Should we fire our current nanny?

[confjul]

FTM here and very confused about what to do next. We had a hard time finding a good nanny. The first one we found was at a premium price where we live. She seemed great with our baby, knew a ton of games and development stuff. However, she was a slacker. She wouldn't even pick up our baby's pacifiers from the floor and never clean a bottle or plate of the baby. Sometimes, she would even leave her plates and glasses on the kitchen counter. We fired her after 2 months.
The second one we got wasn't as good at playing games with LO and entertaining her but at least she does her duties. She has been with us for 7 months. We thought all was well but then she told us all of a sudden that she wants 30%-35% increase of her salary. We were shocked. First of all, most people told us that we are paying her way more than current market and to ask for more after being with us less than 1 year? I have seen on platforms that she is actively job hunting. I have to add that this nanny also has an attitude and I was on the point of firing her 2 months ago. I guess she sensed it and she immediately corrected her behavior. There would be small things about what I wanted her to do with LO that she just totally disregarded to my face and then she would play all innocent and dumb that she didn't understand when confronted about it.
A few days ago, we have started nanny-hunting as well and we have found 2 girls (with actual qualifications and also references) for 20% less than what we pay our current nanny. My husband wants me to fire the current girl ASAP. I am also tired of her but I am also worried for LO since she became fond of the current girl. What would you do in my place?

Nope

OP, what hourly rate are you paying? Round here it's about £12-14 net per hour, although we're in an expensive part of the country.

If you're paying market rate, I think you need to talk to the nanny about why it's not working and, if they leave, take their feedback on board for the next nanny. Otherwise the problem may repeat itself.

@BuffySummersReportingforSanity

Ps. I have heard it said that a nanny is either great with the house or great with the children, and I tend to think it's true. Pick your poison, because a nanny who is great with the children is going to be engaging with them, not ignoring them so she can polish the kitchen counters. A nanny shouldn't leave a mess and should tidy away toys and kids' dishes, etc, but she or he is not a fucking skivvy. They're a childcare professional.

where did I mention to polish kitchen counters? cleaning your plates and glasses is something standard. Also cleaning the mess after the child you are looking for. Sorry but this is getting ridiculous.

You sound difficult to work for. I suspect you’ll work through the limited pool of “nannies” in your area before you precious child starts school.

Also, nursery is going to be important for socialisation at some point.

She's obviously very unhappy with you and seeing if she can get more money to make it worth putting up with the situation. I would let her go, someone who is enjoying their job is likely to do a better job and she clearly isn't. You might want to look at your own attitude as well though.

@Derbee

You sound difficult to work for. I suspect you’ll work through the limited pool of “nannies” in your area before you precious child starts school.

Also, nursery is going to be important for socialisation at some point.

You sound like a lovely person. Have a nice day!

who left in tears - if we were so horrible, why would she cry after us? well possibly because you were her sole income, sacked her for being great with your child which showed she was good at what she was supposed to be doing, and from what it appears from your posts, sacked her with no warning. I'd be bloody upset too i9f I turned up to work one day for them to say oh you're good at what you do but sorry we want you to tidy up your plates and since you haven't done this you're fired'

What do you see as the market rate? You mention there is a limited supply of nannies in your area, do you understand that this will mean they can charge a higher rate?

@confjul

I see a lot of messages assuming we are paying her less and making her do housework. From where is this coming from? I have mentioned that she is paid more than current average market price. As for my saying girl is that she is way younger than me and with the immature behaviour she has shown, it was more a way of expressing myself than anything else. She is not a qualified nanny. The first one was studying to become one. As for her salary being above average, I had nothing against it since I wanted LO to have someone reliable long-term but now I see that this strategy clearly doesn't work. My husband wasn't happy with the pay we were giving her. I think the main problem here is the fact that where we live the vast majority of people prefer nursery to nannies so there is a big shortage of good nannies and then the ones that are on the market might take advantage of people like us who clearly don't want nurseries. My husband and I have thought about this and now that we aren't in a rush to change nannies like the first one (who left in tears - if we were so horrible, why would she cry after us?), we will interview the 2 we liked the most thoroughly and check all their references and NOT offer a wage higher than the average - it was clearly a failed strategy. Thank you all for the inputs.

The first nanny left in tears because you fired her and you took that as a good thing???

@Goldbar I did also suggest looking for a childminder instead.

'I see a lot of messages assuming we are paying her less and making her do housework. From where is this coming from?'

You said the current nanny wants a 30-35% pay rise. You also said the new nanny will work for 20% less than the current nanny earns. So, you're looking at paying the new nanny 50-55% less than the current nanny actually wants?

So either the current nanny is delusional or you're going to be massively underpaying the new nanny.

'like the first one (who left in tears - if we were so horrible, why would she cry after us?)'

I imagine because she'd just lost her job because she left a plate on the side? People do tend to cry when faced with unemployment and subsequently bills they can't pay etc. The fact that you don't understand that does suggest that you lack empathy tbh.

Wow at the thought of you firing the first one who was good with your baby. Seems like you are more concerned about the house work. I'd much rather a kind caring nanny who does a brilliant job with my children.

"The second one we got wasn't as good at playing games with LO and entertaining her but at least she does her duties"

Hahahahahahaha. I've been a nanny. Parents like you are actual bell ends. yes they should be cleaning after themselves. Have a quiet word. No, they aren't house keepers or maids, there to do cleaning etc. NANNY. NANNY. NANNY. FOR THE CHILDREN. for the love of God. Astounded at some people's priorities.

Oh OP....

I think it's probably best all round if she finds another job very soon. Good luck in your hunt for childcare that you'll be happy with

OP, nannies on MN are like cleaners. They couldn't possibly be expected to, you know, do the job they are paid for. Of course a nanny should was her own lunch dishes! Some of these responses are ridiculous. Why MN hates women who hire nannies I will never understand.

You do not sound like hard to work for at all and it often takes a while to find the right, long-term nanny for your child. This is the most important person you will ever hire, so don't feel bad about moving one from this one.

The second one we got wasn't as good at playing games with LO and entertaining her but at least she does her duties

I'm intrigued to know what her duties are if they aren't playing games with and entertaining your LO?

I'd have stuck with the first one, if she's good with the child that is all that matters. A little untidiness here and there doesn't matter, if she's doing what you employed her for. Perhaps see if you can get her back?
Or try a childminder? That may be a good compromise between nursery and nanny.

@confjul thanks, I am a nice person. The kind who understands

Paying a fair rate for a fair job
Not patronising employees by calling them “girls”
Understanding that a nanny is a nanny, and not a cleaner
Understanding that someone crying when they get fired is quite normal

As for wanting to pay a new person 50% less than you pay currently, you must know that you sound completely unreasonable?

I'm intrigued to know what her duties are if they aren't playing games with and entertaining your LO?

The same job a child minder or nursery nurse would have I imagine. Not leaving the place in a mess, picking the baby's pacifier up off the floor, putting toys and lunch dishes away, cleaning bottles for next use, cleaning up after their own lunch. It hardly sounds like the OP wanted her scrubbing toilets and cleaning windows.

I can imagine that taking on a nanny can be incredibly difficult, because you're the employer but also emotionally invested in everything.

Do you have any experience of being an employer? Or managing staff? Writing job descriptions? Building relationships? Setting expectations? And have you thought about what's expected of you in this situation? You're also clearly not a native English speaker - is there perhaps a cultural issue at play here?

I don't think you are paying her less than the market rate but she clearly isn't happy so thinks she could probably put up with the job if it paid more. Bottom line, she's not happy so ask her why then go your separate ways.

OP, mumsnet doesn’t like women who have nannies - as you’ve found out..!

Some people seem to think that all a nanny should be is sweet with the children, and who cares if the place is a tip and she has an attitude yeah? Surely your CHILD is the important thing right? Do your own housework you lazy wench! Surely you’ve got time if you have a NANNY!? Etc etc

Really hope you get sorted soon OP. It is very stressful having to be an employer and a friend. Our nanny is absolutely lovely in pretty much every way, but we’ve had some shockers and it’s just really awful to deal with.

You sound difficult and hard work and I’d consider yourself lucky if there are any nannies left for you to employ. They talk, you know. And word will get round that you’re not nice to work for.

And stop with the “girl”. It’s patronising and infantilising. She’s a woman the same as you.

@CoronaPeroni

Does FTM here mean full-time mum? If so, could it be your nannies have been intimidated by you being there all the time? If they are experienced and come with good references there is obviously something amiss.

Bugger, I thought it meant Female to Male transition. Full time mum makes more sense!

FTM in this context is usually first time mum

I'm a nanny employer of many years, so I absolutely don't hate women who hire nannies.

I do, however, have strong feeling about people who set themselves up as employers and take someone's livelihood in their hands and then don't do that job properly. Also people who look down on the nanny they employ and see her as a maid or abuse her working hours and goodwill, etc. I'm not saying OP does this but plenty of people do.

However, OP has clearly been either grossly overpaying or is now seeking to underpay. She also doesn't seem to have done due diligence when hiring, which is important, because no, a small child should not be subjected to a revolving door of carers. You should pay an appropriate market rate, screen carefully, check references very thoroughly, manage nanny professionally, which includes discussing issues as they come up and giving clear guidance.

A nanny should leave the place reasonably tidy at the end of the day, but they should not be criticised because there are plates on the counter during the day or a toy on the floor. It's unclear whether nanny #1 was actually leaving the place a mess and stuff on the floor when she finished or if she just didn't do everything instantly as she went along to OP's standards, and OP's comments do suggest an awful lot of hovering and instant judging.