Ex partner wants our son 4 days of the week!

[Kimberleysmith]

My ex partner and I have separated.

To cut a very long story short, all of my family live in the Midlands and I've been living with my partner up North for 8 years. I am wanting to move back for obvious reasons; emotional support, and to be closer to my family who can help me with my almost 1 year old.

My ex partner is not happy at me wanting to move back, but what is more frustrating is, he works shifts - so four days on and then four days off, he is adamant he is entitled to have our son on his four days off?!

It doesn't matter how many times I've tried to explain this cannot happen, he will not agree to anything else. We are heading for mediation, but I'd like to know in other Mum's experience, what could be a suitable arrangement here? Would I be accommodating if I suggested two days with an over night stay?

Thank you in advance 

He is screaming at you. Can you go to your parent’s house for a break? A little space may help you both gain some perspective and give you some time to get good legal counsel. This isn’t good for you or your baby. And your baby is the important one here.

Of course it's 50/50 just not over one specific week at all times. It works out over time though and there will be periods where you have your dc 3 full weekends plus some part weekends in a row to make up for times when you might mostly have them in the week. I guess you could offer 3 days each work cycle and sell it to him as having a day to himself to get stuff done. See what he said about that. I e no idea why you think it cannot happen though. Seems a fine arrangement to me providing he is a safe and decent father

@Weegiewtf

4 on4 off is unlikely to be a 9-5 job so is unlikely to be covered by nursery or after school care. The mother is still having to change her life, work, routine etc to fit around the ex as the four days per week will never be the same and will end up eating into some of the mothers working time. Meaning she alone has to pay 100% childcare, possibly even for days the kid isn’t in because nurseries won’t change days that easily, while the dad gets to go all Disney on the kid and have fun on his days off.

Yes 50/50 is best for the child but the mother’s needs are important here too. The mother is saying she need support, whatever form that takes is not our business. The mother then will forever be at the mercy of her ex-partner’s shifts and I can’t see how that is in any way fair.

A week on and a week off is a lot for a young child to cope with and while it may work better as the child grows up for any kid under say 10 that’s going to be really unsettling.

Why is everyone saying be grateful he wants 50/50? He’s the child’s father we should not be being grateful for him looking after his own child. It’s his legal responsibility. As an ex partner however the mother has no responsibility to fit around his life and I find it really quite controlling that this is the expectation for the mother alone

Exactly this

It’s not fair because he will have zero childcare costs but the OP will face a childcare nightmare which she will have to fund singlehandedly as there will be no maintenance…

@Weegiewtf

I don't know how you ever coparent if neither parent has any responsibility to fit around the other's lives. In my experience, the co-parenting relationships that work best are ones where the two ex partners still work together for what is best for the child and that does mean working around the other parent's life. If dad has no responsibility to fit anything around OP's life then his request for 50/50 on his days off would be reasonable as you are saying he shouldn't take OP's life into account in any way.

@FatCatThinCat

50/50 isn't the issue, it's the 4 days on 4 days off that's the issue. He effectively wants 50% of the time but to leave the OP with 100% of the responsibility and childcare costs.

Exactly this.

Sorry OP, I have read all of your replys, but I had to give up on other peoples replies because they were upsetting me too much on your behalf. I have no-idea where all the mumsnetters with their obvious intelligence disappeared to last night!

This is to all the other responders who either don't have a clue or actually enjoy upsetting the OP. I know there are usually one or two of you on each thread, was it Halloween that brought you all out last night? I will attempt to be clear, but I expect to have my very first statement brought down in flames.

1. The child is still a baby, it needs it's mother far more than it needs it's father at this stage.
   (I will qualify this only for babies that for whatever reason do not have a mother around, or who tragically have an abusive mother. In those cases the baby needs it's main caregiver to be above all "squidgeably' loving, one who demonstrates their love for their child frequently and obviously, mums are often much better at that then Dads - it tends to be a female forte, although I am sure I will have plenty of mumnetters disagreeing with me. I say, "Thank goodness we do have differences in our outlooks and strengths" - a young child needs someone who will always put their child (and any other children they are the main carer of) first. I am sorry, but we can see from Mumsnet that far too many fathers are not like that. How many times will a man leave his children with their mother because he wants what he considers to be greener grass outside of their relationship? Whereas, how many times do we hear of a mother leaving a partnership, and in doing so leaves her child/ren with their father?
   Women bear children for a reason.

2. Of course this single mother needs emotional support while child rearing, not just physical support. People who want to deny her that are just being cruel. It was his choice to leave the marriage, I doubt that she deliberately made herself a single mother. Yes, sometimes a partner is driven to leave a relationship because of the other partners bad behaviour, but in nearly all cases like that, the departing partner should take their child/ren with them.

3). The ex-partner in this case wants a rolling contact with the baby. Even though the child is not yet school age, I stronly believe that no judge would think that was suitable. It would be terribly unfair on both the child and the mother.
(Note to OP, for a rolling 4 day on, 4 day off contact agreement, you need to look at it in the terms of a whole year ie. 52 weeks a year. If no change was made for holiday time, that would be you having your baby for 26 weeks, and your partner having them for 26 weeks, every year, so it does add up to 50/50 shared childcare, which I have said before I think is totally unreasonable not just for you OP, but for your baby too).

3). In my opinion, if the baby's father actually had his child's best interests at heart, he would not want to inflict such a rota on to a young child. I would even go so far as saying that because he intends to live elsewhere, and unless he is willing to be available for the child whenever it's mum may be incapacitated, and is also happy to share with, and support the OP (both emotionally and physically) whenever the child is - unwell, in some sort of trouble, or even when older, if it needs to be taken to school, or picking up from school early if they have the dentist or are unwell at school - on the days he doesn"t have them, then I strongly believe that he should encourage the OP to move 1½ hours to be near her support group.

4. I question why her ex even wants the baby that often? I can't help but be cynical that it is because he doesn't want to have to pay any maintenance (although it is a very long time since my divorce, so I don't know if the OP is on a very low income, and he is on a good one, if he would have to give her maintenance for the child anyway, but I hope he would).

5). Even if the OP's ex has been a wonderful father and homekeeper for the last year, that is no-where near long enough to judge if he would keep this up for the rest of it's childhood. What if he starts wanting to go out with friends frequently, or meets someone else, he may even have more children, will he still be willing and happy to have so much contact, and be emotionally supportive for both the child and the OP.

I think that you should definitely move OP and I don't think that a judge will agree to such a ridiculous contact arrangement. When my ex and I had shared custody, but I had day to day care, he eventually moved with his new family 2½ hours away. To his credit, he kept on picking them up every other weekend on Fridays and bringing them back on Sunday afternoons until the last one reached about 17 years old. He usually had his new wife and subsequent children with him, and they usually came in for cuppas and biscuits before making their journey back home.

Do what you need to do OP to make you a happy and fulfilled Mum, and therefore a great Mum for your child.

Re above - I had lots of 3 line spaced paragraphs, Aahh!

I can’t believe the comments here!

He wants to have his child on different days every week to suit his schedule which means the OP will struggle to get childcare, (and even if she can find childcare that flexible she will pay for it all) therefore struggle to work. How is that fucking reasonable!

If he wants his child 50:50 he has to do it on the same days which will allow OP to find childcare so she can work.

I had this exact conversation with my DP. I asked him if we split, how often would he want our child and he said half the time.

I asked how it would work and he said I'd have the child on his 4 on and he would on his 4 off.

So I asked him how is it fair he has DC 4 days, no childcare, no working during contact etc. like I would have to.

He soon realised it would be unfair on me. I can't see how PP think it's fair for 50/50 when you wouldn't have your 50% with your child like he would. And the times you wouldn't be working (weekends) he would also have the child for many/part of them.

@AgentDavid

I had this exact conversation with my DP. I asked him if we split, how often would he want our child and he said half the time.

I asked how it would work and he said I'd have the child on his 4 on and he would on his 4 off.

So I asked him how is it fair he has DC 4 days, no childcare, no working during contact etc. like I would have to.

He soon realised it would be unfair on me. I can't see how PP think it's fair for 50/50 when you wouldn't have your 50% with your child like he would. And the times you wouldn't be working (weekends) he would also have the child for many/part of them.

This.

I haven’t read all the responses so forgive me if this has already been covered. But maybe get another solicitor’s advice. I’m not in the U.K. and here it is standard that the parent moving away will lose custody if the other parent contests in court.
Im not proposing that is the case in the U.K. but given your ex wants more than 50% you need to be confident of the implications of your plans to move.

OP. I do really sympathise with you. I can’t imagine the prospect of being away from a 1 year old for such long stretches. I’m not against 50/50 but I do think it’s more effective for older children, 1 is too young for that kind of set up.

Is there no way he could have the child two nights in the week and then every other weekend? On the week where he doesn’t have your son on the weekend, he could do three nights in the week?

Then you both get a chance to have him on the weekend. There are ways of working this so that you do get quality time with your son, if 50/50 is inevitable, it doesn’t mean it has to be 4 days in a row as your ex is suggesting.

Surely you can meet in the middle and do something that resembles 50/50 but is fairer in that you both get good quality time with your son. Perhaps suggest this at mediation.

@crikeycrumbsblimey

I can’t believe the comments here!

He wants to have his child on different days every week to suit his schedule which means the OP will struggle to get childcare, (and even if she can find childcare that flexible she will pay for it all) therefore struggle to work. How is that fucking reasonable!

If he wants his child 50:50 he has to do it on the same days which will allow OP to find childcare so she can work.

The dad works 12 he shifts though. Dc would spend entire days/nights in someone else's care rather than being with either parent which makes no sense. I do think that the father should take equal responsibility for the childcare arrangements though by paying half over and helping to source. OP doesn't mention a job though so I'm assuming this isn't a current problem.

I think I need to read up on my rights as a Mother...

They are exactly the same as his rights as a father. Family court did not care a jot about either. They are focussed on the rights of the child.

Hi @Kimberleysmith I hope you’re feeling ok as you’ve had a bit of a mixed bag here but in amidst it you’ve also had so very good advice.

Things to take to mediation:
His suggestion is unworkable and whilst it will be amazing for him getting all the fun stuff it’s crap for you having to find childcare if you work and not necessarily getting any time off with DS if xdp has him over a weekend.

His suggestion is completely unworkable when ds goes to nursery or school and has social commitments of his own, which will happen sooner rather than later. Toddler gym, swimming lessons etc, all of which will be on fixed days.

Childminders etc do not tend to offer flexibility of days to fit in around shift work

You moving nearer your family can still be workable as long as you have fixed days per week that allow you to assist with travel between the 2 of you and you are happy to allow more flexibility for XDP for holidays.

Don’t get into verbal arguments with him, it’s worth neither your time nor the impact on your mental health but put any suggestions in writing if necessary via your solicitor.

Good luck 💐

@betterwithage

Why are most posters attacking this mother. She requested assistance, not to be attacked.

Because this is Mumsnet

For those who say the dad should take the child on days he is working and not get access on his days off, I doubt OP wants to send her one year old to dads to spend 3 consecutive days in 13 hour a day childcare just to prove a point that she isn't going to let him see the child on his days off. At least most parents wouldn't want that.

And if this was a dad saying he was taking the child and moving away, and Op was the one working shifts, I doubt the advice to dad would be to not be flexible in any way, to not let her see the child on her days off, to make her work for it and not accommodate her access in any way, and to not feel any responsibility to fit anything to her life and to just always do what works best for him.

4 days on for days off is 50/50, there being 7 days in the weeks doesn't really mater (7 can't be split by 2) 🤔.

I think moving away would be selfish, I know you want to be near family bit sadly that would mean taking your son away from his father and his father has just as much right as you do to see his son. I understand how hard it must be for you, I would want to be near my family too but you need to do what's best for your son, you chose to move away and have your son in a different part of the country, it would be cruel to move him away from his father and his father's family.

A lot of parents now have 50/50 contact, it works well, kids adapt easily. I've always had my kids 6 days a week whilst ex has them 1, he never has them over night. I haven't had a night away from them for 15 years. I would have loved for him to have had them more so I could have worked and had a social life. Think of what you would gain from 50/50 and what your son would gain rather than what you would loose ?

Hi OP,
Yes he can ask for this, shift patterns will make it much harder to manage however as less consistency in terms of routine as they get older. .. sorry to be cynical and this is not a reflection on your ex motives necessarily as I’m sure he’s a good father but how many nights children spend with each parent over the year has a big impact on the amount of child maintenance parents pay obviously. If your ex didn’t do shifts I’d suggest a friday to Monday overnight arrangement which will work much better once school starts - alternative wkends with overnights during the week too x

He may be wanting the 4 days only because if he does… you pay maintenance to him and he gets tax credits and child benefit.

Sadly put, some parents only want more contact to avoid the financial commitment. I find it impossible for him to believe such shift pattern would be good for a child he is not the primary carer of unless he doesn’t know what taking care of a child involves, is very selfish or have financial interests.

You may not be able to say a full no without a problem but I suggest you say “let’s start with two days and move up when we see how is going / DC is adapting”.

Moving back home may not be an option without his agreement though.

He may be wanting the 4 days only because if he does… you pay maintenance to him and he gets tax credits and child benefit.

Why would he get maintenance? It’s 50:50. Some people seem to struggle to understand that not everyone works Monday to Friday 9-5

And if you move away, once your child is at school you are basically saying he can’t see them for weeks at a time when his shifts fall on a weekend for a couple of weeks in a row. That’s pretty awful

Im probably just an old cynic but if he does get the 50/50 split it won't suit him once he gets a new girlfriend/finds out having his child for four days straight restricts his social life / is bloody tiring!

@ChikiTIKI

Wow people are being so horrible on here... Your ex lives on an 8 day week but unfortunately for him the rest of the world have a 7 day week. If he wants to take care of his child 50% of the time he will either have to change jobs or find some very flexible childcare. He can't expect his ex to facilitate his career... What an entitled prick. He needs to wake up!!

"The rest of the world have a 7 day week"???

What about doctors, nurses, care workers, police, fire service, factory workers, national grid workers, lorry drivers, etc., etc.

Millions upon millions of people work all sorts of shift patterns which don't involve the same days each week,

12% of workers do shifts involving full night shifts, for a start.

Not in the rarified world of MN of course - where everyone is a WFH high-flying lawyer or accountant - but in the real world more and more people work differing patterns each year.

The TUC talk about and research this regularly so the data is out there.

Ps. Didn’t move back home because I wanted my child to have contact with his dad. Contact he only used to either neglect or abuse my son until his dad play the ultimate card of refusing contact but even then I couldn’t move back as by then my child was settled where we are and there was a court order preventing me taking a way that I couldn’t challenge due to lack of funds and the fear of the nightmare re starting.

Children have the right to have contact with both parents if the contact is good for the child. Sadly, it is not a given that are all mums and dads are good enough parents, some times the best thing for kids is not to see one or either so put your child always first, eventually things will fall into place.