with me and other games they already have. However with it becoming warmer and the holidays I have said from day one of starting I am happy to take the two (6 years old and 8) to museums, bowling, cinema, parks etc. However this was recently brought up and the parent said I could get paid back this via tax which wouldnt be while a year later on a tax return and i doubt daily outings can be given back, I have said no to this due to working for an Income and not funding the children for a year out of my wages. Are parents meant to pay for their own children outings and even my costs as I am working? Just need some advise with me being new to this. Plus the mum already gets 80 percent back for childcare costs so doesn't pay my full wages out of her own wages

They should give you the money up front to cover outings for the 3 of you. Outrageous not to.

If they're asking you to take children somewhere that costs money, then they should pay. If they don't want that, then don't take them out. Hopefully their parents do something different with them occasionally when they're off work though.

She is wrong, that's not how it works.If you're self employed, let's say you made £25,000. You have £12,570 personal allowance, which you don't have to pay tax on. That leaves £12,430, and you pay about 20% tax on that which is £2486 tax.

If you claim expenses, that reduces your profit. So for example, if you made £25,000 and claimed £1000 in expenses for trips, travel etc, then your profit is £24,000. Deduct your personal allowance, leaving £11,430. Around 20% tax on that is £2286.

So you claimed £1000 in expenses, but your taxes only reduced by £200. You don't get your expenses money back. It just reduces the profit on which you are taxed. Hope that makes sense.

You might want to have a read of this:

https://www.nannytax.co.uk/self-employment

from how you have described your role it doesn’t seem as if you can possiblY Be defined as self employed - you’re an employee and therefore entitled to holiday pay, sick pay, maternity pay etc

I always gave my nanny money for entrances and money for lunch and definitely including her.

you need to tell her this is the way it will be or you won’t be taking them anywhere or will nanny someone else’s kids. Honestly you’re the one with all the cards in your hand - very hard to get Nannie’s these days

You are misunderstanding. Legally, you cannot work for a single employer, with hours, rate of pay, and place of work dictated by them, and be self-employed. You just can't.

If you are employed, your employers should be paying employer's National Insurance contributions as well as you paying employee National Insurance contributions. They should have insurance. They should be doing your payroll.

Regardless of what you think, it is not legal for you to be 'self-employed' in this job.

This is incredibly dodgy. The fact you are registered as self employed doesn't make it all correct. It means you aren't cheating the system (unless you believe their lies when they try to make you cooperate with some dodgy accounting when it comes to tax and expenses) but they are definitely cheating both you and HMRC. They are bad people.

You’re missing the point here. Your employers should be paying employer national insurance on your wages, which they are evading. That’s illegal and technically money laundering. Whether you’re employed or not is a matter of tax law.

'Employing' a nanny

They’re taking you for a ride! I was a nanny years ago and not only did they pay for any trips and treats for myself and the children but they were completely above board paying my NI etc. I’ve honestly never heard of a self employed nanny.
Do you at least have a contract? Also, if they’re classing you as self employed, do you not get paid annual leave etc?
I’d get some legal advice if I were you. Either that, or I’d be looking for another job with a decent employer!
But no, you absolutely shouldn’t be footing the bill for the kid’s outings!

Parents pay for everything.
They either give you a set amount of cash or pre-loaded card per week/ month which you account for with receipts
Otherwise you stay home or only do free things.

This would really put me off working for someone - be firm & be prepared to start job hunting if they get to pushy

Years ago I qualified as a Nanny and subsequently worked as one before changing career, employer paid for everything. As others have said you need to find another job, you’re clearly being taken advantage of.
I would advise you contact and speak to your local Citizens Advice office. It’s a free service and will give you accurate advice

It drives me up the wall that some people who employ a nanny do not do it properly, yet they are in secure salaried jobs!!
As has been said, you should be employed and the employer should be paying HMRC NI and tax etc plus your pension! I pay a payroll company to manage that side so I know exactly what I should be paying!

i employ a nanny and the contract is very clear - what they are paid, and what is expensed. We agree each holiday what ‘bigger day trips’ will be done and I buy the tickets. (For my children and her entry) For smaller expenses (ice creams etc) and mileage she will note it all down and it’s paid at month end. I often give some cash at the holidays for small expenses but many places are card only so doesn’t really work all the time.

Employing a nanny is expensive (particularly with the NI increases this month) but it is wrong they are trying to impact you financially for their children!! Plus you should be entitled to annual leave, sick leave and redundancy- all of which you won’t be as self employed!!

This makes no sense. Even if you did put it through as tax deductible expenses, you would still be out of pocket! It might reduce how much tax you pay but the reduction wouldn’t even come close to offsetting the costs.

Op. If they won't pay for the trips them you simply don't take the kids out on trips. A reasonable person doesn't ask the nanny to pay for their kids trips. And no you don't get it paid back in your tax return. You log legitimate expenses that gets calculated and your tax bill is worked out on this, you don't get money back as such and as far as I know entrance fees for the places you take the kids to are not counted as expenses but I'm not an expert on this. Go online and search it or call hmrc and once you have the info send her the link so she can see what she said is incorrect as well.

Start job hunting while you sit in the garden and watch bored children that you can’t take to educational places because the parents are too stingy.

The parents sound awful. You have no financial protection for anything and no pension.

You deserve better. They will moan at the slightest thing. Get out before they do.

You can't be a self employed nanny, and that's not how tax returns work. You would not be reimbursed by the government for taking the children for days out. You need to wise up OP they are taking you for a ride.

Already said but they give you a credit card and you keep all the receipts (make copies jic) on your camera.Keep a list as well of dates/amounts. Family then pay off (or not) the card each month. All purchases eg ice cream, drinks etc on the card. Buy anything for yourself out of your own money. These parents sound the sort who will pick thro the bills questioning why 3 ice creams or 3 bottles of water. Look for another job.

You can't be a self employed nanny, working for one family with set hours/employer dictating the rate of pay. What this nurse is doing is illegal. I can gob smacked at how cheeky she is in suggesting that you pay for her DC's days out and expenses. Unbelievable! You could attempt to speak to her but, ultimately, you will probably need to leave @NannyL24.

Short answer "yes". Long answer - "hell, yes".

I was a nurse and many years ago employed a nanny - I barely broke even financially. However I do think you shouldn't be paying out of your own pocket for your/their expenses but I also think they should be agreed up front so as your employer can think whether she can actually afford it. I certainly at that time had to think twice. The extras almost tipped the balance as to whether it was actually worth me working at all.

Maybe time to look for a new post! They are massively taking the absolute piss. WTF? Even if you stick to the park/museums etc then they will want an ice cream /drink and so on .I would be looking elsewhere and moving on .

OP the self-employed thing is complicated, there are certain criteria about being self-employed or employed which HMRC has rules about, it's not actually something you have a huge 'choice' over though how you frame your contract etc does obviously have a bearing. Just because HMRC accepted you at the start doesn't mean it's right now.

Eg, are all your earnings through this one customer/employer? Do they provide you will all the equipment you need to work? Etc etc. The more they provide, the more they are deemed 'employers'. So the expenses thing probably comes from that - in an employed situation, they would provide expenses. In a self-employed, you do it (but you would then normally charge back / roll it into your hourly rate which you set high enough to cover it).

In terms of claiming back via self-employed, remember it's not the cost of the ticket you're claiming back. It's reducing your profits for the year to lower your tax liability. So it's just your tax you're reducing, you're still paying for the ticket, you're not getting that whole value back!

As others have said, they should pay for reasonable expenses. You should agree a 'kitty' with them- clearly, bigger trips etc they wouldn't be wanting you to do - they will want to do these things as special outings with their kids at weekends etc. But local activities etc, absolutely. They can give you a pre-paid cash card to use, which could be like £15 a week or something and it's up to you how to manage it - some weeks it'll be parks all the time, other weeks a bit of expense.

100%. In the days of DS being in nursery and then having a childminder, if I didn’t pay for the extra trips he didn’t go.

Exactly
Although being SE is easier to argue if you have more than 1 client its not the only criteria. One that HMRC have used a lot to win cases is the rule of substitution - can you send someone in your place?
Its vanishingly unlikely ANY Nanny position would meet this
OP, you are being ripped off, you should have sick pay, maternity pay,possibly a pension and other perks of being Employed.
The expenses thing is the least of it