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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM refusing tax free childcare

117 replies

CCS83 · 03/02/2019 15:32

Hi
So my CM who my son goes to full time is refusing to sign up to the tax free childcare account - I have offered to set the payments up so they go out a week to 10 days earlier than how I pay currently but still being refused.
My employer is phasing our vouchers and the tax free account is worth circa £200 a month to me so a massive amount to lose.
I may be wrong but I suspect her objections lie in the fact she doesn’t declare all her childminding income to HMRC. Now I’m not nieve I know it does go on but it is now having a huge effect on our finances?
My employers payroll has said most works will close vouchers soon and move everyone on to the tax free account to close the current loophole
Is threatening to pull my son unless she signs up too extreme?? We pay her more than our mortgage in fees so would be a significant drop in income for her??

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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Smoggle · 03/02/2019 15:34

If you want a provider that accepts a particular type of funding, and your current provider doesn't, then yes you will have to move.

TaimaandRanyasBestFriend · 03/02/2019 15:37

I may be wrong but I suspect her objections lie in the fact she doesn’t declare all her childminding income to HMRC.

Yep, you'd be likely wrong. There are many threads on here about why CMs won't take them any more. It's a hassle. They are not legally bound to do so and most have plenty of business without them.

It's not her fault fees are high or higher than your mortgage.

She's trying to get rid of you so threatening to pull your son out will just be doing her a favour.

If I were running a CM business I wouldn't take any of these gimmicks.

You're fooling yourself if you think she'll suffer without your custom. And completely arrogant to assume she's fiddling her taxes.

Comefromaway · 03/02/2019 15:39

That’s a lot of money to lose out on.

If I were in your situation I would definitely be looking for a childminder who is willing to sign up to the scheme.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 03/02/2019 15:44

Who says she’ll be losing out? She’ll just get a new minded. Certainly round here we don’t have any trouble filling spaces.

Incidentally, you can see my thread below for the opposite side of things and what a pain they are.

flamingofridays · 03/02/2019 15:46

If I were running a CM business I wouldn't take any of these gimmicks

Sorry, gimmicks?!
Its a simple system. She doesnt lose out what so ever or have to pay for it.

I wouldnt use a cm who made it purposely difficult for me.

Comefromaway · 03/02/2019 15:46

It’s a lot of money for the OP to lose out on. £200 a month is what it is worth to her.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 03/02/2019 15:48

Sorry I thought you meant the cm.

Comefromaway · 03/02/2019 15:48

There have been issues flamingofridays with parents/employers paying into the account and then payments to the childcare providers being delayed.

SciFiScream · 03/02/2019 15:49

Why is your employer phasing the vouchers out? You should challenge that. If you are already a member you can stay a member...

TaimaandRanyasBestFriend · 03/02/2019 15:51

Then don't, flamingo, but plenty of CM businesses don't need to sign up to the scheme to support their businesses, that's their choice. One who is refusing to sign up to it doesn't need to and any client threatening her is likely to get the door shut in their face.

flamingofridays · 03/02/2019 15:52

Maybe but its fairly new so any issues will likely get ironed out?

Also most cms get paid a month in advance so is a couple of days (prob not even that when op has said shell pay early) an issue?

flamingofridays · 03/02/2019 15:53

It is their choice but it shows theyre only after £££££.

I dont use a cm anyway, i use a nursery who are reasonable.

insancerre · 03/02/2019 15:53

She doesn’t have to accept the tax free payments
Seems like you will have to find a new childminder

icannotremember · 03/02/2019 15:53

If I were running a CM business I wouldn't take any of these gimmicks.

I may be confused so apologies in advance if so, but are you referring to Tax Free Childcare as a gimmick and saying if you were a CM you would refuse to use it? That would be a fairly poor business decision!

TaimaandRanyasBestFriend · 03/02/2019 15:54

It is an issue, flamingo, which is why some CMs and nurseries won't sign up. It's not up to them to deal with hiccups in the system, they're not obligated to do so and why would anyone sign up for extra faff when they can get by perfectly well without it.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 03/02/2019 15:54

Would it be an issue for you to receive your wage late by ‘a day or two’ without warning? I have bills to pay so I wouldn’t suit me.

TaimaandRanyasBestFriend · 03/02/2019 15:55

That would be a fairly poor business decision!

Not necessarily. In our area CMs and nurseries have long wait lists so can pick and choose their clients. It's a thing already that a lot of nurseries and CMs are not signing up for the scheme due to delays in payment and other problems.

nannynick · 03/02/2019 15:56

For parents with one child where both parents get childcare vouchers the voucher scheme can be worth more than Tax-Free Childcare. So your employer should look carefully at why they want to phase out vouchers as it could be detrimental to some of their staff.

If TFC is better for you then yes I would change to that and if that means looking for another childcare provider then so be it. Your childminder is perfectly within their rights to dictate what payment methods they accept.

flamingofridays · 03/02/2019 15:56

Well personally no a couple of days wouldn't matter to me and if i had my own business id like to think i wouldn't be down to my last £ the day before u expected my fees. But fair enough if people want to be funny about it theyre entitled to be but it is somewhat selfish and i do think generally a bad decision.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 03/02/2019 15:57

It is their choice but it shows theyre only after £££££.

Oohhhh! I thought I was doing as a favour! I forgot asking for money in return for my time and services was greedy! Tell me... do you work for free too?

Italiandreams · 03/02/2019 15:58

I’m sure they are difficult so understand childminders point of view but don’t know anyone that can afford to not save £200 a month . It’s a ridiculous situation ( much like the free hours for 3 year olds but that’s a who different thread ...) This government are brilliant at gimmicks but not at thinking through the practicalities 🙄

Hwory · 03/02/2019 15:58

It is their choice but it shows theyre only after £££££.

The CM is running a fucking business not a charity. Only after money? What a bloody shocker.

flamingofridays · 03/02/2019 15:59

Theyd still be getting the same amount if they used the TFC childcare system so hows it working for free?

Original poster

CCS83 · 03/02/2019 16:22

I might be wrong but she’s running a business - not doing it as a hobby/out of the goodness of her heart? That makes me her customer??

I have offered to pay almost 2 weeks early in case there is a delay on payments and also have said if it doesn’t work I would make up the shortfall? Still a no??

A lot of employers are closing the voucher scheme to new entrants and according to people I have spoken to this is happening all over - if I go on to have more children I wouldn’t be able to get vouchers so the account is the only way for us?

From my position all her no’s look like they are because she doesn’t want HMRC knowing what I pay her???

OP posts:

nannynick · 03/02/2019 16:28

The scheme was closed in October 2018 to new entrants, that is correct. However parents already in the scheme, so long as they do not change employer, can remain in the scheme. Having another child would not change that unless you left employment with that employer.

You are indeed her customer but that does not mean you can dictate how she runs her business. You have asked and you have given some advance payment options, she has said no. I doubt you will change her mind, so time to look for alternative care.

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