Nanny - are my expectations too high?

[Tyletylertyler]

I'm employing a nanny for 21 hours a week. I'm not sure if my expectations of her are too high and I'd appreciate some opinions. I didn't go through the agency route and actually the children already knew her before she became our nanny.

My children are 6 and 4. The 4 year old likes her though I wouldn't say they are especially close after six months but the 6 year old doesn't seem to get on with her much at all. She seems to have no respect for nanny and I don't think nanny is very good with disciplining her - she can be difficult sometimes but she's always been good at nursery, at school and at after school club. I have overheard nanny talking to them sometimes and the discipline always sounds quite half hearted (almost a plea rather than any real boundaries / control).

The main issue I have with her is that she seems to lack initiative and is quite careless about things. Every time they do a messy activity there will be a new stain on the carpet (paint, slime, etc). She scratches all my non stick pans by using metal utensils in them even though I've asked her not to and put a pot of wooden spoons next to the hob. She just dumps all the kids stuff back in whatever box so their toys are never nicely put away and she'll put pens and even paints away without lids on. Shes not doing it on purpose i don't think, she just doesn't notice these things. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what I feel isn't working but I think it is a lack of initiative / common sense. If I give her any feedback she gets quite defensive and I don't feel like things don't change enough.

Another example is that I have to remind her repeatedly to meal plan, I asked her to let me know in advance what she needs for meals to cook them but the week rolls around and she hasn't done it - in fact she never has. I come home and my heart sinks because the kids have often eaten no dinner (because they don't like what she has cooked) yet they will be down from the table and playing, there'll be a new stain on the carpet, the toys are all chucked in random places and there will be some mess in the kitchen. She's always 5 minutes late. It's all little stuff but it's building to a point where I feel like she's just not a good fit. She's quite young still and i feel like she requires lots of input from me.

She is my first nanny and I am worried I am just being way too fussy and need to relax a bit. I don't know how much time I should give this.

Lots of people claim to be nannies are their luck. My first nanny was like this, but so argumentative we reached the point we felt we couldn't say anything. She just got progressively worse. I'd pull the plug and start again if I were you. A proper nanny knows what they ought to be doing and won't need continually reminding re basics.

Alondra, I feel the need to point out that £1 sterling is worth nearly twice as much as $1 AU. So £15 = $29 — still very cheap, but not quite as dramatic as it seems if assuming £1 = $1 AU.

In my area I might be able to get someone to look after a child for around £20ph if the hours and the location and everything else suited them. But I wouldn't be expecting someone professional for that rate. And of course if I was actually employing them I'd have to pay National Insurance and a pension contribution on top. I get the feeling the OP isn't doing that. She's gone for the budget option and you do get what you pay for.

In terms of meals. You will have two types of nannies in jobs:

1. they are given full access to work card, and then do all own food planning, ordering etc. They can plan, shop on Ocado for suitable times and then pick up extras out and about as needed . They know ie kids baking ingredients or extra children for play dates. Parents do a separate order with day to day basics, breakfast, own stuff.

2. parents do all ordering. Then they generally meal plan and tell nanny what to cook. or just show recipe

Its awkward if you have one person planning and one different person ordering as it means planner us to be very specific about how they will make a dish and how many it’s for etc.

As a former nanny, meal planning and cooking accordingly (often for whole family), and keeping toys organised are part of the job but ideally this needs to be made crystal clear at the outset rather than slide in gradually as this fosters resentment and ‘that’s not in my job description’ woes.
You need to re recruit a nanny- housekeeper imo. Then the housekeeping duties can incorporate the above even if the job is primarily childcare.
Agree with other posters she won’t change get someone at the higher rate from the off oh and glowing references are a must. It will change your life

You can't do an exchange rate between two countries without taking into account t average earnings. In the UK the average earning is over 27,000 pounds a year, in Australia it's almost $1,900 a week.

Then I echo a PP and say your experience in Australia is completely irrelevant to the issue here in the UK.

I was a nanny for 20yrs and I don't think your expectations are too high in terms of discipline, activities, reasonable care for the house and tidying up

I have never had to meal plan but I would either do the shopping with their card so brought what I wanted

Or would ask for chicken and mince for example and make a casserole and spag bol

Equally nothing wrong with beans on toast - pesto pasta - fish fingers jacket and veg

You say your first nanny. Did you work before ? If you didn't then maybe 6yr doesn't like her as not you and now you are working she hasn't got you

Assume 4yr is at pre school some of the time and obv 6yr at school so yes she can tidy up playroom /toys or make a shepherds pie

As she is only there 2 days she doesn't know what they have eaten rest of week so Prob easier for you to buy stuff and say please use mince sausages chicken etx

Does she have a creative /art space so a table /mat and place to do slime etx

Tell her she can be firm with 6yr if telling them off

Tell nanny what you want and give her a month to redeem self

If she doesn't find a new nanny. Can you be flexible on what 2 days as that helps or has to be mon and Tue for example

£1 Sterling exchanges for around $2 in Australian dollars. So it sounds like the pay for nannies in Australia is about the same as it is in the UK. $15/h would be equivalent to about £7.50/h which would be illegal as it is below the UK minimum wage.

Our nanny wouldn't meal plan, she did 3 days a week and I would just let her know if something in the fridge wasn't to be eaten for any reason and i would ensure there was enough food in. She had great initiative though, and would cook things they liked and I felt it was good for them to have someone else's cooking/meals. She did only cook about 6 or 8 things and repeated them, which didn't bother me. She was proactive in finding fun activities and much better at disciplining than you describe.

I think expecting her to find time to create or find recipes and tell you what ingredients she needs is a bit much- maybe just say you've noticed that the children aren't eating her food, explain what they like and suggest you get those ingredients in your weekly food shop so she can regularly make macaroni cheese/spaghetti bol/whatever it is they like?
Our nanny was a great tidier, she often sorted cupboards, did washing, ironing and would (for example) pro actively sort their clothes each time the seasons changed and let me know what they needed. We are a messy family though and I often do things like throw toys in a box (if it's not on my table, it's tidied) so maybe my standards are lower! Aged 4 and 6 I'd expect the children to help her with this too tbh, she's not their servant! Also my daughter was 1 so she always had nap time for this stuff.
Have a "serious chat" and set her a couple of goals and if after a few weeks she isn't improving then I'd have a hunt for someone new. Ultimately fit is super important with nannies, maybe you just need someone with a different focus/style. If she improves in those areas, then she is clearly open to feedback and you can change the areas of focus.

We’ve had quite a few nannies because of various reasons. I always try and keep my top priorities in mind. In my case, I don’t want them sat in front of the telly for long hours or fed loads of crap, and most importantly I want the kids to be happy with her. So the fact that your 6 year old doesn’t get on with her would bother me. Our best nanny left the house in a mess and couldn’t cook to save her life. But she had the kids outside a lot, did loads of art and games with them and they adored her. I used to leave her a dinner to heat up for them. I’d draw up a pros and cons list and focus it on the kids rather than than things that annoy you.

I was brought up by nannies and they never had to meal prep or buy food.
there would be meals in the freezer that could be defrosted and heated up, and there would be a full fridge/freezer and larder. My parents were shit but they met as catering officers in the navy and they had food in the house.
it wouldn’t have mattered if we had nuggets, chips and beans the odd night if we had been busy playing.
however, if the kids don’t like her, that’s a big red flag. And I would expect things not to be ruined regularly
I do think your expectations are a little high though with the food

I would expect cleaners to be on more

they have to provide cleaning products

jobs are usually 2-3 hours and have to travel between which wastes time and costs money

there will literally be no down time

cleaners round me aren’t cheap and I think they deserve every penny

Just to add where we are that pay per hour would get you someone with experience but with no qualifications. So I would have low expectations on the household/cooking stuff but obviously you need them to care for the kids really well. If I was paying a proper salary to a qualified nanny I would expect more.

@purplevipersgrass paying a cleaner or dog walker for a couple of hours a week, who is self employed, is not the same as having a nanny employee. Even if you take into consideration a part time nanny commanding a premium, £30ph+ is mad. Here is a guide:

www.nannytax.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Nannytax-Salary-Index-22-23.pdf

In my experience, nannies fall into two camps

• great cooks, very focused on nutrition, 50/50 if good at the nannying part of the job
• poor cooks, great at the actual nannying part.

That’s not very scientific but I can sort all mine into those categories. We talk still of those in the 2nd category and one in particular remains a family friend and cheerleader while the first type didn’t last for long.

Our best and last nanny did pasta/pasta bake and frozen food! We ended up buying prepared mash so that the kids wouldn’t eat chips more than twice a week. But she was fantastic, loved the kids and they loved her.

Nope, each situation is different.

I don't neal plan, Icook from what's available. You're cooking 5/7 evening meals. You know what they're having the other 5 nights.
2 nights a week I'd just agree on 2 meals she can cook that your kids like.
OR
personally I'd just cook extra portions of something we are having, that they like for her two nights, then all she has to do is heat them up.

also saves your pans.

is there an outside reason she's 'always' 5 minutes late? Like a bus route? 5 minutes late or getting the bus an hour earlier?

How much does it actually impact you?

i would come down HARD on the carpet stains with messy play. In fact as she's only there 2 afternoons I'd just ban it. Plenty of time when you're home.

or just give her notice & try someone else.

We had a babysitter (who was training at a V prestigious nanny college) who was similar. My children, who are v well behaved at school and clubs etc were awfully behaved with her. Like you I heard her trying to maintain boundaries but it was so half hearted I can see why their behaviour is appalling. There were other issues too: I put it down to youth (maybe not getting what it is like to keep a home clean etc) and lack of experience. I stopped using her when I came home at 11 after a meal out and my son was in the living room having just refused to go to bed. No big shakes. I do think she will have a big problem being a full time nanny though unless she ups her skills, especially as the college she comes from tend to cater to them Wealthy. If you’ve tried giving feedback and it is t working I would look to change nanny. Sadly I do think that children are very clever and once they know you are someone who they can mess about they will continue to do it. Does she have permission to give rewards and punishments?

From where I’m sitting she’s giving off massive DGAF vibes.

I think the cooking/meal prep side of things needs to go - it may not fit in to her hours/days and is tricky for a PT nanny and perhaps for a younger person with less experience of family meal planning.

But everything else together is just poor. I have children this age and part of the daily routine is stopping five minutes before bedtime or dinner to tidy up. And she can find something other than slime to do if she doesn’t have a handle on setting up the activity so there isn’t mess everywhere.

The meal plan can easily be sorted if you leave her instructions. However, the other bits are not that difficult to follow. You are not satisfied with her so look for another nanny.

I only had one good nanny and she left for a professional job unrelated. Really hard and stressful. Hope you are luckier with the next one.

I've just seen a Norland trained nanny in this area asking for £14ph (gross). So I am not trying to pay below market for my area to those who are wondering that. We aren't in London or another place where nannies are getting more. Those I know who are in London pay their nanny £13 or £14 net ph (but more full time hours).

5 minutes late isn't a big deal but I regularly let her leave 30 minutes early if I get back from work early (most days I do) so I don't think being on time is an unreasonable expectation.

It's also not a case of me not buying food for the other days, there is always food in the house obviously, but nanny will text me and ask what to give them for dinner when I'm out at work and I just wish she would figure it out for herself or better yet tell me what she wants to cook for them in advance. Either way I just want her to take control of things more and take the job a bit more seriously but I don't think that is going to happen so I'm going to look for someone new. She's nice but I feel like she wants to do the minimum and I would be happier paying someone more who really wants to help and bond with the kids.

Thanks for all the replies.

I doubt very much whether you have seen a genuine Norland Nanny prepared to work for £14ph.
https://www.norland.ac.uk/salaries-fees/
https://www.nannybutler.com/childcare/norland-nanny/#.

Norland Nanny Salary Guide
The average salary for a Norland Nanny is around £1,000/1,500 net per week. Once Norland Nannies have been in the job for more than a decade they can command anything up to £100,000+ net per annum.

That's net pay, after tax, NI and pension contributions have been paid by the employer. Do you pay your nanny's tax, NI and pension contribution or is she actually a freelance baby-sitter you've asked to do a 10-hour day? Do you pay cash-in-hand? Perhaps her lack of enthusiasm is related to her realisation that this is really not a good long term situation for her to be in?

Get rid of her OP!

Maybe she is worried if she used the chicken for example that you wanted it the next evening for you

Just say use the chicken mince salmon etx

Why is she 5mins later. Does she drive or take a train /bus

Feel really sad reading this post. These are your kids FFS why would you have someone they don’t particularly like or bond with take on a nannying role for them. That is a far bigger consideration than whether she puts the toys back in the right box!! After 6 months I would expect a child to be close to a Nanny that has them 2 whole days a week and does everything for them on those days and I wouldn’t settle for anything less personally.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and seeing as you don't believe me I have no idea why you're bothering to reply to me. Believe it or not, it's the going rate for my area. And yes I pay her tax, provide insurance, and am registered for payroll and with the pension regulator. Obviously I have to be because she is my employee.