Nanny time off for her DS

[annoyedatotherparents]

Hi,
Opinions please as I can't work out if IABU or she is!
We've had a nanny for three years and we're very fond of her. We're also pretty good employers - have given two unasked-for pay rises in that time, give her lots of extra time off, never turn up late or expect her to do anything over and above her contract etc. In return she is a really good nanny for us - kind with the three DC and very conscientious.
The issue has come recently since her son started reception. She is obsessed with not missing anything the school put on for parents and keeps asking for time off at short notice to attend things. I have tried to accommodate wherever I can but the things she is insistent on attending are (to my mind) not that important - eg we've given her time off for her son's Nativity, but she now wants time off for a craft afternoon the school are putting on as well and some kind of singing thing (not a carol concert as we've also agreed to that one!)
I've tried to point out that as a working parent there will always be things she (and I) can't make - you have to prioritise and accept that there will always be tradeoffs. But she has effectively said that if we don't agree to give her time off for these things she will have to call in sick, or leave.
I want to sort this as I understand it's important to her to be present for her son, but I also have a pretty busy job and three children myself that I'm trying to juggle so it's becoming very stressful. Would love to hear how other people who have nannies with their own DC navigate this?

Also if relevant - she has a husband who's self employed and able to look after her DS when ill etc and can make all the Christmas events so it's not like her soon would miss out - it's that she wants to go too!

Its understandable that she doesn't want to miss firsts. If she is taking the time as annual leave then I can't see the problem. You need to have a sit down with her and review her terms of employment, ie notice for holidays etc.

It's not as annual leave - she doesn't have any left. She wants it as extra.

That's not going to work for her then, unless its unpaid leave or it comes out of next years allocation. How much holiday does she get a year?

That's completely unacceptable & defeats the purpose of you having a nanny to accommodate your work! We've had nannies in the past and this would not have worked for me at all.

How old are your DCs? Could she take them with her to the events? Not ideal but then she doesn't miss out and you still have childcare?

If she really can't see the issue, then sadly I'd say you need to give her notice and start looking for another nanny.

We used au pairs once the children were older and that worked very well (& was a fraction of the cost of a nanny) as long as you don't mind them living in.

Can she take your dc?

If she really can't see the issue, then sadly I'd say you need to give her notice and start looking for another nanny.
OP absolutely can't do this.

If you can't accommodate the extra unpaid leave, then unfortunately you can't. If she needs a job that can be flexible around her son then she may decide to move on.

@Alexandernevermind she gets seven weeks a year as standard plus extra all the time we have off on holiday so she's not doing badly!

@Givemeallthegin8 @XanaduKira sadly she wouldn't be able to take the DCs as it falls over periods when she'd have to be picking them up from school / pre-school / clubs etc

We all would like extra time of work but it doesn’t work like that. She should have planned her annual leave better. YANBU. I would put my foot down. If she starts calling in sick to go craft time etc then l would confront her about. Maybe it’s best if she leaves with her current attitude

If she's otherwise reliable and you want to keep her, I would sit her down and have an honest chat about her and your expectations for the future.

Then let her have the 2022 events off unpaid, as a good will gesture (if possible) and going forward whatever you agreed on.

She's offered to take it as unpaid leave but it's not that which is the issue - it's the fact that I cannot take any more time off work to accommodate when I've already got three DC's worth of Christmas stuff to make myself - and my DH isn't able to do any of it as his job can't accommodate.

Why can’t the op give her notice? Surely she doesn’t have to be stuck with someone who isn’t fulfilling their job role, until they decide to leave? It sounds like if the nanny isn’t given time off, she will just call in sick. That’s not sustainable in a nanny/working parent relationship.

7 weeks plus extra and now she wants more?! That's insane! Have the boundaries become a bit blurred in terms of her feeling more like a family member than a paid employee? I think I'd just have to say that I couldn't agree to all leave, but would try and accommodate what I can, taking into account that I'm paying for a nanny because I need a nanny to care for my children. If she chooses to leave that would be sad. I doubt she would find anyone else willing to give her all the extra time though.

I'd say, based on my own experience, that - sadly - your nanny has got too used to your generosity. And now expects certain things from you that are unreasonable.

We had very similar with our (very lovely) first nanny, who worked for us for 8 years. Ultimately she started getting resentful because we couldn't/wouldn't accept some of the things she wanted, and she thought we were massively unreasonable for not giving in to her demands. As we both had very full-on jobs, often involving international travel, we simply couldn't accommodate her - she knew that, but was still pretty insistent.

You need to sit down with her and talk it all through. She has to understand that her job is to look after your children, and that on that basis, they do take priority. That's not to say that she can't do other things with her children - but those things have to come out of her holiday time (seven weeks is incredibly generous!), and only if they fit around what your children need/are doing. If she thinks that's unfair, then she's in the wrong job, I'm afraid.

If she threatened to call in sick then the relationship has broken down. Dishonesty, and/or the threat of it would be a dealbreaker for me.

I think you need to have a chat with your Nanny and point out if she wants to attend events at her DC school then it must come out of her holidays. You cannot accommodate lots of days off or half days off outside of holidays. I would say you have already been generous accommodating both Nativity and Carol Service. I would say no to craft event and if she takes time off you will terminate her contract. Look for an Aupair.

No, you can't just give an employee of 3 years notice and employ someone else. You'd have to go through a disciplinary process, following correct procedures.
Asking for time off to go to a child's school events isn't really a basis for dismissal, is it?
Possibly if the nanny calls in sick and the employer can prove they weren't, that might be grounds for dismissal - but would probably only warrant a warning.

Anybody who threatened me with ‘calling in sick’, to get what they wanted, would be working out their notice. Completely unacceptable.

If she was working anywhere else (office, shop, hospital, school etc) she would have to abide by her employer's terms & conditions. This would probably mean that she couldn't have all the time off that she wanted, unless as annual leave (but even then, only if convenient to the employer). So why should working for you be any different?
It seems that she is trying to take advantage of her good relationship with you. She should have saved some of her annual leave to cover these occasions - just like other parents do.

I can't believe she told you she was going to call in sick! What was she thinking?

I think what you have said to her is more than reasonable. She doesn't want to miss out on these things but she has too as she has a job. If she wants to be a SAHM then she can go to everything at school.

If this is extra time, you are within your right as an employee to decline. I would clearly document all these times if she does in fact call in sick and start looking for alternative childcare.

As other posters have said if she in a different career she wouldn’t be able to take time off as and when.

Very difficult and I can understand that as her child is now in reception these are his "firsts" that she doesn't feel able to miss out on.
However, she has a job and responsibility to you and your family. You are perfectly reasonable to say no although as an employer a parent is allowed a certain amount of "unpaid leave for parental days" so I would try keep track when she takes these. I would go down the route that if she "calls in sick" that you give her a written warning. I am not sure that you can just dismiss her for one wrongdoing. Keep them all down; write to her and if you let her go then you've got evidence that the working relationship has broken down.

Understand how she feels but it’s not your concern. If she can no longer fulfil the requirements of the job, you need to find someone who can.

She is being massively unreasonable. I'm surprised you have to ask really. The whole point of employing a nanny is so that you can go to work without worrying about childcare - if you're having to take time off to accommodate her child, then the nanny isn't fit for purpose!
I would absolutely allow time off for nativity and parents evening at school but not the rest.

No one can take on a job and then expect complete freedom to do all the other things they would prefer to do at the same time.