CM refusing tax free childcare

[CCS83]

Hi
So my CM who my son goes to full time is refusing to sign up to the tax free childcare account - I have offered to set the payments up so they go out a week to 10 days earlier than how I pay currently but still being refused.
My employer is phasing our vouchers and the tax free account is worth circa £200 a month to me so a massive amount to lose.
I may be wrong but I suspect her objections lie in the fact she doesn’t declare all her childminding income to HMRC. Now I’m not nieve I know it does go on but it is now having a huge effect on our finances?
My employers payroll has said most works will close vouchers soon and move everyone on to the tax free account to close the current loophole
Is threatening to pull my son unless she signs up too extreme?? We pay her more than our mortgage in fees so would be a significant drop in income for her??

That makes me her customer??

And as such, any business can refuse your custom.

From my position all her no’s look like they are because she doesn’t want HMRC knowing what I pay her???

Of course they do, because you are pissed off she's not doing what you want and that she charges what you do so you assume the worst when in fact she may not want the hassle and have enough clients where she doesn't need to take it on. But that doesn't suit your agenda so you're likely to do something vindictive because she won't kowtow to you.

Likely to do something vindictive?

Like what? Save herself £200 a month like anyone would?

God forbid.

From my position all her no’s look like they are because she doesn’t want HMRC knowing what I pay her???

Not that her tax affairs are any of your fucking business, but unless you pay her in cash it's pretty obvious what amount she's being paid? No?

YANBU op... we use the childcare choices website and simply make sure we pay funds in well before month end.
The childminder recieves the full amount into her bank account in good time every month. The only difference to her is that she gets from a childcare choices account rather than our bank account.

It’s a huge amount of money you’ll lose. I really can’t understand why she won’t take these payments.

And “because I don’t want to” as an argument , whilst legally fine, seems a bit shitty when you think of the amount of lonely it’ll cost the op.

Lonely = money

Nanny - many employers won’t want the increased admin involved with running two different schemes.

My employer refused point blank to run any childcare scheme as they didn’t want the hassle.

I should have said - the agreement we have with our cm is that she’ll receive the money by month end . If for any reason this didn’t happen through the CC account (we’ve never had a problem though) wed have to pay her cash / instant bacs payment and the delayed funds would cover the next month. She’s never ever be paid late.

you dont me or my circumstances to suggest my opinion and threatening to move CM is vindictive; if you had to give up £200 a month you would soon kick off.

Tax free childcare has been a real pain for me and many of my childminding colleagues haven't signed up to it yet.

I doubt she's declaring reduced income to HMRC, because they regularly cross check amount parents say they are paying when parents are claiming certain allowances. I certainly wouldn't risk it.

If you need someone that takes tax free childcare payments, then you may need to find someone else.

I don't really understand why people hate tax free childcare. As long as you have an ofsted number a cm can set up easily.

I did have a glitch at first as the website couldn't find my cm but I called up the tax free childcare number and they answered in 2 rings and sorted it within 5 minutes. I transfer the money to the account and it takes 2 working days max and then I pay and cm receives it within 24 hours. It's co much more flexible and you can overpay so you have money in there for extra holiday care. I cannot understand why a cm wouldn't sign up as they receive the full payment like a bacs payment. With 3 dc it makes a big difference to us. Will hug cm when I see her as clearly she's a keeper

If you’ve never had a problem with it then of course you won’t understand the POV of someone who has. When you can’t pay your mortgage because your money is ‘lost in the system’ or because a parent ‘forgot’ to send it on time, then you might not be so in love with the idea.

Parents can "forget" to send it however they pay you.

Surely anyone with their own business has a contingency for people not paying on time every so often?

And as for "lost in the system" surely thats easily sorted with a phone call and proof from the parent that theyve paid?

I am in love with the idea because it saves me a significant amount of money and will continue to do so for the next 9 years.

If you can use and it (as a parent) and dont id say that was an incredibly stupid decision.

if you had to give up £200 a month you would soon kick off.

I wouldn't 'kick off' to a business provider because well, they can tell you to leave and find someone else to provide the service under your terms.

If a parent can use it and find a provider who accepts that mode of payment, crack on.

Similarly, if a business can manage just fine without accepting that mode of payment then they, too, are perfectly within their rights not to.

If I go to a business and find out they only take cash and I only have a card or my phone, then I have to find somewhere else to procure the wares or service. Kicking off will just get me, quite rightly, shown the door.

I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong here but i thought CM also use the tfc account for the 30hours free so does this also mean your cm won't be offering the 30 free hours once child is 3?

No that’s not correct Spinn

No, the schemes are different - 15 & 30 hours are funded by the council. Though lots of childminders choose not to offer funded hours too.

I use the tax free childcare and I made sure the nursery I attended was signed up when we first started.
Like you OP, I can't afford to lose out 200 quid a month. I'd start looking elsewhere.

How do the tax free vouchers cause hassle for child minders? It's a genuine question as I used them for years, they were paid out to my childminder the same day I was paid. The £243 is what she was paid, it's me who will lose out later on life with pension contributions not the childminder...
She didn't have to do anything at all, the money was paid directly into her bank account.
are people confusing vouchers with the 15-30 hours free child care (which is a completely different scheme and yes is probably a pain in the arse for them).

@ellapaella there are 2 schemes - one is the voucher scheme which is run by your employer and you can claim up to £243 per month which is taken from your salary so you don’t pay tax on it - I’m only allowed to claim £143/mth
Then there is the tax free account which is what my CM is objecting to - I basically set up an account with the government and if I pay in £1000/mth (which is what my childcare costs are currently) the government tops it up by £200! So a huge benefit it to me.
Seems like the objections on here are that it requires admin time (! Running a business requires admin!) and also that the system was late paying people (I’ve offered to pay 10 days earlier than normal in case of any delays)

I can see how frustrating it is for you. But the bottom line is she is free to accept whatever payment methods she likes. So like you might think a shop is short sighted if they don’t take credit cards becuae it is inconvenient for you, it’s just the same.

If she won’t budge you will either need to suck it up or move providers.

Ah I see @CCS83 - thanks for clarifying. I was vaguely aware a new scheme was coming in but the vouchers work so well for us I haven't looked in to it.

Fiddling her tax??? Unless you pay her in cash that is impossible as hmrc can check her bank account for transactions and will also have a record from which ever voucher company you use.

I suspect the reason she is objecting to registering with tax free childcare is due to the amount of childminders who are waiting for payments for weeks and only have the word of the parents that it has been paid. There is no way for childminders to check if the money had been sent so just have to wait for it to appear in their bank account

There is no way for childminders to check if the money had been sent can they not make a phone call ask?

Why would I want to spend my time phoning to check payments have been made? Not my responsibility - responsibility if the parents to ensure full payment is made on time.
If parents can't pay in time due to the payment method they have chosen then it seems reasonable that childminders wouldn't accept it.

We can't phone and ask if parents have sent money, because that's parents confidential information. The same as we can't phone your bank to ask if you've paid.