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Ex partner wants our son 4 days of the week!

398 replies

Kimberleysmith · 30/10/2021 19:54

My ex partner and I have separated.

To cut a very long story short, all of my family live in the Midlands and I've been living with my partner up North for 8 years. I am wanting to move back for obvious reasons; emotional support, and to be closer to my family who can help me with my almost 1 year old.

My ex partner is not happy at me wanting to move back, but what is more frustrating is, he works shifts - so four days on and then four days off, he is adamant he is entitled to have our son on his four days off?!

It doesn't matter how many times I've tried to explain this cannot happen, he will not agree to anything else. We are heading for mediation, but I'd like to know in other Mum's experience, what could be a suitable arrangement here? Would I be accommodating if I suggested two days with an over night stay?

Thank you in advance 

OP posts:
Sally090807 · 31/10/2021 07:29

If you are moving 90 minutes away will you not have to find a new job or do you work from home?
I’d also be grateful the father wants to be in your child’s life, the father of my two did not and the long term effects of his choice have really impacted on my children.

GrandmasCat · 31/10/2021 07:32

@Mrbob

He may be wanting the 4 days only because if he does… you pay maintenance to him and he gets tax credits and child benefit.

Why would he get maintenance? It’s 50:50. Some people seem to struggle to understand that not everyone works Monday to Friday 9-5

And if you move away, once your child is at school you are basically saying he can’t see them for weeks at a time when his shifts fall on a weekend for a couple of weeks in a row. That’s pretty awful

If it is absolute 50/50 nobody pays maintenance but keeping an absolute 50/50 in the long run is a minefield if one parent is financially motivated and you are working shifts. I know a man who offered to take care of the child for two nights a week while his exW was doing a 2 weeks training, then claimed the extra 4 days a year made him the resident parent and changed TC and CB to himself. Undoing that mess took months were the mum almost lost the house she shared with her child as she was no longer entitled to financial help (the dad was not in that bad position as he kept the former marital home and as usual, was the one with the higher income)
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 31/10/2021 07:32

he is adamant he is entitled to have our son on his four days off

Your son is not a possession for him to demand his share of! The baby’s needs are the most important factor. Your XP ended the relationship, and says he will not support you. Of course you want to go home, left on your own with a baby. XP is being unreasonable.

You and DS need to be living in a place where you have family and support. XP can travel 90 mins, that’s not difficult.

Do make sure you get a good solicitor. Try for recommendations, from friends or on Mumsnet.

Starblind19 · 31/10/2021 07:33

Shame on you a forum for women harping on about men's rights. We don't even know what kind of dad he was. We're expected to act like he's a national hero because he's making entitled demands. Disgusting. And actually I think a lot of you are neglecting the fact the child is a baby most judges would only go up to a 60/40 split. Let's see how damaged people are in a few years down to the 50/50 split. All you women saying you would have loved this arrangement. Full of shit. Yeh let's carry our babies for 9 months. Destroy our bodies be the sole care giver. And then just hand them over like it's property. There is no entitlement of rights here. Its a crock of shite. 50/50 doesn't work best for kids at all.

Sorry you find yourself in a position that I am in, constant threats. Shouting on the door step about all the rights they have because the baby is half theirs. Never once stopping to think about what is actually in the best interests of the child. You. You are the best interests of your child who has only known you there every day. I'd be tempted to just move and give him an address. That way you are still keeping the lanes of contact open.

I can't believe people expect you to have no days free with your child. Pay for childcare and accommodate his lifestyle. Because we know sure as shit if the tables were turned he would be gone. Get yourself around your family.

GrandmasCat · 31/10/2021 07:35

@Doyoumind

OP I only got though reading half the replies on this thread so apologies if someone has told you all this amongst the ill-informed and uncaring responses.

I'm a single mum and have a lot of experience of mediation and family courts.

Everything needs to be framed around the child's best interests. Parents have responsibilities not rights. Bear that in mind when putting your case forward to your ex or to the court, if it comes to that. You need to be able to reasonably argue what you are proposing will be best for the child.

The 4/4 model isn't workable longterm. It might suit the father. He could argue it suits your DC but it doesn't suit you for the reasons some PPs have stated, because you would have to manage your life around his shifts. Therefore it's not a solution that allows you to work and plan your own life to support your DC. The courts will tend to look at how the week splits so those saying 4/4 is 50/50 and workable aren't being helpful. A child needs consistency and certainty, and a different schedule every week doesn't support that.

I suspect he's saying he wants 4/4 to be difficult because you've said you want to move, but wanting to have things his way isn't centring your DC. As you've been told, he won't need to pay anything in maintenance if you have a 50/50 arrangement, so that may also suit him.

You need a longterm solution. DC is small now, but any contact arrangements that start now set a precedent, so you should be thinking about what happens when your DC is at school. It will be difficult to argue cutting down contact with your ex further down the line.

50/50 isn't the starting point for small children and IMO isn't the best solution for little ones. To the PPs suggesting a week on, week off, no court would order that for a 1yo. The court is more likely to award more time to the primary carer, perhaps with a view to that changing as the child gets older.

Mediation probably won't resolve this if there isn't a compromise to be reached and it may end up in court. I think a lot of people who haven't been through mediation misunderstand what's involved. Mediators aren't there to advise. They are there to mediate without taking sides.

If you can afford a solicitor, find one who can give you useful advice and support. That might not be the first solicitor you speak to.

I can underatand why you want to move nearer your family but unfortunately it isn't straightforward and would mean a lot of travelling back and forth for the whole of your DC's childhood. You would need a strong case if you wanted to propose to the court that you move away and be the resident parent with majorty care, such as a job etc that would allow you to provide a better life for your child. I'm sure you feel trapped by that but this is the unfortunate outcome for a lot of people when relationships break down.

^ that, 1000 times
Coursepregnancy1 · 31/10/2021 07:37

Hi Op,

The majority of responses here are crazy and if I was you I’d ask for the thread to be deleted.

Your child is 1 years old, they need to be with their primary care giver the majority of their time, which I’m assuming is you. That does not mean they don’t deserve a relationship with your father, but you are not sharing a PlayStation - your infant has developmental and emotional needs that trump both of your wants. This means that you both will need to be flexible and adjust any arrangement as your child grows.

50 50 is not in the best interests of such a young child. Spending 4 days away from you (again assuming you are the primary caregiver) is insane in my eyes, especially as it sounds like your child is not in nursery so has never spent significant time away from you. A judge (luckily) is better educated than the average poster here and will likely be aware of this.

Maxiedog123 · 31/10/2021 07:37

I've done rolling rosters like your partner 4 days on, 4 days off. Each fortnight the work days are different. Makes childcare impossible.
I be always thought it was I work in a field where the managers are men , have SAHM wives and I have never thought about it as an issue.
When I was pregnant I found a job ( not as good otherwise) with the same hours each week and when resigning I had to draw a diagram to explain to my manager the problem He had absolutely no concept that daycare or childminders needed to be paid for fixed times each week.
If your partner wants shared care of your child he will have to do what I did , get a job with regular hours, even if it is a stepdown

queenMab99 · 31/10/2021 07:38

4 days off 4 days on sounds reasonable, but it is not practical, unless the mother worked the opposite shifts in a similar job, which is highly unlikely, and even then, how would the handover work? Should a mother suspend her ability to move on with work and her life, to accommodate a controlling exhusband, under the guise of doing the best for her son. The best for her son is that they can both work and parent in a reasonable, if not exactly equal in time, way.

Snog · 31/10/2021 07:42

If you work Monday - Friday and in due course your child will be at school Mon - Fri then your ex needs to work around this standard pattern. It will be awkward for him unless he changes job. Shift patterns like this are very difficult to fit with childcare unfortunately. If he had full custody he would presumably find it extremely difficult to find childcare to fit.

Moving for extra support has its advantages but the flip side is that it is a further barrier to your DC spending time with their dad. Good luck OP.

TeachesOfPeaches · 31/10/2021 07:45

If you get to court whatever you say has to relate to being in the best interests of the child. That's all the court cares about.

BunNcheese · 31/10/2021 07:45

@Sally090807

If you are moving 90 minutes away will you not have to find a new job or do you work from home? I’d also be grateful the father wants to be in your child’s life, the father of my two did not and the long term effects of his choice have really impacted on my children.
OP shouldn't be "grateful" nobody thanks us women so why are we holding the fathers up on a pedestal for something he has not done yet? The baby is only 1 so something went wrong some where.

Anyway co parenting is incredibly difficult and stressful so whilst you may "wish" that's looking from outside POV. Dragging your personal life through the Courts is a long process and it's so stressful until things get put in place (I did it). You need to have co parented to know how all is not what it seems.

Yogawankonobi · 31/10/2021 07:52

It looks like you are doing all of the compromising. His job trumps your son.

Both myself and my ex work shifts. We used to have the children when we weren’t working with no set pattern but it wasn’t working for one dc (asd) so we had to rethink. Luckily we live a few miles apart so are able to do week on, week off.

lisaandalan · 31/10/2021 07:53

I would not let it happen myself, go to CAB for advice or ask a solicitor for a one off appointment for advice,
Do you let him make you do something you don't want to even if it goes to mediation or court. Let them decide.

welliesarefuntowear · 31/10/2021 07:55

Jesus there's a lot of stupid projecting on this thread.

OP you're not getting a lot of support here from what I can see. You're on your own with a tiny child after moving away from your family 8 years ago. Of course wanting to move back to have support from your family is reasonable. So what's his response? 50/50 childcare? Was he hands on before? Did he pitch i with night feeds and nappy changes? Is he going to facilitate your return to work and help you with childcare? I suspect not. Get some legal advice.

lisaandalan · 31/10/2021 07:56

He also might want him 50/50 so he doesn't have to pay child support.

Kdubs1981 · 31/10/2021 07:59

@Mrbob

With women like you lot it amazes me men ever want to have children. It really is all about you isn’t it? Couched in “but what about the children”
Thanks for your co tribute on to the discussion 🤣
welliesarefuntowear · 31/10/2021 08:01

"He also might want him 50/50 so he doesn't have to pay child support."

This was my first thought. It's a common tactic. Of course he may well be father of the year.

chaosrabbitland · 31/10/2021 08:21

personally i dont think this 4 days with one parent and the rest with another parent work , all children need routine and stablity and they dont get that when they are living in two seperate houses , no sooner getting settled at one and then having to move back to another
i havent really been on mumsnet that long ,but in that time though iv seen two threads from mums dealing with upset kids who are living between two households , one told her mum she wanted to stay with her and just visit dad

when these 50/50s are set up its almost never about what is best for the child and almost certainly whats best for the most dominant aggresive parent demanding it to punish the other one ,

it still amazes me that family courts give them , theres no thought to it at all , just oh each parent has kid equally thats fair and its best for the kid ,

i havent got any practical advice , i just wanted to offer my support .
if hes only started wanting the 4 days since you mentioned moving , is it worth rethinking it ,if he will drop it and settle for eow , ?
im wondering really if hes bringing it up as a way of control
i hope mediation helps xx

Wensleydalecheesedoff · 31/10/2021 08:24

Tough gig, everyone has an opinion. What you’ve earned here is a great big pile of reading, what you actually need is.

  1. Mediation/agreement
  2. Solicitors (if the agreement fails)
  3. Good luck

Good luck 🤞

MangoIce · 31/10/2021 08:28

If he’s working 12 hour days, 4 days on 4 days off, it makes sense for him to have his ds on his days off. He wouldn’t see him otherwise. Do you work? If so, you would only put your ds in nursery anyway.

welliesarefuntowear · 31/10/2021 08:42

"He wouldn’t see him otherwise. Do you work? If so, you would only put your ds in nursery anyway."

The OP is never ever going to be able to find a childcare arrangement to facilitate a return to work if she is forced to agree to this. It leaves the OP stuck, powerless and in financial poverty. It's just not a reasonable request.

Lockdownbear · 31/10/2021 08:42

@crikeycrumbsblimey

I can’t believe the comments here!

He wants to have his child on different days every week to suit his schedule which means the OP will struggle to get childcare, (and even if she can find childcare that flexible she will pay for it all) therefore struggle to work. How is that fucking reasonable!

If he wants his child 50:50 he has to do it on the same days which will allow OP to find childcare so she can work.

This in a nutshell.

Op is entitled to live where she wants, the fact she moved to be with him doesn't dictate she has to stay in the vicinity.
I don't think people really get that 4 days on 4 offs mean the days move by one day every week. That doesn't work for nursery or schools, who operate the same days every week.

Op ultimately you aren't being unreasonable to want to be near your family. I think this will end up in court just make sure you bash it all out in one go, access, travel, Christmas / Birthdays and holidays.

Sparklfairy · 31/10/2021 08:43

So he works nights, and sleeps in the day when he's 4 days on?

I think reality might be a bit of a shock to him. If he finishes at 6am on day 4, when is he going to sleep, and when is he going to see DC?

Nights are really tough, and to some extent you have to keep roughly to the same sleeping pattern if you don't want to really struggle either when off or going back on.

It sounds like you're both being stubborn and locking horns. None of this is good for DC. If I finished work at 6am, I'm not sure how I'd be working contact - possibly a day to move my sleeping pattern to slightly more 'sociable' hours, then two days with DC, then a day to get back to work sleeping routine.

Do not suggest this to him by the way. If he thinks it was your idea he sounds the type to dig his heels in. However you could point out at mediation that a sleep deprived grumpy dad is no good for your child and a compromise needs to be found.

midsummabreak · 31/10/2021 08:44

You will get through this ! Stay strong-You have everything you need, with your courage, love and compassion to raise your child with your head held high, despite the nasty comments currently coming from your child’s Dad. With moving closer to your supportive family who have your back. this will benefit your child in countless ways.
Yes, of course you need to work with the child’s father in the interests of your child, but equally he must work also with you in the interests of the child.

Great that solicitor stated that moving to your supportive family is quite acceptable
While your child’s Dad wants 4 days, 50 % on days that benefit both parents is most he can expect

ilovepuppies2019 · 31/10/2021 08:45

If you go ahead with mediation then the Court will be focused on the best interests of the child. Your Ex's plan sounds like it is not in your child's best interests. Four days on and four days off means that the days that your child is with each parent will keep changing. This will make it almost impossible to place him in childcare and kindergarten or attend programs. This will have a negative impact on your child. I would suggest that this is how you present the problem to the mediator. You can also be very clear that this arrangement would substantially prohibit you from working which would negatively affect your ability to provide for your son. I can't imagine that you could work if you couldn't promise a workplace consistent days.

Your son deserves to be consistently attending high quality toddler programs / playgroups / childcare / kinder (in a few years). These run on consistent days of the week so you need to be able to plan for this. Consistency and routine is also to his benefit. It will be difficult to attend grandparent's houses, attend family functions or enjoy days out if the schedule is constantly changing.

YADNBU OP as this plan is madness and ONLY suits your Ex. I would head into mediation with some clear examples of why this changing schedule wouldn't be in the best interests of your son from the above perspectives. I would also have a clear alternative and some points on which you are willing to negotiate. Moving 90 minutes away is likely to be a big bone of contention. It's a long distance for a very young child on such as regular basis. I had to travel about 30-40 minutes each way after school for access every week and I hated it. I think that you might need to be prepared to do all the travelling or better yet, delay the move until your child is older and more able to cope with the travel. Could you move between your family and your current location? A 30 -40 minute trip would be more suitable and would suit reduce your commute to your family and let them offer you more support.

Some flexibility will be needed by you both but I absolutely would not agree to his plan of four days on and four days off. The only person that suits is him and it will NOT be in your son's best interest. You have a clear need to have consistent work days as well. Be ready to explain why this doesn't work. Good luck