Ex partner wants our son 4 days of the week!

[Kimberleysmith]

My ex partner and I have separated.

To cut a very long story short, all of my family live in the Midlands and I've been living with my partner up North for 8 years. I am wanting to move back for obvious reasons; emotional support, and to be closer to my family who can help me with my almost 1 year old.

My ex partner is not happy at me wanting to move back, but what is more frustrating is, he works shifts - so four days on and then four days off, he is adamant he is entitled to have our son on his four days off?!

It doesn't matter how many times I've tried to explain this cannot happen, he will not agree to anything else. We are heading for mediation, but I'd like to know in other Mum's experience, what could be a suitable arrangement here? Would I be accommodating if I suggested two days with an over night stay?

Thank you in advance 

Hi Op. Me and ex did 4 days on, 4 days off at first. It worked because my child was older and as long as I listed the days a half term in advance it was fine.

Trying to do it with younger childcare would be a nightmare. I know no nurseries that would accommodate this.

The other downside was there would bea few weeks where I felt I hardly saw ds. I would have Sunday afternoon to school drop off Thursday. Then the week after, Monday when I finished work to Friday morning drop off. Then Tuesday to mid day Saturday. Those 3 weeks were awful.

We changed it to set days and it was much better for all of us.

The thing with splitting childcare is that what's works for parents may not be in the best interests for the child. Individual hidden react differently. And as children get older, things change. My dd is 18. But ds is 11 and here for the majority of the time now.

The stability at my house is far better for him. Exh, thankfully accepted that 50:50 and moving his stuff from one house to the other wasn't working for ds. CMS wasn't an issue for him. He is self employed so knew I would barely get anything 🙄.

On the moving, he could try and a prohibitive steps order. No one can say wether he would win or not.

Its not really about the rights of the mother or the father. Its about what's best for the child.

One I think I can say is that children know who is putting them first and which parent is more interested in their own rights over the child.

You do need to know your rights and responsibilities. So you know how to navigate this. He may want 50:50 on 4 days off 4 days on. But that doesn't mean its in the best interests of the child. Especially, if it makes working difficult for the other parent.

Unless he will be more reasonable about discussing what works for all of you, it may need to go down the route of having something formal put in place.

Woah. Some of these responses are batty!

Firstly, 50/50 is NOT in a child's best interests when that child is under two (and a fair body of research indicates it isn't in their best interests at any age because children benefit from having a primary home). Separating a kid from their primary care giver 50% of the time and overnights us a recipe for attachment issues.

Secondly, OP can move where she bloody well chooses.

Thirdly, it absolutely would not be fair to let this guy call all the shots. So he gets every day off with his kid and you get none some weeks? Insanity.

I'd start, OP, from the position that your DC is too young for 50/50. Look at the research on the impacts of this for young children. I believe it's a recommendation that there's no 50/50 until age 2/3 but get yourself a lawyer and check that. However, if you move away, doing it with no overnights might be trickier, so consider putting the move off until your kid is older.

After that point, your ex can reasonably expect 50/50 care, but that won't all be his way. Insist on a set pattern over 2 weeks that everyone can get used to, rather than a rolling system where sometimes the kid gets time with you and sometimes he doesn't. When he starts school, I don't see 50/50 working at all owing to the distance of commute so you might then need to look at divvying up school holidays to make it a bit fairer. Good luck.

Correction at end of first paragraph. Should read:

Separating a baby from their primary care giver 50% of the time and overnights is a recipe for attachment issues.

Your child is very young, and things will change in future.

If your ex-partner is a good dad, make the very most of his positive attachment in these early days. Don’t the say the first 1000 days of a child’s life is the most important?

Perhaps a fairer split is that you both get the child for the same number of non-working days. If you can make it work (you’d need a flexible employer!) could this not help you save on childcare costs?

When your little one is older, and harder work, you might welcome the greater input.

My partner died 6 weeks shy of my son’s second birthday, so I’m maybe not the most objective. It’s sounds like a very messy situation, so good luck to you.

@ThirdElephant

I work with nurses who all work shift work and those that have shared custody do not do set schedules. Often the nurses work 3 twelve hour shifts in a row - it would make no sense for them to have their kids those days and be in childcare for 14 hours - so their kids are with their dads then. Their custody schedules change with their work schedules as none work the same shifts each week. There are millions of people who work shift work - health care professionals, first responders etc and that definitely gets taken into account when deciding custody schedules.

I think you need a decent lawyer. Fitting in around his shifts will not only mean you might get no weekends but also you will be unable to book childcare as the days change every week, while he’s assuming he doesn’t have a childcare problem as you will be there whenever needed. For me that would be completely not an option, you’re not there to facilitate his work and he’s not offering to facilitate you to work. So set days a week and he would have to sort childcare for his shifts just like you will when you find work.

He’s a parent too so entitled to argue he wants the 4 days instead of the 3 days. What are you proposing as an alternative?
Of course you are entitled to move but where would that leave schooling for your son? What would you do if the dad wanted to move 1.5 hours away? I guess you have a couple of years where you could at the middle point to do the handover if he’s only 1.

@C8H10N4O2

Given that the op hasn't been back we don't actually know what support the ex has refused. He may well have meant she needs to get a job and fund herself as he won't be paying her housing costs or food bill, which is reasonable

Yes the OP needs to work after taking time out to bear and care for his child. However he is making it difficult for her to find work by imposing that pattern on her availability/costs.

He says he won't support, at 50/50 he knows he won't have to stump up for CM. He should be paying half the childcare costs at the very least - that may cause him to rethink demanding all his days when it suits him instead of sharing the off days and teh work days.

Which I said she needs to sort at mediation.

But I'm fed up of Croatian when men want 50/59 that they are in it for themselves and not their children.

And I say that as someone who was left a LP raising a disabled child from when he was 1 yr old and ended up moving 2000 miles back home for support.

I did that because My ex wouldn't have da or provide support but I tried to fight for equal care and equal responsibility though the courts.

I would have loved my da to have did dad in his life.

I've seen so many other families where they've worked 50/50 and the children have relationships with both parents and others where the dad wants 50/59 and the mum does everything to make that difficult.

The latter situation the kids always end off worse. They feel like they have to take sides.

OP I only got though reading half the replies on this thread so apologies if someone has told you all this amongst the ill-informed and uncaring responses.

I'm a single mum and have a lot of experience of mediation and family courts.

Everything needs to be framed around the child's best interests. Parents have responsibilities not rights. Bear that in mind when putting your case forward to your ex or to the court, if it comes to that. You need to be able to reasonably argue what you are proposing will be best for the child.

The 4/4 model isn't workable longterm. It might suit the father. He could argue it suits your DC but it doesn't suit you for the reasons some PPs have stated, because you would have to manage your life around his shifts. Therefore it's not a solution that allows you to work and plan your own life to support your DC. The courts will tend to look at how the week splits so those saying 4/4 is 50/50 and workable aren't being helpful. A child needs consistency and certainty, and a different schedule every week doesn't support that.

I suspect he's saying he wants 4/4 to be difficult because you've said you want to move, but wanting to have things his way isn't centring your DC. As you've been told, he won't need to pay anything in maintenance if you have a 50/50 arrangement, so that may also suit him.

You need a longterm solution. DC is small now, but any contact arrangements that start now set a precedent, so you should be thinking about what happens when your DC is at school. It will be difficult to argue cutting down contact with your ex further down the line.

50/50 isn't the starting point for small children and IMO isn't the best solution for little ones. To the PPs suggesting a week on, week off, no court would order that for a 1yo. The court is more likely to award more time to the primary carer, perhaps with a view to that changing as the child gets older.

Mediation probably won't resolve this if there isn't a compromise to be reached and it may end up in court. I think a lot of people who haven't been through mediation misunderstand what's involved. Mediators aren't there to advise. They are there to mediate without taking sides.

If you can afford a solicitor, find one who can give you useful advice and support. That might not be the first solicitor you speak to.

I can underatand why you want to move nearer your family but unfortunately it isn't straightforward and would mean a lot of travelling back and forth for the whole of your DC's childhood. You would need a strong case if you wanted to propose to the court that you move away and be the resident parent with majorty care, such as a job etc that would allow you to provide a better life for your child. I'm sure you feel trapped by that but this is the unfortunate outcome for a lot of people when relationships break down.

And if he earns more he'll still have to pay CM if he earns more.

My friend is a single parent by choice and works shift work. When she works long shifts on a row, her child stays with grandparents and when she doesn't work, her child is home with her. Her child is now 4 and happy and well adjusted as can be despite going back and forth between two homes on no set schedule. The child doesn't have a calendar or agenda or keep track of days of the week - all she knows is that when mommy works, she goes to grandmas and when mommy doesn't work, she is at home with her. She talks about it in terms of sleeps. Two sleeps at grandmas then mommy is home. It is all she has ever known so it doesn't phase her in the least. She is completely happy and relaxed in both homes.

Wow people are being so horrible on here... Your ex lives on an 8 day week but unfortunately for him the rest of the world have a 7 day week. If he wants to take care of his child 50% of the time he will either have to change jobs or find some very flexible childcare. He can't expect his ex to facilitate his career... What an entitled prick. He needs to wake up!!

@Doyoumind your right. In order to be able to go mediation you need to be amicable.

OP needs to go to court or the ex needs to present his case. One parent needs to retrieve a C100 form from a mediation session in order to be able to apply to the Courts. This takes months to get a date and it may cost OP and her EX

OP and her ex need something that is legally binding mediation is unable to provide parents with a child arrangement order.

[quote Midlifemusings]@ThirdElephant

I work with nurses who all work shift work and those that have shared custody do not do set schedules. Often the nurses work 3 twelve hour shifts in a row - it would make no sense for them to have their kids those days and be in childcare for 14 hours - so their kids are with their dads then. Their custody schedules change with their work schedules as none work the same shifts each week. There are millions of people who work shift work - health care professionals, first responders etc and that definitely gets taken into account when deciding custody schedules.[/quote]
It also makes no sense for OP to have her kid Monday to Thursday, with the kid in childcare all day, while not having her DC on any of her days off.

@ChikiTIKI

The courts do not agree with you that shift workers should be denied parental rights. Shift work is part of many important professions and is a reality that the courts and mediators take into account. As I said, I work with nurses who share custody and none have been told by the courts that they must change jobs to have access to their children.
Barring harmful behaviour, it is pretty accepted that it is in the best interest of the child to develop strong attachments and have a relationship with both parents - which requires spending time with them.

@ThirdElephant

I agree it wouldn't. Since he is on a rotating schedule - his days off are going to change every week - so I don't know where you are getting it from that she would only ever see her child Monday to Thursday. They / the courts / mediator will work out a schedule that gives both parents time with the child. No court is going to deny him parental access because he works shift work or insist on a set schedule regardless of the circumstances of the case. Just like if OP worked shift work, that would also be taken into account.

@MobyDicksTinyCanoe

I don't think you have an automatic right to having him more because you want to take him away from everything he knows....... Why cant you have him friday to Sunday every other weekend and split the school holidays? 🤔

OP can still move and do an arrangement like this. EOW is what a lot of parents do anyway.

90 mind travel isn't too bad. People are behaving as though it's 3 hours. Does nobody commute to work and sit in track?

OP wants to go back to her home town just like the dad is free to move anyway or do posters think he would never move either for work... or his personal life

@midlifemusings I'm not saying he shouldn't be allowed to care for his child... I am saying that will require arranging childcare when he is working, which is what all other single parents do. Working while you have kids is part of life. He can't expect to only have responsibility for his child on his days off. Thats being entitled and unreasonable.

I can see why you would want to move . But when you have a child the child has to come first.
I would stay where you are and try the four days on and see how it works it’s not just your baby .

@ChikiTIKI

Right and neither can OP expect the same. The argument was that he couldn't go to dads for 4 days because on some weeks this would mean OP would need childcare and only see her child after work. As you say this is just the reality for working parents and so this is the reality for OP as well as for the child's father. OP can't say she wants to have the child when she is off work but then argue against dad having the child when he is off work

And then you have the fact that the OP will have weekends off work that she cant spend with her child as he is with her ex, and during those same weeks she will be working during "her" time with him

The OP has every weekend off. a 4 on 4off shift means that the father will be working for some of the weekend a lot of the time. I'm surprised that this has been overlooked, eg

Father works Mon- Thursday- has Friday - Mon off then works Tues - Fri - has Sat - Tues Off, Works Wed - Saturday has...well you get the picture.
The Op will have ample times when she has the child for some of the weekend. Going forward if he his still on those shifts when the child is at nursery/school then the father will have less time to see the child than the mother. I'm surprised a lot of posters don't see that.

I'm sorry your post has been invaded by the hard of thinking,

Of course 4 days on, 4 days off isn't fair. It means everyone is accommodating his lifestyle so he gets maximum time with his DS, to everyone else's detriment.

If you agree to this, he's effectively giving you responsibility for all childcare costs while making a weekly routine and finding childcare that will work with this set up difficult.

50-50 means taking responsibility for childcare on the days you're not available.

What he's suggesting casts you as support human to his life, ignoring your needs entirely (a problem a lot of men seem to have, thinking women are there to serve them, not people in our own right). I'm sorry there are so many apologists for male entitlement on this thread, it's obvious feminism still has a lot of work to do!

It's totally understandable that you want to move near your family.

If he works a strange shift set up, he needs to arrange childcare on the days he's at work. This is his problem not yours. If it doesn't work, he needs to look for a new job.

Thank you for noticing. What a horrendous experience, never again

@Kimberleysmith sorry that you feel you’ve had an horrendous experience from MN.

When reading the posts, you have to remember the word “context”. Advice is being given & judgement made on limited information. Your emotions and ‘real life’ experiences are not necessarily included or considered in that advice sometimes, so you’re reading very black and white advice from posters - some who have experience themselves, others who merely have an opinion.

Remember, 100 people in a room can have a different opinion on the colour of the sky! No one is going to be right - only you know the full story and situation.

Take it on the chin - reread the thread from the start when you feel in a better head space, and take the emotion out of it when you read the thread, as actually there is some good advice.

Additionally - not sure if you’ve used your real name, but I’d somehow address that if you have (eg request for thread to be deleted)

Any break up is hard, exhausting and emotional. Working out how to co parent for the next 18 years is tough. Go easy on yourself. Hope everything gets sorted for you soon

‘ he is adamant he is entitled to have our son on his four days off?! ’

Not so exactly this.

What is in the best interests of the child is the foremost ‘entitlement’.

Good that you are looking into mediation, but for your own peace of mind I suggest that you book a session with a solicitor who specialises in family law so that you have the benefit of sound advice about the law & best practice. First session to get advice might be free.

An independent eye might look at your situation & see that you moving back close to family gives both you & baby considerable emotional & practical support, & Dad can travel to visit his child on one of his four day breaks. This arrangement would allow him to keep his current employment contract with time & space for a personal life. Such an arrangement would be in best interests of the child as there is loving & consistent care & stable environment.

Mediation may help him come to terms with the changes in your shared circumstances, but only maybe. So get prepared by having best legal advice in your ‘back pocket’ so you stay on top of the situation.

Alas, from my observation I have seen several fathers want 50/50 responsibility but cannot get it together sustainably as they underestimate how much is required to make that arrangement work to the benefit of the child. I have known one father sustain 50/50 & he undertook several changes in work, living arrangements & career expectations to make this happen from the outset, he was absolutely determined to make the situation work. He was completely committed to his child’s well-being, it was just his ex-wife he could not stand. He divorced her, not his son.

@doyoumind the most sensible post here

OP. Maybe start your planning again. You need to take into account that your ex may push for 50:50. But also that your DC will go to school in three years and any arrangement has to allow for that.

Also bear in mind that your ex may not actually want 50:50, he may just want to avoid paying you CM. When it comes to rearranging his life to care for his child he might drop the demand. Mine did.

It's unlikely that a court will order access around your ex's work shifts, jobs & shifts change, and it won't work with school..

Can you live somewhere that is half way between the two? Make commuting more reasonable? Look at costs as well.

And then take all your research and ideas to a solicitor.