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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Nanny going on holiday.

96 replies

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 13:36

Hello
I will try and make this short and sweet.

I have a Nanny who takes care of my children four days a week, she's been with us around 9 months now.
She is self employed and is registered with CSSIW (I'm in Wales).
Anyway she's going on holiday for a week at the end of this month which is during the half term holidays. I will need to put my children into the school holiday club during the time she's away.
I currently receive help towards my child care costs, I think it's either 70 or 80%.
The money usually comes into my account on a Wednesday and goes directly into hers via a standing order.
She does not expect to be paid during the time she is away as she is self employed, which obviously makes things a little easier for me as I'm a single mum and money is tight, hence why I receive help.
My question is, can I use the money I receive towards my nanny's wages for the holiday club fees?
They are registered with CSSIW but I'm not sure how it works, whether or not I can use that money to pay for those fees or if I have to basically cancel my tax credits for that week until my nanny comes back.
Will I be breaking the law by doing that?
If any one can shed some light on this very confusing situation I'd really appreciate it.
Many Thanks
Sophia

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LittleNelle · 21/05/2016 13:38

Are you sure she's self-employed in this role for you? If she's coming to you 4 days a week it sounds more like employment.

Original poster

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 13:45

Hi, yes she is definitely self employed. She has her own accountant and pays her own tax and NI.
Even though she has set hours/days with me, she also nannys for a few other families on an adhoc basis.
To be honest there would be no way I could afford to employ her anyway as I need help affording her wages.
Do you know if I can use the money I receive towards her wages for the holiday club fees?
Thank you
Sophia

OP posts:

NickNacks · 21/05/2016 13:47

That's not really how self employment /employment is decided. I think you need advice from HMRC.

Original poster

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 13:54

Hi Nick, she's already done all of that months ago, way before she even met me. She's done it through HMRC. It's all perfectly legal lol.
Thanks for you're concern anyway.

OP posts:

LittleNelle · 21/05/2016 13:56

You need to check with HMRC though, not her. If HMRC don't approve your set up you will be liable. Self-employment isn't a status an individual has, it depends on the actual job - so it is specific to you.

She could well be self-employed for the adhoc jobs but HMRC could decide your job is an employed one.

NickNacks · 21/05/2016 13:59

It's you that needs to check not her. You will be the one fined.

It's quite possible that she can be self employed for her ad hoc work and employed for you. There is nothing you have said that has implied that this is 'perfectly legal' lol

Original poster

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 14:06

I don't need to check anything because I have a very good relationship with my nanny and I trust her. I know that she is self employed with her adhoc work and her job with me because she wouldn't of been able to work for me otherwise. She has checked all of this with HMRC, they said as long as she had other adhoc jobs and she declared her income from those jobs as well as mine she was classed as self employed. I have literally just spoken to her on the phone right now. She has never given me any reason not to trust her, she is very by the book. The reason I posted on here was because I wanted to know whether or not I could use the money i receive towards her wages for the holiday club fees. I don't need to check with HMRC if she is self employed, I know she is. Thank you anyway.

OP posts:

Original poster

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 14:13

I'm not here to have an argument with any one, just to get some advice.

Thank you to all who are concerned but the self employment issue is fine. She was with her last family for 3 years and had the exact same set up, like I said she is very by the book and I trust her. If any one could shed some light on my original post I'd really appreciate it. Thank you Sophia

OP posts:

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 21/05/2016 14:13

Sorry but I'm with the others, I'm pretty sure the whole 'self employed nanny' thing got stopped years ago, and you could most definitely be fined as already mentioned. Childminders are self employed, nannies aren't.

LittleNelle · 21/05/2016 14:15

OK, well you're taking a massive risk so I wish you good luck.

Balletgirlmum · 21/05/2016 14:18

I agree with the others. Her other ad hoc work may well be self employed but it definatly sounds like her work with you - regular hours determined by you- not able to send someone else in her place - should be employed.

It's not a matter of trusting her - it's a matter of you as an employer being liable.

But hey ho.

Original poster

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 14:18

I don't think I'm taking a massive risk at all, She has already checked this with HMRC months ago, all the checks have been done so what makes you all think that it's wrong? I'm very puzzled by you're comments to be honest but never mind.

OP posts:

lovelynannytobe · 21/05/2016 14:20

Yes you can claim for the club but you need to let tax credits know.
No your nanny cannot be self employed for you. Your particular set up makes you an employer and her an employee. It doesn't matter what she does for other people as she has an ad hoc arrangement with them. You will be fined if this is picked up.

Balletgirlmum · 21/05/2016 14:21

Did she tell hmrc the specific nature of her work with you?

Original poster

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 14:22

She had the exact same set up with her last family of three years and then before she started working with my family she checked everything with HMRC and there were no problems. She is the one who decides when she goes on holiday, if and when she comes in. She has set days with me but if she can't or doesn't want to come in that day there's nothing I can do about it. I don't have cover when she's away but neither would I if I used a child minder.

OP posts:

Original poster

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 14:23

Yes she's checked everything.

OP posts:

Original poster

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 14:24

Thank you to the lady who answered my questions, I appreciate it.

OP posts:

Balletgirlmum · 21/05/2016 14:25

Well on your head be it.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 21/05/2016 14:25

YOU need to check though, not leave it here as you will be the one fined.

LittleNelle · 21/05/2016 14:26

The risk is that you haven't checked with HMRC, despite you being the one who is liable for a big fine as the employer.

She could quite legitimately be registered as self-employed and be doing her own tax, that doesn't automatically make the job you are offering a self-employed one.

A builder or hairdresser could be registered as self-employed, but if they get a second job in Tesco, that job isn't self-employed too.

If your nanny is told what to do by you, has set days and hours, is required to turn up to work on time unless on leave, can't send someone else to do the job for her, then she is probably employed.

If she decides how, when and where to offer you her services, uses her own equipment, can send someone else to cover her, risks making a loss, then she is probably self-employed.

Original poster

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 14:28

The reason why she became self employed in the first place was because she couldn't find any work if she wasn't. Nanny vacancies around here are far and few between, a lot of people would rather use a child minder because it's cheaper.
The only way she could get jobs is if she became self employed.
I receive help towards her wages and if I didn't I wouldn't be able to use her so there's no way I could afford to employ her. She did all of these checks because she even started working for me just to make sure it was legal.

OP posts:

Friendofsadgirl · 21/05/2016 14:29

Sophia, this website might help with your question on childcare funding assistance.

This page might help with any doubts regarding the employment status that have been brought up by your OP.

VodkaValiumLattePlease · 21/05/2016 14:30

www.nannytax.co.uk/employment-law/self-employment

To be self employed she would have to work for three or more employers AND be registered with ofsted

Original poster

Sophia101 · 21/05/2016 14:31

Hi there, that is super helpful. Thanks so much.

OP posts:

Artandco · 21/05/2016 14:32

Can your nanny decide today not to come in Monday's or Wednesday's from now on or to start 2 hours later? If she can't without loosing her job she is employed by you

She is only self employed if she decides when to work, what days, what hours, how much she is paid, whether She gets a pay rise, where she wants to work etc.

If she came in Monday and said 'hey it's £15 an hr now, and I now finish at 2.10pm, have 2 hr break, and start again, would that be ok? Would that work for you? I assume not. I assume you need her to work the hours she does.

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