CM refusing tax free childcare

[CCS83]

Hi
So my CM who my son goes to full time is refusing to sign up to the tax free childcare account - I have offered to set the payments up so they go out a week to 10 days earlier than how I pay currently but still being refused.
My employer is phasing our vouchers and the tax free account is worth circa £200 a month to me so a massive amount to lose.
I may be wrong but I suspect her objections lie in the fact she doesn’t declare all her childminding income to HMRC. Now I’m not nieve I know it does go on but it is now having a huge effect on our finances?
My employers payroll has said most works will close vouchers soon and move everyone on to the tax free account to close the current loophole
Is threatening to pull my son unless she signs up too extreme?? We pay her more than our mortgage in fees so would be a significant drop in income for her??

"tannith well I wouldn't, am I not allowed to say that?"

You can say what you like, within reason. However, you can't really complain when Georgie responds in kind.

Gosh some snotty Child Minders are on here, hope you treat the children you care for better than you treat the parents!

it’s sad to see such strong objection by some CM on here to TFC and vouchers - without schemes likes that many of us parents wouldn’t be able to return to work and they would be out of a job!

CCS83 when the TFC started some payments took 3 months to reach settings and many are still unpredictably slow hence the resistance. Most of us do take a variety of schemes but this one is not working well at the moment so realistically the cost of supporting it could be loss of a home, would you be willing to risk not feeding or housing your family to support a political cause? Let alone when you've already lost £60 a month on one child?

@jannier i completely understand those that have payments delayed but most other people I have spoken to including a large council of CMs have said that things are much better and it’s working - I have offered to make up any money if it’s been delayed and also pay 10 days earlier.
TFC for us is the difference between paying bills or not as well but some CM on here seem so arrogant to think that people can just afford to take that kind of hit on their finances. I’m sure if I had to take my son elesewhere my CM couldn’t just fill a full time £1k a month slot overnight and I feel I’ve been more than reasonable with everything I’ve offered but it’s like she has us backed into a corner

You don’t actually need to leave the voucher scheme though and you would be barely better off on TFC. So it’s all a bit moot.

I take tax free childcare and vouchers. I also encourage parents to find out what they're entitled to. Sad to say though, some voucher schemes and HMRC seem to like to 'use' the money before passing it on to us. Some voucher schemes are excellent and I get my money on the parents pay day, as they transfer it immediately on receipt.

A parent had to pay me twice one month, because their voucher company had 'lost' their money. We tried to get it for 3 months before I finally said the parent needed to pay me and keep trying to get the voucher money sorted. There was nothing else I could do to help, because it's not my voucher account.

@alocacoc actually I’m better off on TFC - im only able to claim £143/mth in vouchers so TFC is worth more due my income

Is threatening to pull my son unless she signs up too extreme?? We pay her more than our mortgage in fees so would be a significant drop in income for her??

No it's not too extreme, of course it's better to find a provider that accepts TFC. I do see both sides as she may just not want the hassle of it. I know it causes DS's nursery a total headache. As a parent I've been using TFC for almost 2 years and get the full £2k benefit per child, so definitely worth the hassle, but in that time I've had 2 lost/failed payments to the nursery (though HMRC did offer compensation for the late fees), and a few other technical glitches.

That would be a fairly poor business decision!

Not if they had no trouble getting parents who didn't want to use the new system.

Just the same as small businesses who don't accept credit cards. They've made a business decision.

If they're busy enough without the hassle of dealing with these things, then it's not a "poor business decision" at all.

A child minder can only take a certain number of children. If they can "fill their books" with easier/simpler customers, then actually that's a really good business decision.

Ummmm , just like if parents were paying by bank transfer then ? You can’t phone the parents bank either !

No, but bank transfers are usually either instant or take just a couple of days, so you can see the money pretty quickly and take action if the parent has lied.

With these schemes operated by third parties, they can take several days, or weeks, to process the payments, so it could be a couple of weeks before the CM realises the parent has lied and that the money isn't on the way after all.

@CCS83 but you can only get up to £166 per month with TFC so it’s not s huge difference. Not worth losing reliable childcare for the sake of £23 per month!

@Alocacoc not sure you understand the systems? So £143 is deducted from my salary my employer and they send a cheque to my CM they I pay the difference every month straight into the CMs bank - so I don’t pay tax on the £143 so basically it’s worth about £30 per month.
With TFC if I pay £1000 a month into the account (the cost of my CM) then the government tops it up by 20% so £200 up to a total of £2000 per year so its worth a hell of a lot of money and effort to sign up to it!

Assuming higher rate tax payer you will get £124 in vouchers and the annual tax saving is £624. But saving doubled if both parents can get vouchers.

Still &2000 is better

@CCS83 I use TFC. It’s max £2000 per year (£500 per quarter) which is £166.67 per month. And actually they top up by 25% - so you pay £8000 over the year and they make it up to £10000.

I appreciate the actual numbers are not as directly comparable as I thought. But TFC is not £200 per month. It is still better for you though.

As a childminder I find it works well for me. Parent transfers a week before it's due. It takes 3 days to clear her side then 3 days to drop into my account. I give my parents till 10th of every month to pay in advance. My bills go out 15th so I have leeway with everything. If it's good for parents it makes good business sense.

some of us don't have employers who offer voucher systems, so 2 grand a year or nothing? Its an easy decision really!

As a result of this thread I have applied for a £1000 overdraft as a buffer for my bills in case of delayed payment. I’m not happy that I have to do that but still, I see not everyone sees things from my POV. I can’t risk not having money.

You need to be stricter with your parents Georgie - payment in advance and refuse care if there vouchers/tfc hasn't cleared into your account by the end of the month.

Just adding my bit: I am currently still waiting for a tfc payment. I send out my invoices around the 20th of the month to be paid on the last working day if the month. I am still looking after the child as the family say they have made the payment, unlike vouchers I cannot check that.

Why should I have to wait to be paid for a service I provide.

BTW, some of the comments directed at childminders on this thread are ridiculous. No we are not in it only for the money, but I do expect to be able to make a living without worrying about paying my bills. Why should I have to use my savings because a parent hasn’t paid me in our contracted date!

It's a shame these discussions have to get so heated. Ultimately neither side is unreasonable. The childminder is quite within her rights to set the terms of her business. She doesn't have to accept vouchers of any kind and it's not 'arrogant' or any of the other various insults.

The customer is also quite within her rights to reject those terms and take her business elsewhere. It's a lot of money to lose out on and totally understandable that a parent would want to be able to use tfc.

For the sake of your own peace of mind and good relations with this childminder, don't start inventing nefarious reasons why she won't sign up and don't think in terms of 'threatening' to take your child out. Have a look round for other local childminders and see if you can get a better deal elsewhere and move your child if you can.

Just get a different childminder .
Are you sure this isn't her way of letting you go ?

Why should I have to use my savings because a parent hasn’t paid me in our contracted date!

but they have, it's the system that hasn't paid you.

I find it mad that you cannot call and ask if there is any payments pending to your account!

You need to be stricter with your parents Georgie - payment in advance and refuse care if there vouchers/tfc hasn't cleared into your account by the end of the month.

This is what my CM does. It works.