Ex partner wants our son 4 days of the week!

[Kimberleysmith]

My ex partner and I have separated.

To cut a very long story short, all of my family live in the Midlands and I've been living with my partner up North for 8 years. I am wanting to move back for obvious reasons; emotional support, and to be closer to my family who can help me with my almost 1 year old.

My ex partner is not happy at me wanting to move back, but what is more frustrating is, he works shifts - so four days on and then four days off, he is adamant he is entitled to have our son on his four days off?!

It doesn't matter how many times I've tried to explain this cannot happen, he will not agree to anything else. We are heading for mediation, but I'd like to know in other Mum's experience, what could be a suitable arrangement here? Would I be accommodating if I suggested two days with an over night stay?

Thank you in advance 

I wonder whether there is room for compromise here at all?
The OP's ex applies for similar job / transfer but in the town the OP wants to live to be near family. (good for OP)
This then makes it much easier for the OP to support access on a moving basis. (good for ex)
The OP's ex agrees to pay for half childcare costs if the OP needs to book them to enable her to work, whether the child is in childcare or not if it falls on his access? (good for child to live in family with more income)

Everyone thinks when they read dad wants 50/50 that he must be dad of the year! It isn't about what dad wants...it's about what is best for your lo and what works for both parents...four days on and four off to accommodate his work pattern isn't fair on you or your little one...all it says is that your ex is selfish and suiting himself...give your ex four days but days that suit you also..let him find childcare when he is working just like you will have to...refusing to support mum to a certain extent is not what I call good parenting on his behalf...we all make sacrifices and have struggles when we have children..seems your ex isn't willing to have any inconvenience to his life but has no problem inconvenicing you...

Ugh this horrible fashion now for 50/50 care - which is usually about the dad just being plain fucking awkward

It's NOT in the best interests of the child to be on some shift pattern to fit in with dad. And generally speaking, kids are better off with one secure base, not living a split life

I thank god that when I split with my youngests dad 14 years ago, this pattern wasn't a thing. He'd have wanted it purely to annoy me

I'm with you OP amd I'm sure there's a compromise to be had somewhere which isn't him demanding your son fit in with his shifts

@Weegiewtf

4 on4 off is unlikely to be a 9-5 job so is unlikely to be covered by nursery or after school care. The mother is still having to change her life, work, routine etc to fit around the ex as the four days per week will never be the same and will end up eating into some of the mothers working time. Meaning she alone has to pay 100% childcare, possibly even for days the kid isn’t in because nurseries won’t change days that easily, while the dad gets to go all Disney on the kid and have fun on his days off.

Yes 50/50 is best for the child but the mother’s needs are important here too. The mother is saying she need support, whatever form that takes is not our business. The mother then will forever be at the mercy of her ex-partner’s shifts and I can’t see how that is in any way fair.

A week on and a week off is a lot for a young child to cope with and while it may work better as the child grows up for any kid under say 10 that’s going to be really unsettling.

Why is everyone saying be grateful he wants 50/50? He’s the child’s father we should not be being grateful for him looking after his own child. It’s his legal responsibility. As an ex partner however the mother has no responsibility to fit around his life and I find it really quite controlling that this is the expectation for the mother alone

I agree with this 100%

@Terminallysleepdeprived

If you move you need to factor costs for visitation. If the dad takes you to court they can and have forced the parent that moved to fund or do all the commuting.

A child cannot have a meaningful relationship with a parent that is a 90 minute drive away.

You need to think about your child not your own wants.

Why can’t a child have a meaningful relationship with a parent that is a 90 minute drive away. That drive doesn’t have to be every day, but only twice a week, which I don’t see as unreasonable.

The OP has no support where she currently lives, which could cause major problems for her, so it would be much more sensible for her to move to be nearer her family and the support she needs. Yes, it would have to change when the baby starts school, but by then things may have changed considerably. Would her ex still want 50/50 if he doesn’t get his dc on the days he wants? Plus, why on earth should the OP agree to allow her exP to have their child on all his days off? What about her days off, it would be nigh on impossible for her to get a job that fitted in with her ex? This is supposed to be a site that gives support to women, so I cannot understand why so many people are unfairly piling on the OP!

I don't understand why the child's best interests aren't linked to the mother's best interests.

What the father wants (a. For her not to move b. To have the child 4 days out of 8 c. For these days to be changing each week) is entirely in HIS best interests not 'the child's' and it is unreasonable.

OP, go to mediation with good reasons of how this pattern is going to be difficult for you to maintain and how the lack of support (financial?) will affect you and therefore your child.

I'm gobsmacked at all the PPs suggesting that it's acceptable for a child to frequently be away from their mother for 4 days at a time. You can't be serious?!

Do what's best for you OP and he can do what's best for him. Then, you can both come to an arrangement for contact that's mutually agreeable

Dads really can't win can they? If they don't want the kids 50/50 then they're lazy Disney dads, if they do, they're just doing it to be awkward. God forbid, they might actually love their kids and want to have equal access to them. Why should being a mum trump that?

I have 50/50 with my ex and it works well. It was important that the children saw both parents equally.

@nugget396

So many people on here underestimating the importance of emotional support and the whole 'it takes a village'. OP sounds very isolated where she is currently living, which makes parenting and being the best Mum you can be very difficult

Its not fair on either side, splits seldom are and comprises have to be made

If he wants 4 on 4 off, then that can be done, but to enable OP to work full time, ex will have to go halves on full-time child care (unless op can find a 4 on 4 off that matches ex time off but the odds of that are extremely low). As it's said above, any other way is not fair.

All other costs, school, clothing, trips etc should be 50/50 as well. No maintenance should be paid to either side, and if op earns less, then she should get the child benefit

I can't see how 4 days on / 4 days off could work and I'd feel very sorry for any 1 year old subjected to such a disruptive routine. Young children need a primary carer and stable routine, argue against this all you like but it's a fact. This is not to say the other parent shouldn't be involved regularly, they should but the child's needs should come first always.

Its desperately sad that so many view 50/50 as the right approach (only approach?). All 50/50 does is satisfy usually one parent that they are getting what they are entitled to. No one thinks of the poor child who has to live between 2 homes, who feels chronically disorganised, unstable, never sure where their stuff is or if they have what they need. It's hard enough going between 2 homes every 2 weeks, let alone every few days. It is the quality not the quantity of the other parents involvement that benefits' the child not spending their life meeting their parent's need to feel they got a ''fair'' deal.

Sadly it is often only when children are older and become adults that they realise how unsettling living 50-50 has been. When they finally move into one home they can’t help but know the difference between feeling settled and constantly living in a suitcase

@CornishGem1975

Dads really can't win can they? If they don't want the kids 50/50 then they're lazy Disney dads, if they do, they're just doing it to be awkward. God forbid, they might actually love their kids and want to have equal access to them. Why should being a mum trump that?

I have 50/50 with my ex and it works well. It was important that the children saw both parents equally.

Did those days change every week?

Well 1st of all who does the primary care for the your child?

That's why a 50 % split might not be the best idea.

Secondly the best interests of the child is the consideration not the parent.

Parents don't have rights to have their children. It's the children's interests that trump.

If the primary care giver, ie the mother can't remain in the same area just to lack of support etc then it might be in the best interests of the child for the mother to move.

Also frequently ex partners who demand 50% of their child frequently use this as a form of abuse.

Children need stability and to be settled.

It's not the demands of the other parent that are paramount here.

Op obv if you could remain in the same area that is the ideal scenario for your child to have contact facilitated between the parents easily.

Be careful with mediation. If one of the parties is dominate you need a really strong mediator to stand up to that.

Think about the reason why you think your child should be with the majority of the time etc.

An hour and a half is nothing. Some people commute that everyday. You can move back home and still split the week 50/50. You can meet halfway for handovers. I wouldn't let that stop you moving, especially if you're going to be in financial difficulties if you stay.

I'd ask for set days, otherwise it's going to be difficult to organise childcare. If your ex is working on one of his days, he will have to do what everyone else does and pay for childcare. Simple really.

Or call his bluff and say he can be primary carer and you'll have EOW. It will be interactive to see how he organises his shift work around that.

I'd move before he gets an injunction to stop you. Then it's a done deal. And you can discuss whether you can make 50/50 work from your new location.

interesting

Too m

What @Weegiewtf said 100%

Fuck knows why people are saying that his suggestion would be fair. The OP would have to adhere to a random schedule which would fit entirely round the father's work and not at all around hers. It would mean she would be arranging and paying fir childcare during her time and he would have to do none of that.
There is of course an argument that 50/50 should be the starting point but that means 50% of leisure as well as work time. It's also impractical in most situations so pragmatism needs to win out over 'fairness'.

Too much talk about the "rights" of the father, not enough talk about what's best for the child.

A baby should not be away from its mother overnight. I believe some experts say under 4's should not be away overnight.

I have no support if I stay living up North. My ex partner has told me he is not supporting me.

Yes he is. He wants to have your son fifty percent of the time. He doesn't need to support you on the days your son isn't with you.

@TeenMinusTests

I wonder whether there is room for compromise here at all? The OP's ex applies for similar job / transfer but in the town the OP wants to live to be near family. (good for OP) This then makes it much easier for the OP to support access on a moving basis. (good for ex) The OP's ex agrees to pay for half childcare costs if the OP needs to book them to enable her to work, whether the child is in childcare or not if it falls on his access? (good for child to live in family with more income)

Do you honestly think that he'd consider moving?

And surely it's better for the child to be in childcare the same days every week regardless if Dad is at home or not.

Say Dads off M-Th one week, Tus-Fri the next, then Wed-Sat, that could mean the child is barely in nursery over those three week, but then when those are his working days kids never away.

Think what that does for settling the child in and friendship etc

If he wants 50/50 it needs to be a proper one where you both get weekends / days off otherwise he’ll just end up with all the fun stuff while you end up doing all the parenting. In your position I would take legal advice to hammer out an agreement that gives you days off with your kids too that will def pass through court.

@sybillalle

Too much talk about the "rights" of the father, not enough talk about what's best for the child.

A baby should not be away from its mother overnight. I believe some experts say under 4's should not be away overnight.

If the baby isn’t breastfed then courts now will be more likely to rule 50/50 (provided dad has done some parenting and isn’t abusive) as it is considered best for the child.

I don't think the EOW plan would work in practice because half the time "his" weekends would fall on days that he is working 12 hour shifts.

OP do you have paid employment lined up or are you going to be job hunting?

I think the best arrangement in the interests of the child is for mum to be the main resident parent, but going to dad for 48 hours each week timed somewhat flexibly to fit in with dad's shifts. Dad pays CM on the basis of the child being with mum 5 days out of 7, and also pays a 50% share of the cost of a nursery/childminder place for all of mum's working hours because the variable arrangement means that childcare will have to be paid for even when not needed. NB both parents can use the government scheme to pay for this from pre-tax income which makes it a lot cheaper.

Mum seeks a job with family friendly hours if possible e.g. 9-4 M-Th which would be 26 hrs a week and paying hopefully enough to make ends meet in combination with the child maintenance.

Working out the exact details and balancing things out will depend on the hours and location of Mum's employment so can't be resolved on this thread, but it is resolvable if you both put the child first.

@SinoohXaenaHide what about the mothers career? Do you honestly think mother’s shouldn’t work full time?

Would you want your daughter to have a part time job that hopefully pays enough to make ends meet? It’s such a depressing aspiration.

Yes the dad here is being selfish and bull headed. But why should the mother not have the same career and earning potential?

I can’t believe in 2021 there is still such gender bias.