Nanny time off for her DS

[annoyedatotherparents]

Hi,
Opinions please as I can't work out if IABU or she is!
We've had a nanny for three years and we're very fond of her. We're also pretty good employers - have given two unasked-for pay rises in that time, give her lots of extra time off, never turn up late or expect her to do anything over and above her contract etc. In return she is a really good nanny for us - kind with the three DC and very conscientious.
The issue has come recently since her son started reception. She is obsessed with not missing anything the school put on for parents and keeps asking for time off at short notice to attend things. I have tried to accommodate wherever I can but the things she is insistent on attending are (to my mind) not that important - eg we've given her time off for her son's Nativity, but she now wants time off for a craft afternoon the school are putting on as well and some kind of singing thing (not a carol concert as we've also agreed to that one!)
I've tried to point out that as a working parent there will always be things she (and I) can't make - you have to prioritise and accept that there will always be tradeoffs. But she has effectively said that if we don't agree to give her time off for these things she will have to call in sick, or leave.
I want to sort this as I understand it's important to her to be present for her son, but I also have a pretty busy job and three children myself that I'm trying to juggle so it's becoming very stressful. Would love to hear how other people who have nannies with their own DC navigate this?

She is being really cheeky but if she's been wonderful up to now, I would hold your fire and try to fix it. Going forward she needs to understand that she must save her holiday days for these events if she wants to keep her job. That means always having some days in reserve. She can also prioritise which ones are really important to her. These days will only be a big deal for a short time. Provided she is otherwise great I would outline that she is being warned and will possibly lose her job if x happens as it sadly isn't working for you.

@7eleven Then she could take you to an industrial tribunal and would win. You would have to pay her money.

OP in terms of what you do, it depends whether you want to keep her or go down disciplinary. What you do depends on how easily you could find a replacement.

So she told you ,if you didn’t give her the dates she wants off ,at short notice ,she would call in sick or leave ..
im afraid I’d be looking for a new nanny after that .
you need someone you can rely on ,and that’s not her

I did get rid of a nanny for precisely this reason. It's a relationship based on trust and if she is prepared to lie there is no trust left.

She is BU. Plenty of people work full time and have reception age children, so they miss out on events like this- or take annual leave. She has potentially double the annual leave of most people and has used it all up? Her fault.

A minimum of a month’s notice and two things max per term?

I have a great, very flexible job.

I am given annual leave which I can take if it is convenient. If it's not convenient, I can't get leave.

Never in a million years would an employer agree to an arrangement where 'with a months notice, twice per term you can go off and do something which leave your job without any cover'.

That just doesn't happen. I have a job because of the things I can do. We agree hours and leave, which is taken when mutually convenient.

I agree with PP you have overdone the friendly flexible approach so she feels that she is owed time above her annual leave.

she said ‘you’ll leave me with no choice but to call in sick as I have to be there’.

I don't see how you can save the relationship from here. Best to agree terms to break up.

What did she used to do with her child before they started school?

I wouldn't want to be dictated to by my employee.
As a working parent I've had to miss some of my children's things I'd love to have gone to but you can't have it all.

As @Feef83 said the reply would be, you leave me with no choice and here’s your notice

I would seek legal advice and if you have said no to the date she wanted, nativity or craft, then is ill that day you have every right to fire her

I think it depends how much you want to keep her. Obviously going to her son's events is important to her. If you are not able to accommodate that (and I can understand if you can't) it's better if you are honest now and say so.
It may well end in her leaving so you need to be sure that is what you want

She gets 7 weeks - 35 paid days leave per annum and can't make it work, on top of extra days when you are away as a family and she is paid but not expected to work?

I think it's time to point out that she needs to get a grip. Or leave.
She needs to hold leave back for the bonkers amount of school crap that goes on every year like everyone else does.
Or she can cover the gross cost of an agency nanny which was £25 per hr when I last used one 10 yrs ago.

What's she planning on doing for the school holidays?

Blimey, if I said I was going to ring in sick if I couldn’t get time off at work then disciplinary proceedings would, quite rightly, be started against me.

You need to let her go if her time off for her child interferes with caring for your children. She has to realize that her annual leave is more than generous, and you can’t accommodate requests for more time off. It would be worth paying her an extra month or two to resolve the situation as quickly as possible under current law. Start looking for a new nanny soonest.

Sick leave is for when she is sick, not to go to events with her child. After saying that, how could you ever trust her when she's 'sick' again? She's shown that she is willing to pull a sickie. I would point out to her that doing so would be a disciplinary matter, and could result in her dismissal.

I work as a nanny and she is totally out of order. One thing that is clear to anyone doing other people's childcare, is that reliability is key, she's taking the piss, I'd get rid for a nanny with no kids.

She's decided she's got you over a barrel and is taking the piss. 7 weeks leave and she's told you she's calling in sick for a craft afternoon? Sorry but she's basically holding you hostage. The only way to do this is to refuse. I know it's an utter PITA to look for alternative childcare but she's stepped over reasonable now.

Sorry it is shit.

Come on OP we need an update.

Thanks so much everyone for your input - I appreciate it all greatly.
I am still mulling over what to do going forward - I feel like the New Year might be a good opportunity to have another conversation about expectations. The PP who pointed out this time of year is always nuts is right, and hopefully things will calm down a bit going forward.
Having said that I do feel like the relationship has changed and not for the better. I really don’t want to lose her but if this happens again I think I will have to swallow finding another nanny.

You sound very reasonable & fair OP. I just can’t see this working, most parents that work accept that they can’t go to school for every single event, during the working day, and share between them & GP etc. Good luck.

She may be a fab nanny but I fear the trust has gone

there are many other amazing nannies out there

you will find one

yes any mum wants to see their child in their nativity. Which you kindly allowed

but for craft Xmas stuff which I’m going to myself it’s not possible when work days employed

im self employed and work nights so I can do what I like during the day for my daughter

You’ve been too grateful OP. She’s confused kindness for weakness.

She is being massively cheeky!
You sound like you are a fair and generous employer, especially as you have allowed her time off for the nativity and Carol service, which would be hugely important as the child has only just started school but a crafting afternoon??? No way! The dad can go if it's that important!

I'd be sitting her down and having a very frank chat with her about how she won't be able to go to every little thing the school invites parents to.

I had to miss my DD's first ever sports day but her dad went instead. It's life.

I’m a nanny and agree with others that your nanny is being very unreasonable.
I would have allowed her time for the nativity only.
As a working parent you just don’t get to go to school events.
Using holiday is not acceptable either as usually holiday is taken as whole weeks not individual days as it would make it difficult for the employers to take time from their own job.
I think you need to look at your contract and disciplinary procedures. Even if you want to keep her I would issue a verbal warning for threatening to go off sick. You can’t just ‘get rid ‘ as others have said . After three years you need to follow employment laws.
You can make redundant is job no longer exists and pay redundancy payment . But you wouldn’t be able to employ another nanny. You would need to
offer this nanny any job even with different hours first.
So don’t loose the opportunity to use this threat as a verbal warning .
This will cause the nanny to realise she has to behave more professionally or give notice .
You would find another nanny - you sound generous employers.
The only nanny jobs hard to fill are before and after school jobs. No one wants those. A nanny has to live very close to be worth the two lots of travel.

This really isn't a redundancy situation

This is an unreasonable demands (time off during school hours for when working as a nanny for a parent with school age children ) and loss of trust (threat to phone in sick order to get those unreasonable days off)

Disciplinary procedure incl written warnings and/or compromise agreement to part amicably as the role is no longer suitable.

Not easy, but very, very simple.

Sack her with the notice period and start to look for another nanny. You are a good employer so it won’t be difficult to find another nanny. Your previous nanny can have her threat to take time off sick to attend her child’s school non parent obligatory events in any reference she might ask you for.